This is why independents are getting endangered everyone wants to box people into either side.  What do I do if I believe in parts of both sides?   Suck wind and get 50% of what I want?

If I ask if you like chocolate or vanilla, and you say "Fudge Ripple!", guess what?  We're all out of fudge ripple, so you'll get NOTHING!

(And like it!)

There is no compromise for Democrats.  There never has been.  Having to split non-Democrats into multiple affiliations only dilutes the GOP and gives the Dems a better chance of gaining/retaining power.

Independents usually lean either conservative or liberal.  That makes them more GOP or Democrat.  Since there's really no independent party (it's just a label -- e.g. Bernie Sanders calling himself "Independent" in Congress and running as a Democrat).  It's a fact.

I've voted on both sides.  I lean conservative but doesn't stop me from voting democrat sometimes.  I look at the person running, what they stand for, not at party.

If I ask if you like chocolate or vanilla, and you say "Fudge Ripple!", guess what?  We're all out of fudge ripple, so you'll get NOTHING!

(And like it!)

In that sense, sometimes I eat chocolate, sometimes I eat vanilla depends on what I think is better at that time.  Or like this election I chose to eat strawberry (3rd party).

Don't let the icecream store choose what flavor you always eat else you are going to get a low quality icecream because they don't have to put effort to get you as a customer. 

I've voted on both sides.  I lean conservative but doesn't stop me from voting democrat sometimes.  I look at the person running, what they stand for, not at party.

Whatever makes you feel good about yourself.

But this is not about YOU.  It's about the parties at the FEDERAL level.

If you voted against Hanabusa, Case, Schatz and Hirono, it didn't matter.  If you voted against Trump in 2016, it also didn't matter (Bernie Bro??).

We know who Hawaii will vote for in federal elections.  So in those, your vote doesn't matter whether you are in the Dem majority or not.

In local and state elections, you have more say, but not much more.

This is the umpteenth time you've made this statement about voting for "whoever YOU like better."  How many more before you're sure everyone has seen it and remembers it?

I guess infinity can't be quantified, so there's no answer to my question.

In that sense, sometimes I eat chocolate, sometimes I eat vanilla depends on what I think is better at that time.  Or like this election I chose to eat strawberry (3rd party).

Don't let the icecream store choose what flavor you always eat else you are going to get a low quality icecream because they don't have to put effort to get you as a customer.

That makes no sense.

You must have been exerting your "independence" and was out doing something else the day they taught analogies in school.

And the day they taught spelling....
and grammar
and punctuation
and typing ....

You should have said, "Don't let the ICE CREAM MAKERS choose your flavor."  The store doesn't care what flavor you buy.  They get paid regardless.  If the store bought vanilla from Company V and chocolate from company C, THE MAKERS would care what flavor you bought, but not the store.

Side note:  I used to make and sell ice cream and many other products in an ice cream and dairy plant.  Fair warning .....

Whatever makes you feel good about yourself.

But this is not about YOU.  It's about the parties at the FEDERAL level.

If you voted against Hanabusa, Case, Schatz and Hirono, it didn't matter.  If you voted against Trump in 2016, it also didn't matter (Bernie Bro??).

We know who Hawaii will vote for in federal elections.  So in those, your vote doesn't matter whether you are in the Dem majority or not.

In local and state elections, you have more say, but not much more.

This is the umpteenth time you've made this statement about voting for "whoever YOU like better."  How many more before you're sure everyone has seen it and remembers it?

I guess infinity can't be quantified, so there's no answer to my question.

Voted for trump in 2016.  Republican for senators,  democrat for governor.
I dislike Bernie sanders.

That makes no sense.

You must have been exerting your "independence" and was out doing something else the day they taught analogies in school.

And the day they taught spelling....
and grammar
and punctuation
and typing ....

You should have said, "Don't let the ICE CREAM MAKERS choose your flavor."  The store doesn't care what flavor you buy.  They get paid regardless.  If the store bought vanilla from Company V and chocolate from company C, THE MAKERS would care what flavor you bought, but not the store.

Side note:  I used to make and sell ice cream and many other products in an ice cream and dairy plant.  Fair warning .....

Riddle me this.  If you owned a ice-cream store and people only bought vanilla or chocolate. Would you have other flavors?  Now let's say your customers would buy ice cream regardless of quality would you change the ingredients to profit greater?  Capitalism,  competition is what makes America great.   Why should it not apply to politics.

Riddle me this.  If you owned a ice-cream store and people only bought vanilla or chocolate. Would you have other flavors?  Now let's say your customers would buy ice cream regardless of quality would you change the ingredients to profit greater?  Capitalism,  competition is what makes America great.   Why should it not apply to politics.

The market dictates what I sell. 

Politics is about marketing, not preferences.  When you buy a car, hopefully you know if you want a truck, car, or minivan.  Then you look at the choices in that type.  Then you settle on the top two brands, because you know the last few Toyotas and Hondas you bought lasted more than 12 years and were super reliable.

Sure, you can take a chance on a Ford, Chevy or Dodge.  Maybe even test drive a Hyundai.  But in the end, you're most likely going to pick from the two you know you're least likely to regret buying years later.

Once you have the Toyota and Honda side by side, you then compare specs.  You also compare how they drive.  Finally, the price. 

If one costs more, but has more standard features, better option packages, and higher safety rating, maybe that's your pick.

If the other one, though, is more appealing to you in colors available, body style, upholstery material and colors, and electronic gizmos that you think will make driving it more pleasurable, plus it's cheaper, you might be fine with 1/2 star lower safety rating for rear airbag design and no heated seats.

In the end, you pick the one you think will do the job.  If both can, then you decide if cost (higher taxes, slower economy, more gun control, continued foreign wars, ...) is worth the trade-off (no more Orange Man Bad stressing you in the news).

In the final analysis, you don't pick the Hyundai, because you already KNOW what you're getting in the Honda and Toyota based on experience -- past performance vs. unknown capabilities.  The outcome might be too important to take a blind risk like that.

The market dictates what I sell. 

Politics is about marketing, not preferences.  When you buy a car, hopefully you know if you want a truck, car, or minivan.  Then you look at the choices in that type.  Then you settle on the top two brands, because you know the last few Toyotas and Hondas you bought lasted more than 12 years and were super reliable.

Sure, you can take a chance on a Ford, Chevy or Dodge.  Maybe even test drive a Hyundai.  But in the end, you're most likely going to pick from the two you know you're least likely to regret buying years later.

Once you have the Toyota and Honda side by side, you then compare specs.  You also compare how they drive.  Finally, the price. 

If one costs more, but has more standard features, better option packages, and higher safety rating, maybe that's your pick.

If the other one, though, is more appealing to you in colors available, body style, upholstery material and colors, and electronic gizmos that you think will make driving it more pleasurable, plus it's cheaper, you might be fine with 1/2 star lower safety rating for rear airbag design and no heated seats.

In the end, you pick the one you think will do the job.  If both can, then you decide if cost (higher taxes, slower economy, more gun control, continued foreign wars, ...) is worth the trade-off (no more Orange Man Bad stressing you in the news).

In the final analysis, you don't pick the Hyundai, because you already KNOW what you're getting in the Honda and Toyota based on experience -- past performance vs. unknown capabilities.  The outcome might be too important to take a blind risk like that.

The whole point of this is there is only 2 choices.  You don't get anything like what you are talking about.  That's the entire point you want choices.  But with the current political environment you don't get any.   There is two brands.  And each brand there is one model. 

The whole point of this is there is only 2 choices.  You don't get anything like what you are talking about.  That's the entire point you want choices.  But with the current political environment you don't get any.   There is two brands.  And each brand there is one model.

WRONG.  WRONG.  WRONG.

The point is there are two VIABLE choices.  You have others, but you risk wasting your vote.  You're 100% free to NOT vote, too.  Let everyone else select your leaders.  Millions do, so they don't have to regret making the wrong decision -- or they just believe there's not enough difference in candidates to matter.

If you think the Hyundai is nicer, but your spouse and kids prefer the Toyota, are you going to cry because you got out-voted? 

On the other hand, if the 3 kids and the spouse are split 2-2 between the Honda and Toyota, and you wanted the Hyundai, are you going to stick with your #1 choice and let a coin toss decide?  Or are you going to be mature enough to realize your Hyundai isn't even in the running, and it's better to help pick which one of the VIABLE two is going to be the new family car?

WRONG.  WRONG.  WRONG.

The point is there are two VIABLE choices.  You have others, but you risk wasting your vote.  You're 100% free to NOT vote, too.  Let everyone else select your leaders.  Millions do, so they don't have to regret making the wrong decision -- or they just believe there's not enough difference in candidates to matter.

If you think the Hyundai is nicer, but your spouse and kids prefer the Toyota, are you going to cry because you got out-voted? 

On the other hand, if the 3 kids and the spouse are split 2-2 between the Honda and Toyota, and you wanted the Hyundai, are you going to stick with your #1 choice and let a coin toss decide?  Or are you going to be mature enough to realize your Hyundai isn't even in the running, and it's better to help pick which one of the VIABLE two is going to be the new family car?

Unless there is competition this is how it will be forever.  Sounds a lot closer to communism.  Two choices, red or blue.  Most other democracies in the world don't have this problem.  Much more choices, their choices really need to prove themselves.  Not like our establishment politicians that pick a party and last for decades because their own party doesn't replace them and there's only one other party.

Unless there is competition this is how it will be forever.  Sounds a lot closer to communism.  Two choices, red or blue.  Most other democracies in the world don't have this problem.  Much more choices, their choices really need to prove themselves.  Not like our establishment politicians that pick a party and last for decades because their own party doesn't replace them and there's only one other party.

This demonstrates a few things, not the least of which is how little you understand Communism.

Most other DEMOCRACIES?  Who said our government was a democracy -- other than ignorant people who believe that line from everyone who hates Trump, and news figures and Dem politicians who peddle hyperbole?

We had 27 candidates in the Democrat race in 2019-2020, and 22 Republican candidates in the 2016 race.  The Dem field in 2016 only had 6 candidates, because Hildabeast was the presumptive nominee from day one.  Bernie only ran to give the appearance that she was not running unopposed out of some misguided opinion it made for better campaigning.

The VOTERS in each party selected their ONE candidate for that year's general election, with 2016 being an exception in that Super Delegates anointed Clinton and shunned Bernie (the rules were changed in 2020 to avoid being unfair, even though Bernie still lost to Mr. Establishment).  How the hell is this system even CLOSE to "Communism?"

Do you come up with this BS on your own, or are you just accepting some pundit's lies as opinions?

If you want to decry lifetime politicians in government office, that's a separate topic.  Voters have the power to kick them out.  All they have to do is elect the other party's candidate once, and you'll have no problem finding others to run against them next time.

The #1 issue we have is not a 2-party system or any other situation for running, voting, etc.  The problem is fund raising.  One of the reasons few tried to compete with Hillary was her ability to syphon off the vast majority of donations leaving little for the others.  She wound up spending $1.5B in 2016, not counting all the "dark" money spent on her behalf.  Trump, by comparison, only spent about half that.  If you want to win, you need a major party AND THEIR DONORS to run your campaign.  Top campaign directors and coordinators don't come cheap.  You need polling, canvassing, planners, organizations in all states, fund raisers, etc, etc.  Without money, you have no campaign.  Just making a cool website isn't going to be enough.

Anyway, you really need to learn more about the things you comment on before tossing out BS.  Of course, why stop now, right?  No sense in doing the work when we'll fill in the blanks for you.   

Voted for trump in 2016.  Republican for senators,  democrat for governor.
I dislike Bernie sanders.

What state were you living in in 2016?

What state were you living in in 2016?

This state

What state were you living in in 2016?

Confusion?

Denial?

Disbelief?

This state

There was no gubernatorial election in Hawaii in 2016.

There was no gubernatorial election in Hawaii in 2016.

My bad I ment recent elections. I voted Ige.

My bad I ment recent elections. I voted Ige.

You must be a Muppets fan....   

My bad I ment recent elections. I voted Ige.

ment?

ment?

Hookt on Fonix.