Trump tweeted to delay the election (Read 7033 times)

eyeeatingfish

Trump tweeted to delay the election
« on: August 02, 2020, 10:02:21 PM »
If you haven't heard, Trump suggested delaying the election over concerns about security of mail in voting. Here is his Tweet:
"With Universal Mail-In Voting (not Absentee Voting, which is good), 2020 will be the most INACCURATE & FRAUDULENT Election in history. It will be a great embarrassment to the USA. Delay the Election until people can properly, securely and safely vote???"

According to the constitution, the president has no powers to change the day of the election, only congress can do that. But that's not the issue that's bugging me here. The real problem is that he would make such a statement. That is the type of statement you would say as a dictator comes to power. This should cause concern for any real conservative who fears government abuse. I know someone will say that it was just a joke, or just trolling the left, or he was "just asking questions" but this is not something he should be saying, not in this context.

Does Trump have intentions of becoming a dictator? I don't know his heart but I would guess not, nonetheless it is the thought process, or lack thereof, that would lead him to say such a thing that bothers me.

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2020/jul/30/trump-election-delay-distraction-tweet-economic-figures

ren

Deeds Not Words

Flapp_Jackson

Re: Trump tweeted to delay the election
« Reply #2 on: August 02, 2020, 11:24:07 PM »
If you haven't heard, Trump suggested delaying the election over concerns about security of mail in voting. Here is his Tweet:
"With Universal Mail-In Voting (not Absentee Voting, which is good), 2020 will be the most INACCURATE & FRAUDULENT Election in history. It will be a great embarrassment to the USA. Delay the Election until people can properly, securely and safely vote???"

According to the constitution, the president has no powers to change the day of the election, only congress can do that. But that's not the issue that's bugging me here. The real problem is that he would make such a statement. That is the type of statement you would say as a dictator comes to power. This should cause concern for any real conservative who fears government abuse. I know someone will say that it was just a joke, or just trolling the left, or he was "just asking questions" but this is not something he should be saying, not in this context.

Does Trump have intentions of becoming a dictator? I don't know his heart but I would guess not, nonetheless it is the thought process, or lack thereof, that would lead him to say such a thing that bothers me.

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2020/jul/30/trump-election-delay-distraction-tweet-economic-figures

LOL!

Trump tossed this tidbit out for one reason: to force the MSM and Congress to actually discuss the problems with 100% mail-in voting.

Hook,

Line,

and Sinker!

 :rofl:   :thumbsup:
The reasonable man adapts himself to the world;
the unreasonable one persists in trying to adapt the world to himself.
Therefore, all progress depends on the unreasonable man.
-- George Bernard Shaw

bass monkey

Re: Trump tweeted to delay the election
« Reply #3 on: August 03, 2020, 10:37:36 PM »
Trump is playing 4D chess.

Next will be requiring ID to vote,  just like how the banks ask you to remove your mask.

eyeeatingfish

Re: Trump tweeted to delay the election
« Reply #4 on: August 04, 2020, 10:27:11 PM »
LOL!

Trump tossed this tidbit out for one reason: to force the MSM and Congress to actually discuss the problems with 100% mail-in voting.

Hook,

Line,

and Sinker!

 :rofl:   :thumbsup:

Yeah right. We have been having mail in voting for over 150 years and Trump is the only one to have thought about security concerns. Of course there are security concerns with mail in voting as there are unique concerns to electronic voting machines and any voting process but nothing in Trump's statement suggested any hint at a comprehensive discussion of voter security or even any sort of genuine concern.

It sounds more like Trump is afraid he might lose the election and is preconditioning his followers to throw a fit in the event he loses. If Obama had talked about delaying the election you would have been all over that but Trump does it and you rush up to defend him. 

And it isn't just because I don't like Trump, it is because I don't like any steps towards a dictatorial government. I defended Trump when he made his joke about a 3rd term so don't try to twist it into some anti Trump BS.

Flapp_Jackson

Re: Trump tweeted to delay the election
« Reply #5 on: August 04, 2020, 11:50:15 PM »
Yeah right. We have been having mail in voting for over 150 years and Trump is the only one to have thought about security concerns. Of course there are security concerns with mail in voting as there are unique concerns to electronic voting machines and any voting process but nothing in Trump's statement suggested any hint at a comprehensive discussion of voter security or even any sort of genuine concern.

It sounds more like Trump is afraid he might lose the election and is preconditioning his followers to throw a fit in the event he loses. If Obama had talked about delaying the election you would have been all over that but Trump does it and you rush up to defend him. 

And it isn't just because I don't like Trump, it is because I don't like any steps towards a dictatorial government. I defended Trump when he made his joke about a 3rd term so don't try to twist it into some anti Trump BS.

WRONG AGAIN.

Look up the difference between ABSENTEE BALLOTS vs. the 100% MAIL-IN VOTING issue.  Different animals.

You hate Trump.  You admit it often -- just like now.  Admitting it doesn't give you a pass for posting biased, anti-Trump propaganda. 

"Dictatorial government?"  LOL!!!!   Have you even paid attention to the coup in Congress? 

I guess you're okay with asking Congress to do something that's very difficult and has lots of moving parts -- all in a very short amount of time?  Just like the Dems did in their primaries?

Sad.

Thousands of New York’s primary ballots not counted because of technicalities

https://www.washingtonexaminer.com/politics/thousands-of-new-yorks-primary-ballots-not-counted-because-of-technicalities


The Democratic primary has a legitimacy problem

https://www.vox.com/2020/2/4/21122346/iowa-caucus-results-2020-legitimacy


Millions of Democratic votes were lost in the primaries. Is this the fix?

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2020/mar/11/ranked-choice-voting-us-primary-elections-washington
The reasonable man adapts himself to the world;
the unreasonable one persists in trying to adapt the world to himself.
Therefore, all progress depends on the unreasonable man.
-- George Bernard Shaw

eyeeatingfish

Re: Trump tweeted to delay the election
« Reply #6 on: August 05, 2020, 09:35:24 PM »
Look up the difference between ABSENTEE BALLOTS vs. the 100% MAIL-IN VOTING issue.  Different animals.

And what is the big difference? The scale is larger but how are the mechanics and the security concerns that different?



Quote
You hate Trump.  You admit it often -- just like now.  Admitting it doesn't give you a pass for posting biased, anti-Trump propaganda. 

WRONG AGAIN!

Quote
"Dictatorial government?"  LOL!!!!   Have you even paid attention to the coup in Congress? 

WRONG!

Quote
I guess you're okay with asking Congress to do something that's very difficult and has lots of moving parts -- all in a very short amount of time?  Just like the Dems did in their primaries?
Sad.

It's congress' job, not the president's. But I guess the constitutionality doesn't bother you. Sad.



Quote
Thousands of New York’s primary ballots not counted because of technicalities[/size]

https://www.washingtonexaminer.com/politics/thousands-of-new-yorks-primary-ballots-not-counted-because-of-technicalities


Quote
The Democratic primary has a legitimacy problem[/size]

https://www.vox.com/2020/2/4/21122346/iowa-caucus-results-2020-legitimacy

This is criticism of the caucus system and has nothing to do with mail in voting. Yet we didn't even have a caucus here for republicans.


Quote
https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2020/mar/11/ranked-choice-voting-us-primary-elections-washington

This article covers an issue raised by early voting, this is not an argument against mail in voting.

Do you even read the articles you post or just post headlines you think sound good?


Look, no one is saying this mail in voting is going to be without its hurdles but it isn't Trump's job to call for a delay in an election that could potentially replace him. This is the type of thing he just says to fan the flames of his supporters so if he loses he can say "see look" and try to undermine the results. Trump isn't stupid, he knows what he is doing. And republicans know that mail in voting makes it easier for certain groups of people to vote who would more likely vote democrat. They are playing the smart game, not the honest game.

Flapp_Jackson

Re: Trump tweeted to delay the election
« Reply #7 on: August 05, 2020, 10:32:28 PM »
And what is the big difference? The scale is larger but how are the mechanics and the security concerns that different?

You answered your own question.  The system is not capable of the massive increase in volume -- millions of mailings in a 2-4 week span of time, all required to be postmarked or delivered by a deadline. Assuming they made it, and made it on time, then they need PEOPLE to open and count the ballots.  Not something the states are staffed or funded to do.

WRONG AGAIN!

WRONG!

It's congress' job, not the president's. But I guess the constitutionality doesn't bother you. Sad.




This is criticism of the caucus system and has nothing to do with mail in voting. Yet we didn't even have a caucus here for republicans.


This article covers an issue raised by early voting, this is not an argument against mail in voting.

Do you even read the articles you post or just post headlines you think sound good?


Look, no one is saying this mail in voting is going to be without its hurdles but it isn't Trump's job to call for a delay in an election that could potentially replace him. This is the type of thing he just says to fan the flames of his supporters so if he loses he can say "see look" and try to undermine the results. Trump isn't stupid, he knows what he is doing. And republicans know that mail in voting makes it easier for certain groups of people to vote who would more likely vote democrat. They are playing the smart game, not the honest game.

Republicans know that fraud REGARDLESS OF PARTY AFFILIATION happens.  Now you and the rest of the Liberals want to multiply that fraud potential by millions of ballots?  Many ballots are left in trash cans next to apartment mailboxes. People see the envelopes and think "Junk" or "Not voting" and toss it in the closest can.  How many of those ballots will it take to swing a close election if one or two people gather them out of the trash and mail them in?

Signatures are not a foolproof method of determining legitimacy.  If the apartment manager or other employee there has access to rental agreements, they have access to signatures they can copy.  Wouldn't be that hard to come close enough to fool a minimum wage ballot counter.

Then there's the "ballot harvesting'.  Let's say 500 registered voters decide to not go to the polls that day.  That's 500 votes that could have been cast and might have mattered in the results.  Now, let's say a Democrat van pulls up to a housing area the week ballots are hitting mailboxes.  They go door to door asking the voters to fill out the ballots and sign them. The ballots are then carried to a drop off location.  Now there are 500 more ballots from TARGETED AREAS that are going to possibly decide one or more close elections.  The people doing the harvesting are doing this to artificially increase "turn out." 

Now imagine one van full of those harvesters pull over and run down a list of registered voters (available online) and put the ballots they collected from an opposing party in trash bags.  They aren't actually poll workers, and they aren't the post office.  But, here they have control over 500 ballots.  Well, 375 after they toss the ones from Republican voters.

This is just one scenario based on many of the reported incidences of similar actions by people working for both major parties.

If we don't have safeguards in place AND TESTED, these gaps in voting security will invite rampant fraud and gaming of the system.  That's not ensuring each person has a chance to vote.  It's ensuring the party with the most harvesters wins.
The reasonable man adapts himself to the world;
the unreasonable one persists in trying to adapt the world to himself.
Therefore, all progress depends on the unreasonable man.
-- George Bernard Shaw

eyeeatingfish

Re: Trump tweeted to delay the election
« Reply #8 on: August 08, 2020, 10:14:12 AM »
Republicans know that fraud REGARDLESS OF PARTY AFFILIATION happens.  Now you and the rest of the Liberals want to multiply that fraud potential by millions of ballots?  Many ballots are left in trash cans next to apartment mailboxes. People see the envelopes and think "Junk" or "Not voting" and toss it in the closest can.  How many of those ballots will it take to swing a close election if one or two people gather them out of the trash and mail them in?

Signatures are not a foolproof method of determining legitimacy.  If the apartment manager or other employee there has access to rental agreements, they have access to signatures they can copy.  Wouldn't be that hard to come close enough to fool a minimum wage ballot counter.

Then there's the "ballot harvesting'.  Let's say 500 registered voters decide to not go to the polls that day.  That's 500 votes that could have been cast and might have mattered in the results.  Now, let's say a Democrat van pulls up to a housing area the week ballots are hitting mailboxes.  They go door to door asking the voters to fill out the ballots and sign them. The ballots are then carried to a drop off location.  Now there are 500 more ballots from TARGETED AREAS that are going to possibly decide one or more close elections.  The people doing the harvesting are doing this to artificially increase "turn out." 

Now imagine one van full of those harvesters pull over and run down a list of registered voters (available online) and put the ballots they collected from an opposing party in trash bags.  They aren't actually poll workers, and they aren't the post office.  But, here they have control over 500 ballots.  Well, 375 after they toss the ones from Republican voters.

This is just one scenario based on many of the reported incidences of similar actions by people working for both major parties.

If we don't have safeguards in place AND TESTED, these gaps in voting security will invite rampant fraud and gaming of the system.  That's not ensuring each person has a chance to vote.  It's ensuring the party with the most harvesters wins.

I think the post office can handle. Plus many states have had ballot boxes where people can drive by and deposit the ballot in a collection box so it skips the mail system.

Ballot harvesting is legal. Nothing wrong with encouraging people to vote and helping them do so. Does it change the numbers compared to how they would have been had no-one helped them? Sure, but is that any reason to complain? Not really, out voter turnout is not very good, shouldn't we want a more involved citizenry? Plus we can always just go target republican neighborhoods and get them to vote as well.

I too have considered a number of vulnerabilities to mail in voting and safeguards should be taken at all levels. So far though we don't have evidence of any widespread voter fraud though. Cases here and there but not widespread voter fraud.

Are signatures foolproof? Nope. So should we stop letting soldiers vote in elections when they are deployed? All of the objections you raise would suggest we should stop absentee voting entirely.

Flapp_Jackson

Re: Trump tweeted to delay the election
« Reply #9 on: August 08, 2020, 02:25:38 PM »
I think the post office can handle. Plus many states have had ballot boxes where people can drive by and deposit the ballot in a collection box so it skips the mail system.

Ballot harvesting is legal. Nothing wrong with encouraging people to vote and helping them do so. Does it change the numbers compared to how they would have been had no-one helped them? Sure, but is that any reason to complain? Not really, out voter turnout is not very good, shouldn't we want a more involved citizenry? Plus we can always just go target republican neighborhoods and get them to vote as well.

I too have considered a number of vulnerabilities to mail in voting and safeguards should be taken at all levels. So far though we don't have evidence of any widespread voter fraud though. Cases here and there but not widespread voter fraud.

Are signatures foolproof? Nope. So should we stop letting soldiers vote in elections when they are deployed? All of the objections you raise would suggest we should stop absentee voting entirely.

Based on what information?

The facts state otherwise:

USPS Fails Mail-In Ballot Test

https://pjmedia.com/news-and-politics/rick-moran/2020/07/25/usps-fails-mail-in-ballot-test-n697455


America Is Going To Vote by Mail. We're Not Ready.

https://reason.com/2020/08/06/america-is-going-to-vote-by-mail-were-not-ready/


28 Million Mail-In Ballots Went Missing in Last Four Elections

https://www.realclearpolitics.com/articles/2020/04/24/28_million_mail-in_ballots_went_missing_in_last_four_elections_143033.html#!



Remember the Obamacare Website roll out?  And the ACA itself that RAISED premiums instead of lowering them as PROMISED?

How about the Impeachment Trial?

Russian Collusion Special Investigation?

Democrats don't seem to have the brains to come up with winnable ideas on a large scale.
The reasonable man adapts himself to the world;
the unreasonable one persists in trying to adapt the world to himself.
Therefore, all progress depends on the unreasonable man.
-- George Bernard Shaw

TastesLikeMetal

Re: Trump tweeted to delay the election
« Reply #10 on: August 08, 2020, 02:32:43 PM »
https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/president-pelosi-election-delayed/

Per the Constitution, the sitting president must vacate office when the term ends at noon on Jan. 20 of the given year.

It’s true that the speaker of the house is next in the line of succession after the president and vice president. Some trolled Trump by pointing out that fact, as Trump has a vitriolic relationship with Pelosi, the California Democrat who currently holds that seat. After the house speaker, the next in line would be the Senate president pro-tempore, said Edward Foley, an election law expert at Ohio State University, in a phone interview.

But all 435 members of the House, including Pelosi, and a total of 35 senators are up for reelection in 2020. The remaining 65 senators would be majority Democrats.

So delaying the election wouldn’t necessarily mean Trump stays in office past the end of his term, and it wouldn’t necessarily mean Pelosi would assume the office of president. But it would also raise the likelihood that the senator who does assume office would be selected by the remaining sitting senators, who would be majority Democrats.

Flapp_Jackson

Re: Trump tweeted to delay the election
« Reply #11 on: August 08, 2020, 02:41:28 PM »
https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/president-pelosi-election-delayed/

Per the Constitution, the sitting president must vacate office when the term ends at noon on Jan. 20 of the given year.

It’s true that the speaker of the house is next in the line of succession after the president and vice president. Some trolled Trump by pointing out that fact, as Trump has a vitriolic relationship with Pelosi, the California Democrat who currently holds that seat. After the house speaker, the next in line would be the Senate president pro-tempore, said Edward Foley, an election law expert at Ohio State University, in a phone interview.

But all 435 members of the House, including Pelosi, and a total of 35 senators are up for reelection in 2020. The remaining 65 senators would be majority Democrats.

So delaying the election wouldn’t necessarily mean Trump stays in office past the end of his term, and it wouldn’t necessarily mean Pelosi would assume the office of president. But it would also raise the likelihood that the senator who does assume office would be selected by the remaining sitting senators, who would be majority Democrats.

If the electoral college fails to select a winner for any reason, then the task falls to the House and Senate -- in which case, Trump will be 99% assured of winning.

No "succession" involved.

The Left doesn't want to talk about the actual scenario to be played out if the states fail to elect a winner, because that means Trump wins.  They only want to publicize the scenarios that might defeat Trump.

No surprise.
The reasonable man adapts himself to the world;
the unreasonable one persists in trying to adapt the world to himself.
Therefore, all progress depends on the unreasonable man.
-- George Bernard Shaw

eyeeatingfish

Re: Trump tweeted to delay the election
« Reply #12 on: August 11, 2020, 08:47:43 PM »
Based on what information?

The facts state otherwise:

USPS Fails Mail-In Ballot Test

https://pjmedia.com/news-and-politics/rick-moran/2020/07/25/usps-fails-mail-in-ballot-test-n697455


America Is Going To Vote by Mail. We're Not Ready.

https://reason.com/2020/08/06/america-is-going-to-vote-by-mail-were-not-ready/


28 Million Mail-In Ballots Went Missing in Last Four Elections

https://www.realclearpolitics.com/articles/2020/04/24/28_million_mail-in_ballots_went_missing_in_last_four_elections_143033.html#!



Remember the Obamacare Website roll out?  And the ACA itself that RAISED premiums instead of lowering them as PROMISED?

How about the Impeachment Trial?

Russian Collusion Special Investigation?

Democrats don't seem to have the brains to come up with winnable ideas on a large scale.

You didn't answer my question though. Should we prevent deployed soldiers and their families from voting since there are all these problems with mail in voting?

Flapp_Jackson

Re: Trump tweeted to delay the election
« Reply #13 on: August 11, 2020, 09:51:47 PM »
You didn't answer my question though. Should we prevent deployed soldiers and their families from voting since there are all these problems with mail in voting?

The answer is, we continue as we have been:  use ABSENTEE BALLOTS for people who are ..... well .... absent on election day.

Different than 100% mail-in voting from home.

But, you keep spitting out those strawmen!   :rofl:
The reasonable man adapts himself to the world;
the unreasonable one persists in trying to adapt the world to himself.
Therefore, all progress depends on the unreasonable man.
-- George Bernard Shaw

eyeeatingfish

Re: Trump tweeted to delay the election
« Reply #14 on: August 14, 2020, 08:44:58 PM »
The answer is, we continue as we have been:  use ABSENTEE BALLOTS for people who are ..... well .... absent on election day.

Different than 100% mail-in voting from home.

But, you keep spitting out those strawmen!   :rofl:
\

Not a strawman at all. Most of the problems you point out also apply to absentee ballots.

Flapp_Jackson

Re: Trump tweeted to delay the election
« Reply #15 on: August 15, 2020, 02:38:44 PM »
\

Not a strawman at all. Most of the problems you point out also apply to absentee ballots.

WRONG!!

Absentee ballots are REQUESTED by the voters.  You have to request the ballot, it gets mailed to you, you fill it out and you send it back. 

Compare that with a state sending out millions of ballots to all registered voters without any attempt to contact the voters ahead of time.  People who've moved -- some to other states, who've died, or who've been incarcerated would be having ballots delivered to whatever address the elections records have on file.

California has millions of ILLEGAL ALIENS on their voter registration roles.

This story is from JUNE 2020.  Do you really think the country is prepared for a fair and protected election process via universal mail-in ballots?

Get clue.

Calif. Begins Removing 5 Million Inactive Voters on Its Rolls

https://www.realclearpolitics.com/articles/2019/06/20/calif_begins_removing_5_million_inactive_voters_on_its_rolls__140602.html#!
The reasonable man adapts himself to the world;
the unreasonable one persists in trying to adapt the world to himself.
Therefore, all progress depends on the unreasonable man.
-- George Bernard Shaw

eyeeatingfish

Re: Trump tweeted to delay the election
« Reply #16 on: August 19, 2020, 08:54:38 PM »
WRONG!!

Absentee ballots are REQUESTED by the voters.  You have to request the ballot, it gets mailed to you, you fill it out and you send it back. 

Compare that with a state sending out millions of ballots to all registered voters without any attempt to contact the voters ahead of time.  People who've moved -- some to other states, who've died, or who've been incarcerated would be having ballots delivered to whatever address the elections records have on file.

California has millions of ILLEGAL ALIENS on their voter registration roles.

This story is from JUNE 2020.  Do you really think the country is prepared for a fair and protected election process via universal mail-in ballots?

Get clue.

Calif. Begins Removing 5 Million Inactive Voters on Its Rolls

https://www.realclearpolitics.com/articles/2019/06/20/calif_begins_removing_5_million_inactive_voters_on_its_rolls__140602.html#!

WRONG!

Refer back to some of the articles you posted above. One was about ballots thrown out because of technical issues. These technical issues remain the same whether normal absentee ballots or mail in only ballots.

Note that I never said complete mail in ballot systems don't face any additional difficulties, I only pointed out that some of the security issues you point out do apply to even absentee voting.

Don't call me wrong and then fail to prove it.

Flapp_Jackson

Re: Trump tweeted to delay the election
« Reply #17 on: August 19, 2020, 09:01:51 PM »
WRONG!

Refer back to some of the articles you posted above. One was about ballots thrown out because of technical issues. These technical issues remain the same whether normal absentee ballots or mail in only ballots.

Note that I never said complete mail in ballot systems don't face any additional difficulties, I only pointed out that some of the security issues you point out do apply to even absentee voting.

Don't call me wrong and then fail to prove it.

Democrats in the House want to give the Post Office $25 BILLION to spend between now and November to gear up for the election, for which they want 100% mail in balloting.

So, on top of that being too short a time, we'll waste $25B we don't have to boot!

Dems are claiming Trump is stealing mailboxes and mail trucks.

You are really on the wrong side of this issue (as usual).
The reasonable man adapts himself to the world;
the unreasonable one persists in trying to adapt the world to himself.
Therefore, all progress depends on the unreasonable man.
-- George Bernard Shaw

eyeeatingfish

Re: Trump tweeted to delay the election
« Reply #18 on: August 19, 2020, 09:17:06 PM »
Democrats in the House want to give the Post Office $25 BILLION to spend between now and November to gear up for the election, for which they want 100% mail in balloting.

So, on top of that being too short a time, we'll waste $25B we don't have to boot!

Dems are claiming Trump is stealing mailboxes and mail trucks.

You are really on the wrong side of this issue (as usual).

There you go with your non sequitur arguments again. I don't think polling places should be closed and we should all be forced to vote by mail. I think we should still be able to vote in person.

I don't know what happens if covid spreads too much and there are not enough workers to man all the polling sites however that is a separate issue.

Flapp_Jackson

Re: Trump tweeted to delay the election
« Reply #19 on: August 19, 2020, 09:20:07 PM »
There you go with your non sequitur arguments again. I don't think polling places should be closed and we should all be forced to vote by mail. I think we should still be able to vote in person.

I don't know what happens if covid spreads too much and there are not enough workers to man all the polling sites however that is a separate issue.

Nope.  Not even an "issue".

We just need to make them all wear T-Shirts on their faces. 

 :rofl: :rofl: :rofl:
The reasonable man adapts himself to the world;
the unreasonable one persists in trying to adapt the world to himself.
Therefore, all progress depends on the unreasonable man.
-- George Bernard Shaw