Why we don't want a mag limit grandfather clause (Read 7418 times)

changemyoil66

Why we don't want a mag limit grandfather clause
« on: June 16, 2020, 09:26:33 AM »
Last week a man was arrested in CA for having a 15rd rifle mag.  PD came to his home looking for his brother who has a warrant.  His brother wasn't home, but they searched the law abiding citizens room and found his rifle with (1) 15rd mag. He told PD that he bought it during "freedom week".  They didn't care and arrested him.  Confiscated ALL his guns and he went to jail.  A few days ago, the DA declined to press charges.

In case you don't know, all rifle mags in CA have to be 10rds or less, unless you bought them prior to the mag law (grandfather clause).  Last year, a CA judge ruled this to be unconstitutional so everyone bought standard capacity mags and more.  After about a week, the same judge changed his ruling and the law was back in effect.  BUT because it has a grandfather clause, any mags bought during this 1 week (freedom week), are allowed to be possessed.  That's what this guy was claiming, but PD didn't care.  They arrested anyways.  It now cost him money to get an attorney, IDK if he still has his job cause he did go to jail, and time to get all his guns back. 

This is why we need to fight any mag limit bill, even though it has a grandfather clause.  I've heard a bunch of guys say they don't care because they have lots of mags so they're OK with the grandfather clause.

Drakiir84

Re: Why we don't want a mag limit grandfather clause
« Reply #1 on: June 16, 2020, 09:35:02 AM »
Last week a man was arrested in CA for having a 15rd rifle mag.  PD came to his home looking for his brother who has a warrant.  His brother wasn't home, but they searched the law abiding citizens room and found his rifle with (1) 15rd mag. He told PD that he bought it during "freedom week".  They didn't care and arrested him.  Confiscated ALL his guns and he went to jail.  A few days ago, the DA declined to press charges.

In case you don't know, all rifle mags in CA have to be 10rds or less, unless you bought them prior to the mag law (grandfather clause).  Last year, a CA judge ruled this to be unconstitutional so everyone bought standard capacity mags and more.  After about a week, the same judge changed his ruling and the law was back in effect.  BUT because it has a grandfather clause, any mags bought during this 1 week (freedom week), are allowed to be possessed.  That's what this guy was claiming, but PD didn't care.  They arrested anyways.  It now cost him money to get an attorney, IDK if he still has his job cause he did go to jail, and time to get all his guns back. 

This is why we need to fight any mag limit bill, even though it has a grandfather clause.  I've heard a bunch of guys say they don't care because they have lots of mags so they're OK with the grandfather clause.

No one should be good with a grandfather clause.  There are just so many Hawaii Fudds that are content with continually bending over for our garbage elected officials and Leftist police chiefs.
"The rifle is a weapon. Let there be no mistake about that. It is a tool of power, and thus dependent completely upon the moral stature of its user. It is equally useful in securing meat for the table, destroying group enemies on the battlefield, and resisting tyranny. In fact, it is the only means of resisting tyranny, since a citizenry armed with rifles simply cannot be tyrannized."
-Jeff Cooper

Flapp_Jackson

Re: Why we don't want a mag limit grandfather clause
« Reply #2 on: June 16, 2020, 10:09:13 AM »
The only thing a grandfather clause does is neuter the law altogether.

I mean, if you ban 30rd mags and also grandfather existing mags (which I bet is much larger than the number of weapons they fit), what have you accomplished?  A ban isn't a ban if it permits existing contraband to exist.   :wacko:

Although, according to that lawmaker in Michigan(?), once we shoot all the grandfather mags at the range, they'll be empty and no longer of any use.    :rofl: :rofl: :rofl:

Then there's this:

https://www.usnews.com/news/best-states/colorado/articles/2019-11-12/despite-ban-high-capacity-magazines-still-sold-in-colorado

The mag capacity limit laws are useless.  They are yet another gun law with which to charge gun owners and make us all disarmed felons for life.
The reasonable man adapts himself to the world;
the unreasonable one persists in trying to adapt the world to himself.
Therefore, all progress depends on the unreasonable man.
-- George Bernard Shaw

drck1000

Re: Why we don't want a mag limit grandfather clause
« Reply #3 on: June 16, 2020, 10:14:54 AM »
The mag capacity laws are just another ask for the world approach of "art of negotiation" where concession to anything less (grandfather clause) looks appealing in face of the initial proposal.  The leg upped that this year with the limited time windows and short notice on testimony.  I was able to make it out to the capitol a few times and I was quite impressed with the turnout.  Agree need to prepare for next round coming next year, including preparing for testimony. 

6716J

Re: Why we don't want a mag limit grandfather clause
« Reply #4 on: June 16, 2020, 10:54:26 AM »
Grandfather clauses are useless. How do you prove that you had it previously? While we are supposed to be innocent until proven guilty, in the case of these infringing firearms laws you're guilty unless you can prove you're innocent. Oh you don't have a proof of purchase for those? GUILTY. No date of manufacture. GUILTY. Did you register (F&$K you anyway) them during the amnesty time period? GUILTY.

We need to stop giving an inch. We already know that we are fighting an uphill battle for our rights, but we need to stop these "strategic" surrenders. The answer should be NO!

I'd rather have a bottle in front of me, than a frontal lobotomy.

aieahound

Re: Why we don't want a mag limit grandfather clause
« Reply #5 on: June 16, 2020, 11:43:18 AM »
Should I take a picture of my stack of mags and a daily paper with date just in case?  :crazy:
(Like proof of life)

ren

Re: Why we don't want a mag limit grandfather clause
« Reply #6 on: June 16, 2020, 12:05:26 PM »
there is no data to make bans like this effective - just feelings.
Deeds Not Words

6716J

Re: Why we don't want a mag limit grandfather clause
« Reply #7 on: June 16, 2020, 12:07:36 PM »
there is no data to make bans like this effective - just feelings.

"FEELINGS" are EVERYTHING!!!!!! Truth and facts are for losers
I'd rather have a bottle in front of me, than a frontal lobotomy.

changemyoil66

Re: Why we don't want a mag limit grandfather clause
« Reply #8 on: June 16, 2020, 12:15:35 PM »
Should I take a picture of my stack of mags and a daily paper with date just in case?  :crazy:
(Like proof of life)

The idea of registering each mag was being floated around.

changemyoil66

Re: Why we don't want a mag limit grandfather clause
« Reply #9 on: June 16, 2020, 12:20:52 PM »
.  I was able to make it out to the capitol a few times and I was quite impressed with the turnout.  Agree need to prepare for next round coming next year, including preparing for testimony.

Prior to this year, many hearings had only about 5 or so pro 2a people and 8-12 MDA.  This year it was about 30-70 (depending on the day) and 4ish MDA.  We still need more.  It was good to see a crowded hall way full of pro 2a people.  So crowded that even the most anti 2a law maker had to walk around a proud American with tourettes standing in his way to access the door.

changemyoil66

Re: Why we don't want a mag limit grandfather clause
« Reply #10 on: June 16, 2020, 12:22:19 PM »
No one should be good with a grandfather clause.  There are just so many Hawaii Fudds that are content with continually bending over for our garbage elected officials and Leftist police chiefs.

P80 law will also be back next year.  HPD spent the time to have one of their own buy and assemble one.  I gave an estimate it cost $600 to do, and was corrected by Maj. Nelson that they spent $800.  Bet the cop who built it got to keep it after, so he Gucci'd it out.

macsak

Re: Why we don't want a mag limit grandfather clause
« Reply #11 on: June 16, 2020, 12:25:17 PM »
Prior to this year, many hearings had only about 5 or so pro 2a people and 8-12 MDA.  This year it was about 30-70 (depending on the day) and 4ish MDA.  We still need more.  It was good to see a crowded hall way full of pro 2a people.  So crowded that even the most anti 2a law maker had to walk around a proud American with tourettes standing in his way to access the door.

heads

drck1000

Re: Why we don't want a mag limit grandfather clause
« Reply #12 on: June 16, 2020, 12:25:32 PM »
"FEELINGS" are EVERYTHING!!!!!! Truth and facts are for losers
There are at least two posters who would agree with ya. Basing their arguments on emotion and forsaking rational thought.

 :rofl:

zippz

Re: Why we don't want a mag limit grandfather clause
« Reply #13 on: June 16, 2020, 05:52:57 PM »
There's 2 reasons to push for the grandfather clause:
1.  We don't have to spend $10k for an injunction in the California mag ban lawsuit.
2.  In case SCOTUS doesn't take the mag ban lawsuit or we lose which is possible especially if Trump loses the election.  We may not see those magazines for the rest of our lives.

One downside to grandfathering is many firearm owners will feel satisfied they can keep the mags and not help to stop or overturn the law.

changemyoil66

Re: Why we don't want a mag limit grandfather clause
« Reply #14 on: June 16, 2020, 06:14:01 PM »
There's 2 reasons to push for the grandfather clause:
1.  We don't have to spend $10k for an injunction in the California mag ban lawsuit.
2.  In case SCOTUS doesn't take the mag ban lawsuit or we lose which is possible especially if Trump loses the election.  We may not see those magazines for the rest of our lives.

One downside to grandfathering is many firearm owners will feel satisfied they can keep the mags and not help to stop or overturn the law.
I know a good handful of guys willing to chip in at least $100 each. Im sure we can raise the funds.

Sent from my SM-G950U using Tapatalk

Bota-CS1

Re: Why we don't want a mag limit grandfather clause
« Reply #15 on: June 16, 2020, 07:42:09 PM »
There's 2 reasons to push for the grandfather clause:
1.  We don't have to spend $10k for an injunction in the California mag ban lawsuit.
2.  In case SCOTUS doesn't take the mag ban lawsuit or we lose which is possible especially if Trump loses the election.  We may not see those magazines for the rest of our lives.

One downside to grandfathering is many firearm owners will feel satisfied they can keep the mags and not help to stop or overturn the law.

Every city that was burning on the mainland over these past few weeks is a reason why magazine limits should be fought at both the local and national level.  New York, Atlanta, Houston, LA, Seattle, Phoenix, Dallas, Austin, Miami, and Louisville.  I'm sure most have seen the video from Seattle from a couple of weeks ago: 
When the proverbial SHTF and the police can't get to you because they are told to stand down by a mayor who wants to give the "protestors" their "summer of love", you are on your own.  We literally saw the return of the legendary "Rooftop Koreans" during the civil unrest in major cities - business owners who were forced to protect their businesses by themselves when the police weren't able to.

Some may think/say that this kind of violence would/could never happen in Hawaii, but I would argue to the contrary.  I point to the protests surrounding TMT and Maunakea.  It has been a long time since I've seen Hawaiians literally take to the streets and roads in the numbers they did during that period. Had there been the slightest miscalculation by either side, I believe the situation could have easily have gotten out of hand.
No one is coming, it’s up to us.

Legislation should never be about depriving law abiding citizens of something, but rather taking those things away from criminals.

hvybarrels

Re: Why we don't want a mag limit grandfather clause
« Reply #16 on: June 17, 2020, 02:35:07 PM »
Some may think/say that this kind of violence would/could never happen in Hawaii, but I would argue to the contrary.  I point to the protests surrounding TMT and Maunakea.  It has been a long time since I've seen Hawaiians literally take to the streets and roads in the numbers they did during that period. Had there been the slightest miscalculation by either side, I believe the situation could have easily have gotten out of hand.

That is a complete misrepresentation based on your political bias. Kapu Aloha is nearly identical to the MLK and Ghandi tactic of NVR. They want the cops to beat them up so that they can put it on the news and raise greater attention for their cause. Authentic grassroots movements should not be in the business of tearing each other down. We all share a similar uphill battle against a larger and more powerful enemy. Instead of being jealous because they are better organized maybe we should try and learn some lessons from them. I doubt there are many here who are willing to get arrested for gun rights, but figuring out the Hawaiian strategy for getting more people involved would be a step in the right direction.

The real at-risk population for civil unrest in Hawaii is not defined by ethnicity, but poverty. Those who have nothing to lose will be the first to lose it, and the panic shopping shows that the larger community is well aware how quickly things can fall apart once the supplies dry up. The increase in coordinated violent crime before the pandemic demonstrates there are plenty of opportunists who would quickly go to work if they felt like they could get away with it.
Pretending to be offended does not make you a good person.

Kuleana

Re: Why we don't want a mag limit grandfather clause
« Reply #17 on: June 17, 2020, 04:08:29 PM »
I point to the protests surrounding TMT and Maunakea.  It has been a long time since I've seen Hawaiians literally take to the streets and roads in the numbers they did during that period. Had there been the slightest miscalculation by either side, I believe the situation could have easily have gotten out of hand.

Very observant.   ;)

hvybarrels

Re: Why we don't want a mag limit grandfather clause
« Reply #18 on: June 19, 2020, 12:04:16 AM »
Very observant.   ;)

Are you an agent provocateur? Sometimes it seems like you are trying to drive a wedge between the Hawaiian Sovereignty and Gun Rights communities. You do not appear to know very much about either side and it often seems like the content of your posts can be whittled down to America = Bad followed by throwing more gas on the flame war.

Pretending to be offended does not make you a good person.

Inspector

Re: Why we don't want a mag limit grandfather clause
« Reply #19 on: June 19, 2020, 03:26:59 AM »
Having lived through the CA magazine ban threats and then having them acquiesce to agreeing to the grandfather clause I would say fight this tooth and nail. The first magazine proposal had no grandfather clause. The grandfather clause was added later because the push back was huge. Once the grandfather clause was put it, the push back diminished greatly. I’m guessing because people felt that they have theirs and don’t care about the future. Especially with Nevada and Arizona right next door it was easy to go buy high capacity mags and bring them back. How could CA prove they were made after a certain date? Then came the legislation that all mags sold in CA have to have a date of manufacture on them. I don’t recall if this ever past or not?

My personal experience in CA with the AR bans is even worse. When the AR ban first went into effect the rules that outlawed them were so vague and and stupid, everyone just reconfigured their AR to comply with the law and AR’s continued to be bought and sold. Then, Feinstein et al started banning particular brand and model AR’s. With any of the named guns purchased before the law went into effect to be grandfathered in. I bought one of those guns that were supposed to be grandfathered in before the law went into effect. But then, they either passed another bit of legislation with this certain clause slipped in or it may have been in the original legislation and not revealed until after it went into effect, that if you wanted to keep you grandfathered in AR, you had to register it. I don’t remember exactly how it went down. Practically no one registered their guns. But what this did was to create a whole lot of AR’s that could no longer be bought or sold in CA unless it had been registered. There was also a cutoff date for registering the AR, otherwise you could be punished by law if you were caught in possession of one of these AR’s that was not registered. This, in essence, made criminals out of innocent Americans trying to own an AR. And when that law basically failed from stopping the sales of new AR’s because the manufacturers just renamed their models, even more restrictive laws were passed. All with grandfather clauses. If my memory is correct, I think CA even attempted to make registering all new sales of high capacity magazines mandatory. Meaning the mag manufacturers would once again have to stamp them with a date of manufacture and a serial number. But I don’t think that passed. Eventually, the end game is going to be this. Every AR, including those that have been grandfathered in will have to be registered if you want to keep it. If it never gets registered you cannot legally sell it and you cannot legally own it. The same will happen with magazines if you don’t push back.

CA has also passed other laws. For all manufacturers of firearms to submit (I believe 6 of) every model of their firearms to be tested for safety before they can be sold in CA. Each model consists of one caliber. For instance, a Ruger revolver that is chambered in 5 different calibers is each a model in itself. So if Ruger has to submit 6 revolvers for testing, it really needs to submit 30 revolvers for testing if it wants to sell every chambering of that revolver, ie 6 revolvers per chambering times 5 chamberings. BTW, they don’t get these guns back. But now this has created another issue. There are models of Ruger revolvers that are no longer made and Ruger would be stupid to submit them for safety testing if they don’t sell them anymore. Meaning this particular model is not on the CA safety tested list. Ruger made the SP101 revolver in 9mm many years ago and stopped making them after a while. My nephew inherited one of these guns. He went to a local gun shop and told them he wanted to sell it. And the FFL said he couldn’t buy it because it was not on the CA list of Rugers that had been safety tested. He said my nephew could legally own it. And he said my nephew couldn’t sell it legally in CA to anyone. The best the FFL could do is to put it up on the Internet for my nephew and sell it out of state for him. Now, Ruger has since started making the SP101 in 9mm again. My nephew has not explored whether Ruger has had this revolver safety tested for sale in CA or not. And if they have, does this also apply to the older models or not. I would think that if any mechanical changes have been made to this model since it was discontinued then it would not apply.

If they can force manufacture dates and serial numbers placed on mags you will see more banning with confiscation and ownership punishment being the end game.

Bottom line is NEVER ACCEPT any restrictive laws even if there is a grandfather clause. Because one day the grandfather clause will be expired and you will be turned into a criminal if you don’t register or permanently modify or dispose of that magazine. Whatever the law is going to be.
« Last Edit: June 19, 2020, 03:32:49 AM by Inspector »
SCIENCE THAT CAN’T BE QUESTIONED IS PROPAGANDA!!!