protect yourself? No. Not allowed.
https://anthonyblogan.com/activist-prosecutor-targets-st-louis-couple-over-self-defense-case/

protect yourself? No. Not allowed.
https://anthonyblogan.com/activist-prosecutor-targets-st-louis-couple-over-self-defense-case/

IMO, they made the mistake of getting photographed holding the firearms in the general direction of the street.  I would have just brought the guns to the front of the house and locked the doors.  They had the option to stay indoors increasing their safety from the mob.  They chose to stand outside.  Poor tactical decision, as well as poor legal strategy. 

While they had a legal right to stand their ground, they postured themselves in a way that escalated the situation.  I believe that was poor judgement, but it doesn't rise to the level of having legal action brought against them.  They never fired at the crowd -- not even into the air.  They just made it clear they were armed and refused to be victims. 

Where are the arrests of the protestors who destroyed the homeowners' gate and ignored the "No Trespassing" signs?  The entire mob was on PRIVATE PROPERTY, not a public street.  What about the people shouting terroristic threats at the couple?  There are laws to protect the homeowners, too.  Where is THEIR justice?

IMO, they made the mistake of getting photographed holding the firearms in the general direction of the street.  I would have just brought the guns to the front of the house and locked the doors.  They had the option to stay indoors increasing their safety from the mob.  They chose to stand outside.  Poor tactical decision, as well as poor legal strategy. 

While they had a legal right to stand their ground, they postured themselves in a way that escalated the situation.  I believe that was poor judgement, but it doesn't rise to the level of having legal action brought against them.  They never fired at the crowd -- not even into the air.  They just made it clear they were armed and refused to be victims. 

Where are the arrests of the protestors who destroyed the homeowners' gate and ignored the "No Trespassing" signs?  The entire mob was on PRIVATE PROPERTY, not a public street.  What about the people shouting terroristic threats at the couple?  There are laws to protect the homeowners, too.  Where is THEIR justice?

You pretty much nailed this.

IMO, they made the mistake of getting photographed holding the firearms in the general direction of the street.  I would have just brought the guns to the front of the house and locked the doors.  They had the option to stay indoors increasing their safety from the mob.  They chose to stand outside.  Poor tactical decision, as well as poor legal strategy. 

While they had a legal right to stand their ground, they postured themselves in a way that escalated the situation.  I believe that was poor judgement, but it doesn't rise to the level of having legal action brought against them.  They never fired at the crowd -- not even into the air.  They just made it clear they were armed and refused to be victims. 

Where are the arrests of the protestors who destroyed the homeowners' gate and ignored the "No Trespassing" signs?  The entire mob was on PRIVATE PROPERTY, not a public street.  What about the people shouting terroristic threats at the couple?  There are laws to protect the homeowners, too.  Where is THEIR justice?

While I generally agree with what you said I do think that a certain amount of context needs to be taken into account. These people watched these “protesters” (rioters) burn their city to the ground. I don’t believe that locking the doors and staying inside would be a better “tactical” decision. What if they had set the house on fire while they were locked inside? Why give up ANY ground to these rioters? It’s not the homeowners job to de escalate in that instance IMO.

Again under normal circumstances I would agree with you, But taking into account these people had just burned buildings down I would have come outside as well.

Forgetting
Called the "private security" company that is HIRED to watch that "Private Property/Street who did not show up"   
Called the St. Louis PD who did not show up to protect them, but showed up days later to confiscate their firearms

While I generally agree with what you said I do think that a certain amount of context needs to be taken into account. These people watched these “protesters” (rioters) burn their city to the ground. I don’t believe that locking the doors and staying inside would be a better “tactical” decision. What if they had set the house on fire while they were locked inside? Why give up ANY ground to these rioters? It’s not the homeowners job to de escalate in that instance IMO.

Again under normal circumstances I would agree with you, But taking into account these people had just burned buildings down I would have come outside as well.

What evidence do you have that this particular mob ("these people") burned anything down?  Assuming these are the exact same people who destroyed buildings and looted businesses is like saying all gun owners are responsible for mass shooters who also own guns.

You're right.  Context is important.  And in today's social media driven, narrative generating environment where video is king, it would have been better for them to record the mob from inside the house (and have arms at the ready).  If anybody tried to burn the house, they become fair game, and it'll all be on video.

Mob situations are fluid.  Anyone could have tried to do anything.  The homeowners can use that as their defense.  But the events as they occurred in reality are the context -- not what happened in another place, at another time, and by another group of people. 

over 50 offers to buy the couple new guns...

No comments on the way the wife brandished the gun ?
I would’ve been scared shitless if I saw a person handle a firearm like that pointed toward me.
Finger on the trigger, pointing at and basically fanning the crowd.
She was like the the chick in the diner in Pulp Fiction. ( Calm down honey bunny)

I didn’t see any video of anyone on their property (and apparently a lot of their neighbors hate them. Not relevant but mentioning it.)

Come out slung or in holster but hands on the guns, no problem. Even pointed downward at the ready no problem. Show of force. Escalating but show of force. That’s all OK.
Go all Honey Bunny on a bunch of people in the street, even a private street, that’s the start of stupid games.
Maybe the crowd started the stupid games but someone was gonna get a stupid prize. 
Luckily, no one did.

Where were the cops and the security company if called is really  though.
This shit show should’ve been shut down immediately in a gated community on a private street.

Tactically, I would’ve put the wife on the high ground on the balcony with the rifle and would’ve gone out the front with a holstered pistol.
Korean style. (Not racist. Reference to L.A. riots)

Not a fan of the seizures though.
Red flag law?   

What evidence do you have that this particular mob ("these people") burned anything down?  Assuming these are the exact same people who destroyed buildings and looted businesses is like saying all gun owners are responsible for mass shooters who also own guns.

You're right.  Context is important.  And in today's social media driven, narrative generating environment where video is king, it would have been better for them to record the mob from inside the house (and have arms at the ready).  If anybody tried to burn the house, they become fair game, and it'll all be on video.

Mob situations are fluid.  Anyone could have tried to do anything.  The homeowners can use that as their defense.  But the events as they occurred in reality are the context -- not what happened in another place, at another time, and by another group of people.

So let’s say Anti TMT people rioted and looted in Honolulu burning buildings down while blowing conch shells and waving the Hawaiian flag. Then a week later a group of obvious Hawaiians, waving flags, and blowing conch shells come ON to your property you wouldn’t immediately draw a connection between the two? Does it have to be the exact same group for you to feel like this mob may do the exact same thing?

If something like that happened to me I would not have the personal awareness to take into consideration the “social media driven, narrative generating environment where video is king”. Not that I disagree with that because you are right in hindsight it would have been better “politically” had they just stayed hidden.

I mean your not wrong, and like I said, I generally agree with what you said. I just don’t understand why a lot of people, especially 2A people, are criticizing this couple. Did they look stupid? Yes. But the focus should be on the idiots who busted into the private community.

This is a good example of the sign of the times: That prosecutor Kimberly Gardner or whatever worried about how she is perceived in today's times instead of doing the right thing.

Scary shit.

But in my opinion that armed couple did some stupid things.  The Koreans did it right when the mob confronted them.

This is a good example of the sign of the times: That prosecutor Kimberly Gardner or whatever worried about how she is perceived in today's times instead of doing the right thing.

Scary shit.

But in my opinion that armed couple did some stupid things.  The Koreans did it right when the mob confronted them.

+1 on that

.
. I just don’t understand why a lot of people, especially 2A people, are criticizing this couple. Did they look stupid? Yes. But the focus should be on the idiots who busted into the private community.

How about focusing on firearm safety and tactics ?
And the possible legal ramifications.
Seems like we’d learn more than focusing on the idiots who busted into a private community and trespassed on a private street.
That’s already a given.
Seems kinda peaceful, maybe loud, but possible riot as they busted through the community gate and entered private community property, but not your private property.
How would you approach it as a responsible firearm owner ?

Side note: In Hawaii, we’re already fawked as they would need to be committing a felony that includes bodily harm or imminent bodily harm while on your property to be able to pull a firearm and shoot. We can’t protect our personal property including our homes or stores. Our Castle Doctrine sucks.and HRA supported it.

So let’s say Anti TMT people rioted and looted in Honolulu burning buildings down while blowing conch shells and waving the Hawaiian flag. Then a week later a group of obvious Hawaiians, waving flags, and blowing conch shells come ON to your property you wouldn’t immediately draw a connection between the two? Does it have to be the exact same group for you to feel like this mob may do the exact same thing?

If something like that happened to me I would not have the personal awareness to take into consideration the “social media driven, narrative generating environment where video is king”. Not that I disagree with that because you are right in hindsight it would have been better “politically” had they just stayed hidden.

I mean your not wrong, and like I said, I generally agree with what you said. I just don’t understand why a lot of people, especially 2A people, are criticizing this couple. Did they look stupid? Yes. But the focus should be on the idiots who busted into the private community.

How I feel would be based solely on my assessment of the situation at my house.

I'm not sure whether you've ever taken a professional self defense class, but the factors involved in pleading self defense include that you were in fear for your life or others (family in this instance), and that in your judgment deadly force was appropriate for the level of threat.  The decision to use deadly force has to be based on the facts in that incident and not on what your mindset was given recent events.

If you're ready to blow away anyone harassing you and waving an inverted Hawaiian flag, then your defensive mindset sucks. If a "bunch of Hawaiians" came onto my property uninvited for any reason, I'd have a Glock in one hand and my cell dialing 911 in the other.  I'd leave the phone line open for the 911 system to record the encounter, too (something else I was taught in training).

As for cameras, if you're calling 911 (as you ought to be), then you have a video camera in your hand.  I also have surveillance all over the front of my house with 24x7 continuous recording. 

If you wait until you need something (guns, ammo, cameras, food, water, ...), it's already too late.

At least since theyre lawyers, i hope they will fight the charges setting precedent. They do not want to be disbarred or spend any time in prison.

Sent from my SM-G950U using Tapatalk

Missouri supposed to be pretty big about Castle Doctrine, and gun rights.

but that Kimberly Gardner is going full retard on the virtue signalling and SJW merit badge.   

Missouri supposed to be pretty big about Castle Doctrine, and gun rights.

but that Kimberly Gardner is going full retard on the virtue signalling and SJW merit badge.   

That's the other thing.The political climate in your location when it comes to self defense might warrant a bit of self restraint, or at least planning ahead.

My mom always told me, if I ever kill someone trying to break in, make sure to drag him inside before calling the Cops.   

That's why the 911 call and open line is good.  It records and preserves a record of what you said and when you fired.  Not much left to the "liberal" imagination.

This is a good example of the sign of the times: That prosecutor Kimberly Gardner or whatever worried about how she is perceived in today's times instead of doing the right thing.

Scary shit.

But in my opinion that armed couple did some stupid things.  The Koreans did it right when the mob confronted them.

Kimberly Gardner is funded by George Soros and has released every rioter

Situations vary a lot depending where you live.  In my case, cell phone reception is extremely poor and I have to be in WiFi range to make calls.  A 45 min police response time would be extremely fast, equivalent to a 2-3 minute Oahu time.  Neighbors are too far away and blocked by 20+ feet tall trees to see what is going on on my property.  Hearing gunshots, even at night, is not out of the ordinary and the other night at 9PM, I shot 5 cane toads with my 22LR pistol. I am sure anyone within a 1/3 of a mile could hear it. (There are about 10 houses in that range of me) Nobody or the police came to see what was going on.  Back of my property is forest land with a lot of hungry wild pigs.  I also have a backhoe and a Bandit 95 wood chipper.  People around me all own guns and are MYOB types.

It is like that in many areas of the Big Island, except for owning a backhoe and a chipper. 

No comments on the way the wife brandished the gun ?
I would’ve been scared shitless if I saw a person handle a firearm like that pointed toward me.

SNIP

Why are you on another person's property uninvited? 

A question that all should be asking themselves if faced in that situation.  If that person is not supposed to be there, then it's on them. . . JMO

And I don't think most people would notice the trigger finger placement.  Just the gun.  But yeah, I did notice that.  And no, I wouldn't be scared shitless in that situation because my a$$ wouldn't be anywhere near there. . .

Why are you on another person's property uninvited? 

A question that all should be asking themselves if faced in that situation.  If that person is not supposed to be there, then it's on them. . . JMO

Technically they were on another communities property (not a persons) Based on the videos. Private nonetheless.
Hence the police and private security, if the community had it, should have been all over this.

  And no, I wouldn't be scared shitless in that situation because my a$$ wouldn't be anywhere near there. . .

 
Gotta tip my hat to that response.
Me neither.
But that lady went all Honey Bunny.
They should take up the gun shops offer of a free AR PLUS training.

https://www.yahoo.com/news/gun-toting-st-louis-couple-040100252.html

Anyone know what the reason for confiscation was ?
Can they seize your guns do to an ongoing investigation?

"Seized as evidence from the residence was a Colt, semi-automatic, .223 caliber rifle," the statement said.

The department declined to provide further details.

The pistol was given to the first lawyer the couple contacted, said the second lawyer they have retained.  It wan't in the house when the search was conducted.

https://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/police-seize-rifle-st-louis-couple-who-pulled-guns-black-n1233583