Zeroing in AR (Read 15918 times)

bushmasta55

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Zeroing in AR
« on: July 13, 2012, 03:23:14 PM »
I been trying to zero in my AR yesterday but had a hard time doing it.  It was all over the place maybe due to the wind and maybe not doing the fundamentals of shooting.  What are distances on the rifle side? If I remember correctly zeroing is done at 25 meters.  The type of target I was using was the hoppers bull's eye type, are there any tagets besides the military type that help in zeroing in an AR? 

drck1000

Re: Zeroing in AR
« Reply #1 on: July 13, 2012, 03:44:03 PM »
I been trying to zero in my AR yesterday but had a hard time doing it.  It was all over the place maybe due to the wind and maybe not doing the fundamentals of shooting.  What are distances on the rifle side? If I remember correctly zeroing is done at 25 meters.  The type of target I was using was the hoppers bull's eye type, are there any tagets besides the military type that help in zeroing in an AR?

At Koko Head, the first row of pipes is at 50 yards.  The one in front of the berm is at 100 yards. 

I have all of my ARs zeroed at 50 yards.  I am not sure what it a "typical" zero, but I mostly hear either 50 yards or 100 yards.  The wind shouldn't have much of an impact at 50 or 100 yards unless it's really blowing out there. 

I use the targets that have grids at 1 inch on-center.  That helps me judge how many clicks of adjustment that I need when viewing through a spotting scope.  Other than that, nothing special.  I do use a Lead Sled when I zero my guns to help eliminate the human variable and get a little finer zero, but you should have no problem zeroing a gun from a rest of from prone with a magazine monopod.  If you don't have a free float rail, be sure you're not putting too much pressure on the handguards if shooting from a front rest. 

When you mean all over the place, how far are you off?  If you're using something like XM855 at 50 or 100 yards, don't expect to get much better than 3-4 MOA groups. 

bushmasta55

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Re: Zeroing in AR
« Reply #2 on: July 13, 2012, 04:08:53 PM »
I was using steel cased rounds MFS brand from SA.

kia_killer

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Re: Zeroing in AR
« Reply #3 on: July 13, 2012, 04:27:38 PM »
I like the Shoot N C targets, easy to spot and also have 1" grids to help dialing in. What type of sight were you trying to zero? Were you at least on the page for each shot and just getting poor groupings? How did your ar like the steel case ammo?

Ichigeki Hissatsu

Re: Zeroing in AR
« Reply #4 on: July 13, 2012, 05:03:14 PM »
i need to buy a spotting scope lol.  I have such a hard time zeroing my ar's because i can't see where i'm hitting while looking through my shitty binoculars.  :(

DuckFat

Re: Zeroing in AR
« Reply #5 on: July 13, 2012, 05:05:53 PM »
There's holes at 25 yards on the 2nd and 3rd benches on the far right. I zero rifles at 50 yards because that's where I usually set up my frame.

There are probably better ones out there but I like to use this grid type for zeroing a freshly mounted scope.
http://www.targetprinter.com/grid1.html

Did you remember to loctite your screws in place?
What if rhinos are just fat unicorns?

Tom_G

Re: Zeroing in AR
« Reply #6 on: July 13, 2012, 05:47:22 PM »
If you are hitting "all over the place," the problem is  not with sighting in.  Something else is amiss, whether it be you, the gun, or the ammo. 

Step 1:  look for loose screws, parts, or pieces.
Step 2:  buy 2 other brands of ammo.  Just one box each.  Try in particular to get different weights of bullets.
Step 3:  shoot from a benchrest

The target type is irrelevant, although I prefer large pieces of paper (tabloid size) so I can at least tell when I'm on the paper.  With small targets on well-used cardboard, you may have no idea where you are hitting. 

Take your time, do everything by the numbers, and shoot a 5-round group.  At 50 yards, from the bench, even with open sights, there's no reason you shouldn't have a group that you can cover with the palm of your hand.  Repeat the process with a different brand of ammo and a new, clean target.

If you're getting a buckshot pattern, we're back to the "something is wrong" premise.  Eliminate variables one by one.  Start with what's easy, get rid of yourself.  Ask someone else whose targets look a lot better than yours to give it a try. 
The difference between theory and reality is that, in theory, there is no difference between theory and reality.

GZire

Re: Zeroing in AR
« Reply #7 on: July 13, 2012, 06:05:56 PM »
I was using steel cased rounds MFS brand from SA.

What is your sighting program?

Do you shoot a group of 5 then adjust?  Do you shoot from a sandbagged front and rear?  Are you using a magnified optic?  How many groups are you putting down range?  Did you have your optic properly set up (rings tight, screws tight, base tight, parralax adjusted)?

Lots of stuff that can go wrong.

zippz

Re: Zeroing in AR
« Reply #8 on: July 13, 2012, 06:51:53 PM »
Make sure your sights are on tight.  I had loose scope once and was wondering why I was so bad at shooting till I noticed.  If it's not the sights, then I'm afraid to say it's most likely just you.  Do what they recommend with the sandbags and get your rifle zeroed then work on your fundamentals.  Once you get a solid zero and group, you can go to Puuloa to get your  600 yard zero :D

spanner1751

Re: Zeroing in AR
« Reply #9 on: July 13, 2012, 06:56:21 PM »
Set a target at 50 yds with a large white backing (maybe 2X3 feet) with a black circle maybe 6 in. in the center. Then, pick a spot on the berm behind the 100 yd line and shoot at it. That way, you can see the impact of your round in the sand and you can tell where you're hitting. When you're in the ballpark, shoot at the 50 yd target to refine your zero, and finally, take your target out to 100 yds to further refine your zero. 

SpeedTek

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Re: Zeroing in AR
« Reply #10 on: July 14, 2012, 12:03:57 AM »
Free zeroing in your scope at X-Ring for 2A members. Saves Ammo....

As long as they not busy.

I wasted 150 rounds of M1 carbine and was all over the paper. Never again. Laser Bore Sight it first!!!
Political Correctness is FOS
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Jkeone808

Re: Zeroing in AR
« Reply #11 on: July 14, 2012, 12:27:28 AM »
Free zeroing in your scope at X-Ring for 2A members. Saves Ammo....

As long as they not busy.

I wasted 150 rounds of M1 carbine and was all over the paper. Never again. Laser Bore Sight it first!!!

Might have to take you up on that  :shaka:
"A free people ought not only to be armed and disciplined, but they should have sufficient arms and ammunition to maintain a status of independence from any who might attempt to abuse them, which would include their own government."
- George Washington

DuckFat

Re: Zeroing in AR
« Reply #12 on: July 14, 2012, 12:41:31 AM »
Free zeroing in your scope at X-Ring for 2A members. Saves Ammo....

As long as they not busy.

I wasted 150 rounds of M1 carbine and was all over the paper. Never again. Laser Bore Sight it first!!!
Zero as in actual zero on targets or just laser bore sighting?
What if rhinos are just fat unicorns?

Colt808

Re: Zeroing in AR
« Reply #13 on: July 14, 2012, 05:01:31 AM »
If you are hitting "all over the place," the problem is  not with sighting in.  Something else is amiss, whether it be you, the gun, or the ammo. 

Step 1:  look for loose screws, parts, or pieces.
Step 2:  buy 2 other brands of ammo.  Just one box each.  Try in particular to get different weights of bullets.
Step 3:  shoot from a benchrest

^^^This^^^

It's not a sighting in problem, but the ammo (MFS .223 55gr).  Don't use cheap plinking/range ammo for sighting/zeroing...It's a mistake a lot of people make. If you sight in with decent quality ammo (that the barrel is chambered for), you will get consistency necessary to properly sight in.



Reason obeys itself; and ignorance submits to whatever is dictated to it. ~Thomas Paine


And I still see stupid people.

SpeedTek

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Re: Zeroing in AR
« Reply #14 on: July 14, 2012, 06:37:48 AM »
Zero as in actual zero on targets or just laser bore sighting?

Ok well laser bore sight. Get u on paper.
Political Correctness is FOS
I collect M1 Carbines, PM me if youre selling!
& Bolt Action 308s also 10/22 Rugers.
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bushmasta55

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Re: Zeroing in AR
« Reply #15 on: July 14, 2012, 07:59:13 AM »
Thanks for the input guys. My gun cycles the ammo just fine

bushmasta55

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Re: Zeroing in AR
« Reply #16 on: July 14, 2012, 08:09:22 AM »
What is your sighting program?

Do you shoot a group of 5 then adjust?  Do you shoot from a sandbagged front and rear?  Are you using a magnified optic?  How many groups are you putting down range?  Did you have your optic properly set up (rings tight, screws tight, base tight, parralax adjusted)?

Lots of stuff that can go wrong.

Sorry to mention it guys I'm just zeroing in the iron sights.  I shoot 3 rounds then adjust from that.

Teichi

Re: Zeroing in AR
« Reply #17 on: July 14, 2012, 08:53:59 AM »
The twist rate of the rifling is a concern. 1:12 twist rate should only use bullet weights of 55gr or lighter. 1:9 twist rates should be able to use bullets up to 69gr, but I have seen some barrels that could not stabilize bullets of that weight. 1:7 and 1:8 are optimum for bullets in the 62gr to 90gr weight, but should not be used for light varmint bullets weighing less than 55gr as core and jacket separation may occur while the bullet is travelling down the barrel. The rule of thumb is to stick with 1 type of ammo for the distance you intend to shoot.

If your marksmanship fundamentals are lacking, try to find help from the ROs.

Tom_G

Re: Zeroing in AR
« Reply #18 on: July 14, 2012, 11:01:40 AM »
Thanks for the input guys. My gun cycles the ammo just fine


It's not a question of the gun cycling or not.  It's a question of whether the barrel is stabilizing the bullet.  As Techi says, there is a relationship between the barrel's rifling, the bullet's weight, and the bullet's velocity.  The fact that your gun cycles ammo has absolutely nothing to do with whether it is accurate with that same ammo. 
The difference between theory and reality is that, in theory, there is no difference between theory and reality.

bushmasta55

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Re: Zeroing in AR
« Reply #19 on: July 14, 2012, 11:45:27 AM »
What is the twist rate for a bushmaster