Registration requirements for physical appearance before HPD (or other PD) (Read 729 times)

6716J

OK now I'm sure this has been debated before and I know HiFiCo has the P2A lawsuit going, but where EXACTLY does it state in the registration requirements of HRS134-3, and other than on the HPD website that you must bring your firearm in for them to physically inspect it? IMO there is no requirement to actually bring your firearm to them. You just need to register it on the forms prescribed [HRS 134-3(b)].

HRS 134-3(b)(4)(c) is the only place that talks about physical appearance and that is specific to dealers.

I'm asking as so many of us are having HPD tell us we can't use our firearms until they are "registered", which could be months.

Now I agree that screen shots of the HPD appointment system showing no appointments along with date taken is always a good defense in some unlikely event of a cop asking for your registration and you don't have it yet.



https://www.capitol.hawaii.gov/hrscurrent/Vol03_Ch0121-0200D/HRS0134/HRS_0134-0003.htm

So you don't have to go to it:
§134-3  Registration, mandatory, exceptions.  (a)  Every person arriving in the State who brings or by any other manner causes to be brought into the State a firearm of any description, whether usable or unusable, serviceable or unserviceable, modern or antique, shall register the firearm within five days after arrival of the person or of the firearm, whichever arrives later, with the chief of police of the county of the person's place of business or, if there is no place of business, the person's residence or, if there is neither a place of business nor residence, the person's place of sojourn.  A nonresident alien may bring firearms not otherwise prohibited by law into the State for a continuous period not to exceed ninety days; provided that the person meets the registration requirement of this section and the person possesses:

    (1)  A valid Hawaii hunting license procured under chapter 183D, part II, or a commercial or private shooting preserve permit issued pursuant to section 183D-34;

     (2)  A written document indicating the person has been invited to the State to shoot on private land; or

     (3)  Written notification from a firing range or target shooting business indicating that the person will actually engage in target shooting.


The nonresident alien shall be limited to a nontransferable registration of not more than ten firearms for the purpose of the above activities.

     Every person registering a firearm under this subsection shall be fingerprinted and photographed by the police department of the county of registration; provided that this requirement shall be waived where fingerprints and photographs are already on file with the police department.  The police department shall perform an inquiry on the person by using the International Justice and Public Safety Network, including the United States Immigration and Customs Enforcement query, the National Crime Information Center, and the National Instant Criminal Background Check System, pursuant to section 846-2.7 before any determination to register a firearm is made.

     (b)  Every person who acquires a firearm pursuant to section 134-2 shall register the firearm in the manner prescribed by this section within five days of acquisition.  The registration shall be on forms prescribed by the attorney general, which shall be uniform throughout the State, and shall include the following information:  name of the manufacturer and importer; model; type of action; caliber or gauge; serial number; and source from which receipt was obtained, including the name and address of the prior registrant.  If the firearm has no serial number, the permit number shall be entered in the space provided for the serial number, and the permit number shall be engraved upon the receiver portion of the firearm before registration.  All registration data that would identify the individual registering the firearm by name or address shall be confidential and shall not be disclosed to anyone, except as may be required:

     (1)  For processing the registration;

     (2)  For database management by the Hawaii criminal justice data center;

     (3)  By a law enforcement agency for the lawful performance of its duties; or

     (4)  By order of a court.


     (c)  Dealers licensed under section 134-31 or dealers licensed by the United States Department of Justice shall register firearms pursuant to this section on registration forms prescribed by the attorney general and shall not be required to have the firearms physically inspected by the chief of police at the time of registration.

     (d)  Registration shall not be required for:

    (1)  Any device that is designed to fire loose black powder or that is a firearm manufactured before 1899;

     (2)  Any device not designed to fire or made incapable of being readily restored to a firing condition; or

     (3)  All unserviceable firearms and destructive devices registered with the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, and Firearms of the United States Department of Justice pursuant to Title 27, Code of Federal Regulations.


     (e)  No fee shall be charged for the registration of a firearm under this section, except for a fee chargeable by and payable to the registering county for persons registering a firearm under subsection (a), in an amount equal to the fee charged by the Hawaii criminal justice data center pursuant to section 846-2.7.  In the case of a joint registration, the fee provided for in this section may be charged to each person.

     (f)  No person less than twenty-one years of age shall bring or cause to be brought into the State any firearm. [L 1988, c 275, pt of §2; am L 1994, c 204, §4; am L 1999, c 217, §2; am L 2007, c 9, §7; am L 2013, c 254, §2; am L 2016, c 108, §3; am L 2019, c 257, §2]
I'd rather have a bottle in front of me, than a frontal lobotomy.

changemyoil66

You do not have to wait until they're registered. Caldwells proclamation basically says as soon as possible.

HPD has told some people what you're saying above.  So if it wasn't CV and someone has 5 days to register a firearm after receiving it, what if they get pulled over on the way to HPD?  It's still an unregistered firearm right?

Flapp_Jackson

You do not have to wait until they're registered. Caldwells proclamation basically says as soon as possible.

HPD has told some people what you're saying above.  So if it wasn't CV and someone has 5 days to register a firearm after receiving it, what if they get pulled over on the way to HPD?  It's still an unregistered firearm right?

I think you're discussing a different issue:  whether you can use a firearm that's yet to be registered.  My opinion is you can.  Some at HPD told gun owners you can't. 

This topic is about whether or not there's a basis for HPD to require that you must physically present a firearm you are registering rather than providing only the information necessary to complete registration.

I can understand the policy for HPD needing to verify the specific information via direct inspection, so I'm not against doing this.  However, the requirement does cause additional difficulties for people when having to take time off from work, drive home or to the LGS to pick up the weapon, take it to HPD, take it home, then go back to work if time.  Most employers don't allow keeping a firearm on their premises, nor is it smart or responsible to leave a firearm unattended in a vehicle.
"That's what laws are for...  If the right people don't break 'em, they're of no use whatsoever.""

6716J

I think you're discussing a different issue:  whether you can use a firearm that's yet to be registered.  My opinion is you can.  Some at HPD told gun owners you can't. 

This topic is about whether or not there's a basis for HPD to require that you must physically present a firearm you are registering rather than providing only the information necessary to complete registration.

I can understand the policy for HPD needing to verify the specific information via direct inspection, so I'm not against doing this.  However, the requirement does cause additional difficulties for people when having to take time off from work, drive home or to the LGS to pick up the weapon, take it to HPD, take it home, then go back to work if time.  Most employers don't allow keeping a firearm on their premises, nor is it smart or responsible to leave a firearm unattended in a vehicle.

Sorry ... yes I mixed subjects in there.

This topic is solely about HPD's (and others) requirement to bring a firearm in for them to inspect it. And again, I see no requirement that you must do so, other than HPD website that says you have to. But that is not the law.

What I HAVE to do:
Get fingerprinted and photographed
Provide firearm MFR, Model, Serial#, Caliber and action type, and from whom I procured it.
Other than that, nothing.

I don't bring a car to the DMV for them to check when I transfer title or register it, so that argument is invalid.
I'd rather have a bottle in front of me, than a frontal lobotomy.

6716J

Side note: HPD used to have an online process to do the paperwork part of registration a couple of years ago. Anyone know why they stopped doing that? Maybe for this exact reason....
I'd rather have a bottle in front of me, than a frontal lobotomy.

omnigun

This is interesting wonder if we can get legal action on this.  Would save soooo much time.

6716J

This is interesting wonder if we can get legal action on this.  Would save soooo much time.

HiFiCo is working on it with their lawsuit
https://2ahawaii.com/index.php?topic=35148.0
I'd rather have a bottle in front of me, than a frontal lobotomy.

zippz

My registration lawsuit against the State hearing is on Monday at 10am.  Find out then.
Join the Hawaii Firearms Coalition at www.hifico.org.  Hawaii's new non-profit gun rights organization focused on lobbying and grassroots activism.

Hawaii Shooting Calendar - https://calendar.google.com/calendar/embed?src=practicalmarksman.com_btllod1boifgpp8dcjnbnruhso%40group.calendar.google.com&ctz=Pacific/Honolulu

6716J

My registration lawsuit against the State hearing is on Monday at 10am.  Find out then.
Livestream?

And awesome!

Sent from my SM-G970U using Tapatalk

I'd rather have a bottle in front of me, than a frontal lobotomy.

zippz

Livestream?

And awesome!

Sent from my SM-G970U using Tapatalk

It's a conference telephone call.
Join the Hawaii Firearms Coalition at www.hifico.org.  Hawaii's new non-profit gun rights organization focused on lobbying and grassroots activism.

Hawaii Shooting Calendar - https://calendar.google.com/calendar/embed?src=practicalmarksman.com_btllod1boifgpp8dcjnbnruhso%40group.calendar.google.com&ctz=Pacific/Honolulu

omnigun

Re: Registration requirements for physical appearance before HPD (or other PD)
« Reply #10 on: October 18, 2020, 08:11:33 PM »
It's a conference telephone call.

Is it recorded?  Youtube?

H Golf Sport

Re: Registration requirements for physical appearance before HPD (or other PD)
« Reply #11 on: October 19, 2020, 09:38:04 AM »
My registration lawsuit against the State hearing is on Monday at 10am.  Find out then.

Good luck!

6716J

Re: Registration requirements for physical appearance before HPD (or other PD)
« Reply #12 on: October 19, 2020, 02:02:13 PM »
So how did it go? Or can you talk about it yet?
I'd rather have a bottle in front of me, than a frontal lobotomy.

omnigun

Re: Registration requirements for physical appearance before HPD (or other PD)
« Reply #13 on: October 19, 2020, 04:39:27 PM »
Yeah I'm curious on the results!  Its like presents before Christmas.

Flapp_Jackson

Re: Registration requirements for physical appearance before HPD (or other PD)
« Reply #14 on: October 19, 2020, 04:41:07 PM »
Yeah I'm curious on the results!  Its like presents before Christmas.

Christmas?

You and your extreme religious holy day observances.
"That's what laws are for...  If the right people don't break 'em, they're of no use whatsoever.""

zippz

Re: Registration requirements for physical appearance before HPD (or other PD)
« Reply #15 on: October 19, 2020, 10:13:13 PM »
The judge is holding my permit/registration lawsuit until Young vs Hawaii is decided.  Likely around March timeframe, but could be sooner or towards the end of next year.  In the mean time, we will refile our arguments.  Originally, the State stated that there was no requirement in the HRS for a person to bring a gun into the PD's for registration, they claimed it was the PD's policy.  Well the new ghost gun ban bill now adds a requirement in the HRS that firearms have to be brought into the PD's in person for registration.  I forgot to ask Alan if that's targeted at dealers or the public.
Join the Hawaii Firearms Coalition at www.hifico.org.  Hawaii's new non-profit gun rights organization focused on lobbying and grassroots activism.

Hawaii Shooting Calendar - https://calendar.google.com/calendar/embed?src=practicalmarksman.com_btllod1boifgpp8dcjnbnruhso%40group.calendar.google.com&ctz=Pacific/Honolulu

omnigun

Re: Registration requirements for physical appearance before HPD (or other PD)
« Reply #16 on: October 20, 2020, 06:24:03 AM »
The judge is holding my permit/registration lawsuit until Young vs Hawaii is decided.  Likely around March timeframe, but could be sooner or towards the end of next year.  In the mean time, we will refile our arguments.  Originally, the State stated that there was no requirement in the HRS for a person to bring a gun into the PD's for registration, they claimed it was the PD's policy.  Well the new ghost gun ban bill now adds a requirement in the HRS that firearms have to be brought into the PD's in person for registration.  I forgot to ask Alan if that's targeted at dealers or the public.

Dang this is unfortunate.

6716J

Re: Registration requirements for physical appearance before HPD (or other PD)
« Reply #17 on: October 20, 2020, 08:48:26 AM »
The judge is holding my permit/registration lawsuit until Young vs Hawaii is decided.  Likely around March timeframe, but could be sooner or towards the end of next year.  In the mean time, we will refile our arguments.  Originally, the State stated that there was no requirement in the HRS for a person to bring a gun into the PD's for registration, they claimed it was the PD's policy.  Well the new ghost gun ban bill now adds a requirement in the HRS that firearms have to be brought into the PD's in person for registration.  I forgot to ask Alan if that's targeted at dealers or the public.

Well that just sucks.

And why the wait on Young v Hawaii?
I'd rather have a bottle in front of me, than a frontal lobotomy.

Tacozfail

Re: Registration requirements for physical appearance before HPD (or other PD)
« Reply #18 on: October 20, 2020, 09:56:48 AM »
Well that just sucks.

And why the wait on Young v Hawaii?
Yeah was wondering that too.

The only thing I could think of and it’s a stretch is that the underlying argument in Young v. Hawaii is that while the state says these things are possible, the results show this isn’t true. So maybe the judge wants to see how this plays out so they could apply the same scrutiny and reasoning to this system?  Of while the state says they allow us to do it and don’t infringe, their practices actually do?

But of a reach but I can’t see why else it would matter. Maybe I don’t know enough of both cases.

6716J

Re: Registration requirements for physical appearance before HPD (or other PD)
« Reply #19 on: October 20, 2020, 12:23:47 PM »
The judge is holding my permit/registration lawsuit until Young vs Hawaii is decided.  Likely around March timeframe, but could be sooner or towards the end of next year.  In the mean time, we will refile our arguments.  Originally, the State stated that there was no requirement in the HRS for a person to bring a gun into the PD's for registration, they claimed it was the PD's policy.  Well the new ghost gun ban bill now adds a requirement in the HRS that firearms have to be brought into the PD's in person for registration.  I forgot to ask Alan if that's targeted at dealers or the public.

And yet a police department policy is not the law so holds no water, but when you went to register without the firearm they refused to do it. Thus THEY made you a criminal for not following a non-existent "law". Nice to know the corruption and intimidation runs rampant in the PD's here.
I'd rather have a bottle in front of me, than a frontal lobotomy.