It's a f*cking law now... today! woohoo! (Read 1239 times)

punaperson

It's a f*cking law now... today! woohoo!
« on: September 16, 2020, 05:11:39 PM »
Today! Doncha love this f*ckin' place?

I can't bring myself to look up the rest of them (I'll have to leave that listing to someone more tolerant of total bullsh*t)... first one I looked up:

HB2744 HD1 SD2   

Measure Title:   RELATING TO GUN VIOLENCE PREVENTION.
Report Title:   Gun Violence and Violent Crimes Commission; Firearms; Ghost Guns; Registration
Description:   Establishes the gun violence and violent crimes commission. Requires reports to the Legislature. Makes it a class C felony to purchase, manufacture, or otherwise obtain firearm parts for the purpose of assembling a firearm having no serial number. Amends certain requirements relating to firearms registration. (SD2)

9/16/2020   H   Became law without the Governor's signature, Act 074, 09/15/2020, (Gov. Msg. No. 1184).
9/16/2020   S   Became law without the Governor's signature, Act 074, 09/15/2020, (Gov. Msg. No. 1184).

hvybarrels

  • Trade Count: (+4)
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3289
  • Total likes: 633
  • board waxed - powder dry
  • Referrals: 0
    • View Profile
Re: It's a f*cking law now... today! woohoo!
« Reply #1 on: September 16, 2020, 07:55:43 PM »
As I recall there is also a gun violence committee being formed through that bill as well, because now that the state has run out of money it is a great time to pay a bunch of academics and authoritarians to research a problem that does not exist.

changemyoil66

Re: It's a f*cking law now... today! woohoo!
« Reply #2 on: September 16, 2020, 08:00:09 PM »
Ill bet the pro2a person on the committe will be a fudd.

"I support the 2a and have a gun myself, but..."

Sent from my SM-G950U using Tapatalk

punaperson

Re: It's a f*cking law now... today! woohoo!
« Reply #3 on: September 16, 2020, 10:00:12 PM »
Ill bet the pro2a person on the committe will be a fudd.
Really?! You think they're going to label someone on the commission "pro2a"? I thought they gave up that pretense long ago.

If that is the case, then the name of the commission should be changed from "Gun Violence and Violent Crimes Commission" to "Gun Violence, Life-Saving Gun Self-Defense, and Violent Crimes Commission." I mean, they wouldn't want to have it be all one-sided, would they? You know, consider all the costs and none of the benefits... that just wouldn't be "right". And I'm sure the goal of the "commission" will be to dig deeply into all the data and come to an objective conclusion about firearms. I mean, this is Hawaii... land of rigorous scientific intellectual inquiry... you know, like we see with all the virus "restrictions" that change every month.(I wrote mayor Lyin' Harry Kim and Civil Defense and told them I thought their new gathering size restrictions of 10 public, 25 sports practice and 50 sports competition were highly likely to result in a huge number of deaths, as I had it on very good authority that the only safe limit numbers were 9, 24 and 49, but that I was willing to look at their scientific studies leading them to their conclusions... surprisingly, I haven't heard a word from them and it's been over a month. Go figure. But I'm sure the "Gun Violence Commission" will be far more forthcoming with their research.  :rofl:)

Brystont1

Re: It's a f*cking law now... today! woohoo!
« Reply #4 on: September 16, 2020, 10:03:05 PM »
Ill bet the pro2a person on the committe will be a fudd.

"I support the 2a and have a gun myself, but..."

Sent from my SM-G950U using Tapatalk

I hate fudds more than anti-gunners.

Flapp_Jackson

Re: It's a f*cking law now... today! woohoo!
« Reply #5 on: September 16, 2020, 10:37:02 PM »
We need to petition for a new requirement that new gun laws must include a study that specifies the specific problem/s the law solves. 

All we ever seem to get is some ambiguous BS in the bill, like:

Quote
The ease with which ghost guns may be obtained defeats the intent of the State's otherwise strict firearm permitting and registration laws. 
It is these laws that have helped Hawaii to achieve the lowest gun violence death rate in the nation.

I'd like to see THE EVIDENCE that Hawaii's strict firearm and permitting laws "helped Hawai achieve the lowest gun violence rate in the nation."

I've never seen anything showing a direct cause and effect relationship between permits & registrations and low gun violence rates.  In fact, the opposite has been shown in studies and in real life examples.

For instance, the total rate of murder in Honolulu is 3.23 per 100,000.  The rate in Austin, TX, is 2.57.  That includes murder and non-negligent manslaughter.

Austin has NO waiting period for gun purchases, NO permit requirements (except for concealed carry), and NO firearm registration system.  They also allow purchase of NFA items when legally acquired through the ATF approval process.

Also, when you restrict guns through banning certain types, limiting mag capacities, etc, you diminish the ability of the average citizen to protect themselves and their homes, which can cause an increase in crime.  Or, as some like to say, restricting firearms only makes a safer working environment for criminals.

I picked Austin because the population size is similar to Honolulu:  Austin:  971,949  ... Honolulu:  990,384.  Those numbers are based on the 2009 US Census stats.


Quote
A Harvard Study titled “Would Banning Firearms Reduce Murder and Suicide?” looks at figures for “intentional deaths”
throughout continental Europe and juxtaposes them with the U.S. to show that more gun control does not necessarily
lead to lower death rates or violent crime.


https://www.ammoland.com/2013/08/harvard-study-no-correlation-between-gun-control-less-violent-crime/
Surely Not Everybody Was Kung Fu Fighting.

6716J

Re: It's a f*cking law now... today! woohoo!
« Reply #6 on: January 12, 2021, 10:11:45 AM »
If this ends up going to court with these being a part, can we go back and fight this law with standing?

Alan Beck posted this ATF response to Californias suit to make 80% a firearm
https://pdfhost.io/v/abMIjQnLJ_80_percent_case_Defederal_government_replypdf.pdf?fbclid=IwAR2wpBSw5xnALbMUGm_-VU410UyMfCd5ittoggGxBUFF-gD-BuhuslK7SaI

a receiver blank is not “readily” converted to expel a projectile by an explosion.  Dictionary  definitions  are  virtually  unanimous  that  “readily”  means  something  that  can  be  done  “quickly,” “without difficulty,” and “without delay.”  READILY, Webster’s New World Dictionary of the American Language 1182 (2d ed. 1970).3  But such a conversion when the receiver is blank or un-machined is neither easy, quick, nor “readily” performed.  Instead, the conversion requires specialized tools and specialized skill.  See, e.g., Shawn J. Nelson, Unfinished Lower Receivers, 63 U.S. Attorney’s Bulletin  No.  6  at  44-49  (Nov.  2015),  available  at:  https://go.usa.gov/x7pP3 (hereinafter,  “U.S.  Attorney’s Bulletin”).  The tools include multiple drill bits strong enough to drill aluminum or polymer(or whatever hard substrate material that forms the receiver blank), along with lubricants to reduce heat and prevent the drill bits from melting.  But those are not the only tools needed.  Once the necessary holes have been drilled, specialized tools, such as end mills4,  must be used to excavate the cavity to house  the  trigger  and  fire  control  mechanism.   See  id.  47.    These  necessary  tools  are  beyond  the  “common household tools” that Plaintiffs repeatedly characterize as sufficient to complete this detailed work.  See Pls.’ Opp., at 1, 5, 21,

I do love all the responses from the ATF for a change

I'd rather have a bottle in front of me, than a frontal lobotomy.

eyeeatingfish

Re: It's a f*cking law now... today! woohoo!
« Reply #7 on: January 13, 2021, 08:18:08 PM »
How would they prove intent?

6716J

Re: It's a f*cking law now... today! woohoo!
« Reply #8 on: January 14, 2021, 09:12:05 AM »
How would they prove intent?

That is the lynch pin of the prosecution

Hillary didn't INTEND to commit a crime, so the FBI said she didn't commit one

But just buying an "80%" doesn't make it a firearm.

I can intend to go to home depot to buy everything to make a firearm OR I can buy an "80%" AR just with the intent to use as a paperweight
I'd rather have a bottle in front of me, than a frontal lobotomy.

eyeeatingfish

Re: It's a f*cking law now... today! woohoo!
« Reply #9 on: January 17, 2021, 09:23:58 PM »
That is the lynch pin of the prosecution

Hillary didn't INTEND to commit a crime, so the FBI said she didn't commit one

But just buying an "80%" doesn't make it a firearm.

I can intend to go to home depot to buy everything to make a firearm OR I can buy an "80%" AR just with the intent to use as a paperweight

That is why I am not that worried about the law even though I am not thrilled either.
The person would have to basically admit they are doing this for the purpose of making a gun without a serial number.

I think if they arrested someone for illegal sale or illegal possession of the gun then this might be sort of a tacked on charge.

6716J

Re: It's a f*cking law now... today! woohoo!
« Reply #10 on: January 18, 2021, 11:04:39 AM »
It's funny how the law directly contradicts itself..

QUOTE
SECTION 3.  Chapter 134, Hawaii Revised Statutes, is amended by adding a new section to part I to be appropriately designated and to read as follows:

     "§134-    Manufacturing, purchasing, or obtaining firearm parts to assemble a firearm having no serial number; penalty.  (a)  A person who is not licensed to manufacture a firearm under section 134-31, or who is not a dealer licensed by the United States Department of Justice, shall not, for the purpose of assembling a firearm, purchase, produce with a three-dimensional printer, or otherwise obtain separately, or as part of a kit:"

If my purpose is to make a paperweight then it's ok

SECTION 4.  Section 134-1, Hawaii Revised Statutes, is amended by adding two new definitions to be appropriately inserted and to read as follows:

     ""Assembly" means the fabrication of a firearm or the fitting together of component parts to construct a firearm.

     "Firearm receiver" means the part of a firearm that provides housing for the firearm's internal components, including a hammer, bolt, breechblock, action, or firing mechanism.  "Firearm receiver" includes any object or part that is not a firearm frame or receiver in finished form but that is designed or intended to be used for that purpose and may readily be made into a firearm frame or receiver through milling or other means."

OR is a big word in legal terms. Just because something is designed for something, doesn't mean it's intended for it

SECTION 5.  Section 134-3, Hawaii Revised Statutes, is amended by amending subsections (a) through (d) to read as follows:

(d)  Registration shall not be required for:

     (1)  Any device that is designed to fire loose black powder or that is a firearm manufactured before 1899;

    (2)  Any device not designed to fire or made incapable of being readily restored to a firing condition; or

     (3)  All unserviceable firearms and destructive devices registered with the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, [and] Firearms, and Explosives of the United States Department of Justice pursuant to Title 27, Code of Federal Regulations."

Legally speaking, the "80%" is not designed to fire. It is 100% incapable of firing any type of projectile

Also the ATF is agreeing that making a firearm is not easily or readily accomplished
Alan Beck posted this ATF response to Californias suit to make 80% a firearm
https://pdfhost.io/v/abMIjQnLJ_80_percent_case_Defederal_government_replypdf.pdf?fbclid=IwAR2wpBSw5xnALbMUGm_-VU410UyMfCd5ittoggGxBUFF-gD-BuhuslK7SaI

a receiver blank is not “readily” converted to expel a projectile by an explosion.  Dictionary  definitions  are  virtually  unanimous  that  “readily”  means  something  that  can  be  done  “quickly,” “without difficulty,” and “without delay.”  READILY, Webster’s New World Dictionary of the American Language 1182 (2d ed. 1970).3  But such a conversion when the receiver is blank or un-machined is neither easy, quick, nor “readily” performed.  Instead, the conversion requires specialized tools and specialized skill.  See, e.g., Shawn J. Nelson, Unfinished Lower Receivers, 63 U.S. Attorney’s Bulletin  No.  6  at  44-49  (Nov.  2015),  available  at:  https://go.usa.gov/x7pP3 (hereinafter,  “U.S.  Attorney’s Bulletin”).  The tools include multiple drill bits strong enough to drill aluminum or polymer(or whatever hard substrate material that forms the receiver blank), along with lubricants to reduce heat and prevent the drill bits from melting.  But those are not the only tools needed.  Once the necessary holes have been drilled, specialized tools, such as end mills4,  must be used to excavate the cavity to house  the  trigger  and  fire  control  mechanism.   See  id.  47.    These  necessary  tools  are  beyond  the  “common household tools” that Plaintiffs repeatedly characterize as sufficient to complete this detailed work.  See Pls.’ Opp., at 1, 5, 21,

I do love all the responses from the ATF for a change

So based on this, if stores are selling "80%" items as paperweights, then it's legal. That is how the law is written. Technicalities are fun.
I'd rather have a bottle in front of me, than a frontal lobotomy.