The COVID Cult (Read 1790821 times)

Flapp_Jackson

Re: The COVID Cult
« Reply #1560 on: January 16, 2021, 02:29:54 PM »
This is an unfair comparison.  A gun in a responsible persons hands or on its own has a 0 percent chance of hurting someone.     Covid with an asymptomatic or symptomatic can transfer and harm others.  The risk is there.   Where a gun isn't.  There's a reason why we ban drunk drivers. Is that government overreach?   Should drunk drivers have the right to drive?  The chance of you getting hurt is probably pretty low just like covid.

You're arguing that everyone, whether showing symptoms or not, whether tested positive or not, must be treated as if they are contagious.  Basically, you're punishing 100% of the population because a small percentage might be WILLFULLY infecting others.  You want to enforce LAWS that assume everyone is a danger, just because they don't want to wear a mask.

That mentality is exactly like the gun-fearing 2A haters.  Taking the guns away from everyone is the solution for keeping a small percentage from committing gun crimes.  Punish 100% of the population because a few will commit crimes.

I see no difference, other than the fact that the gun haters can't shoehorn their agenda into the pandemic.

A DUI conviction requires evidence of intoxication.  It should be the same with wearing of masks.  If the state can't prove you were infected, then the risk to the population never existed, and forcing the wearing of a mask by that citizen was unwarranted.  No risk = no crime.

Masks don't prevent infection of the wearer.  It's only for the risk to others -- as you continually repeat over and over.  So, without PROOF the maskless person is infected, you're advocating for punishing the innocent.
The reasonable man adapts himself to the world;
the unreasonable one persists in trying to adapt the world to himself.
Therefore, all progress depends on the unreasonable man.
-- George Bernard Shaw

ren

Re: The COVID Cult
« Reply #1561 on: January 16, 2021, 02:32:44 PM »
I was referring to the irrational fear of guns by OTHER people. I or anyone else have no control over how they feel or think but they HATE guns. They want them ALL gone. So, would you get rid of your stuff to make them FEEL better?
Deeds Not Words

Flapp_Jackson

Re: The COVID Cult
« Reply #1562 on: January 16, 2021, 02:39:14 PM »
I was referring to the irrational fear of guns by OTHER people. I or anyone else have no control over how they feel or think but they HATE guns. They want them ALL gone. So, would you get rid of your stuff to make them FEEL better?

People have a RIGHT to free healthcare.
People have a RIGHT to free college educations.
People have a RIGHT to murder the unborn.
People have a RIGHT to ruin other people's lives if they say something they don't like.

Why not create another "new right" to make it illegal to cause a negative feeling of any sort in anyone and based purely on the judgment of the "victim?"

We've gotten so wrapped around the "legal right" axle, nobody recognizes "god-given, natural rights" anymore.
The reasonable man adapts himself to the world;
the unreasonable one persists in trying to adapt the world to himself.
Therefore, all progress depends on the unreasonable man.
-- George Bernard Shaw

omnigun

Re: The COVID Cult
« Reply #1563 on: January 16, 2021, 02:39:36 PM »
You're arguing that everyone, whether showing symptoms or not, whether tested positive or not, must be treated as if they are contagious.  Basically, you're punishing 100% of the population because a small percentage might be WILLFULLY infecting others.  You want to enforce LAWS that assume everyone is a danger, just because they don't want to wear a mask.

That mentality is exactly like the gun-fearing 2A haters.  Taking the guns away from everyone is the solution for keeping a small percentage from committing gun crimes.  Punish 100% of the population because a few will commit crimes.

I see no difference, other than the fact that the gun haters can't shoehorn their agenda into the pandemic.

A DUI conviction requires evidence of intoxication.  It should be the same with wearing of masks.  If the state can't prove you were infected, then the risk to the population never existed, and forcing the wearing of a mask by that citizen was unwarranted.  No risk = no crime.

Masks don't prevent infection of the wearer.  It's only for the risk to others -- as you continually repeat over and over.  So, without PROOF the maskless person is infected, you're advocating for punishing the innocent.

You can prove you are not drunk easily, to avoid "punishment".  Can you do the same for covid?  Is there a reasonable alternative?  The police have the right to pull anyone over to test them, while in public.  There is also evidence of someone being drunk.  But with an invisible virus its not that easy.  Along with the fact there are people who show no symptoms.  Just because you can't prove that you are a risk doesn't magically make you not a risk.  Imagine if drunk drivers drove perfectly normal, completely unknown to everyone and still had potential to kill innocent people and a far greater rate than a non drunk person.  How would the police and the nation respond?
A responsible person would wear a mask to protect others, just like a responsible person wouldn't drive drunk.  Both people help protect innocent others.
Its just like if guns were not 100% safe (which they are).  What if out 1 of 1000 guns they would randomly go off in public.  Would you create preventative measures like having a safety mandatory?  Or proper training? Or would that punish all the guns that don't have safety's and don't kill people.  A mask is denying liberty as much as a gun with a safety is. 

omnigun

Re: The COVID Cult
« Reply #1564 on: January 16, 2021, 02:41:49 PM »
People have a RIGHT to free healthcare.
People have a RIGHT to free college educations.
People have a RIGHT to murder the unborn.
People have a RIGHT to ruin other people's lives if they say something they don't like.

Why not create another "new right" to make it illegal to cause a negative feeling of any sort in anyone and based purely on the judgment of the "victim?"

We've gotten so wrapped around the "legal right" axle, nobody recognizes "god-given, natural rights" anymore.

People have none of those rights other than "murder the unborn"

Never said I support any of these.

People have a RIGHT to free healthcare.
People have a RIGHT to free college educations.
People have a RIGHT to ruin other people's lives if they say something they don't like.

I've said many times, healthcare and education is a choice.  And cancel culture is horrible.  You keep forgetting many people have mixed views on things.  You can support abortion and not support the other three.  They are not some package deal. Thats why independents exist...

omnigun

Re: The COVID Cult
« Reply #1565 on: January 16, 2021, 02:45:45 PM »
I was referring to the irrational fear of guns by OTHER people. I or anyone else have no control over how they feel or think but they HATE guns. They want them ALL gone. So, would you get rid of your stuff to make them FEEL better?

All the fear in the world will never kill a single person.  I can fear aliens, but does that mean anything?   Will aliens ever hurt me? 

If you could prove to me and others that no one will get hurt or die from covid from others who are not malicious I would support no masks and personal choice.

I can prove to you a loaded gun alone can never kill a person.

I can also prove to you that a loaded gun with a responsible person behind it wont harm others either.

A malicious person will always cause harm, either a virus or a firearm.  That comes down to the person.  But non malicious responsible people will not harm others with firearms, but they can with covid.

robtmc

Re: The COVID Cult
« Reply #1566 on: January 16, 2021, 02:48:02 PM »
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Flapp_Jackson

Re: The COVID Cult
« Reply #1567 on: January 16, 2021, 02:51:11 PM »
You can prove you are not drunk easily, to avoid "punishment".  Can you do the same for covid?  Is there a reasonable alternative?  The police have the right to pull anyone over to test them, while in public.  There is also evidence of someone being drunk.  But with an invisible virus its not that easy.  Along with the fact there are people who show no symptoms.  Just because you can't prove that you are a risk doesn't magically make you not a risk.  Imagine if drunk drivers drove perfectly normal, completely unknown to everyone and still had potential to kill innocent people and a far greater rate than a non drunk person.  How would the police and the nation respond?
A responsible person would wear a mask to protect others, just like a responsible person wouldn't drive drunk.  Both people help protect innocent others.
Its just like if guns were not 100% safe (which they are).  What if out 1 of 1000 guns they would randomly go off in public.  Would you create preventative measures like having a safety mandatory?  Or proper training? Or would that punish all the guns that don't have safety's and don't kill people.  A mask is denying liberty as much as a gun with a safety is.

Your thinking is SO BACKWARDS.

It's not up to YOU to PROVE you are not drunk.  It's up to the STATE/COPS to have a reasonable, articulable suspicion that you're intoxicated BEFORE they arrest you.

Yes, you can take a COVID test to prove you are not infected.  Is that what you're advocating?  100% constant testing (twice a week?) to verify everyone is clean?

Over 80% of people DO wear masks in public.  They should not be terrified of anyone they see not wearing one, nor treated like a mass murderer for forgetting to wear theirs.

You are inconsistent in your arguments, but you are very consistent in your blind allegiance to the Left's marching orders.   Obey -- for the good of all -- or be punished.

If the "responsible" people you mentioned are already wearing masks, and they are, then there's no logical reason to create laws for the MINORITY.   Look at how many times politicians feeding you this BS are caught maskless or wearing their masks incorrectly.  If it were that big a deal, they should be fined and/or charged with reckless endangerment.
The reasonable man adapts himself to the world;
the unreasonable one persists in trying to adapt the world to himself.
Therefore, all progress depends on the unreasonable man.
-- George Bernard Shaw

hvybarrels

Re: The COVID Cult
« Reply #1568 on: January 16, 2021, 02:51:18 PM »
55 Americans have already died of the vaccine. Other countries are adjusting their guidance. Judging by how everything has been handled so far most likely there will be more unintended consequences on the way soon.

https://www.zerohedge.com/covid-19/55-americans-have-died-following-covid-vaccination-norway-deaths-rise-29
Pretending to be offended does not make you a good person.

Flapp_Jackson

Re: The COVID Cult
« Reply #1569 on: January 16, 2021, 02:54:40 PM »
All the fear in the world will never kill a single person.  I can fear aliens, but does that mean anything?   Will aliens ever hurt me? 

Fear of COVID is causing patients to skip screenings,
doctors predict spike in cancer death rates


Quote
BALTIMORE — Doctors are predicting cancer death rates will spike because of the
pandemic, from missed screenings and fear of the virus, something they're already
seeing.

"There's been a number of patients who presented with locally advanced breast cancer.
This is related to the pandemic, there’s no doubt in my mind. They were afraid and they
were unable to reach out," said Dr. Maen Farha, the Medical Director of the Breast Center
at Medstar Good Samaritan Hospital.

https://www.wmar2news.com/news/health/fear-of-covid-is-causing-patients-to-skip-screenings-doctors-predict-spike-in-cancer-death-rates
The reasonable man adapts himself to the world;
the unreasonable one persists in trying to adapt the world to himself.
Therefore, all progress depends on the unreasonable man.
-- George Bernard Shaw

omnigun

Re: The COVID Cult
« Reply #1570 on: January 16, 2021, 03:28:43 PM »
Your thinking is SO BACKWARDS.

It's not up to YOU to PROVE you are not drunk.  It's up to the STATE/COPS to have a reasonable, articulable suspicion that you're intoxicated BEFORE they arrest you.

Yes, you can take a COVID test to prove you are not infected.  Is that what you're advocating?  100% constant testing (twice a week?) to verify everyone is clean?

Over 80% of people DO wear masks in public.  They should not be terrified of anyone they see not wearing one, nor treated like a mass murderer for forgetting to wear theirs.

You are inconsistent in your arguments, but you are very consistent in your blind allegiance to the Left's marching orders.   Obey -- for the good of all -- or be punished.

If the "responsible" people you mentioned are already wearing masks, and they are, then there's no logical reason to create laws for the MINORITY.   Look at how many times politicians feeding you this BS are caught maskless or wearing their masks incorrectly.  If it were that big a deal, they should be fined and/or charged with reckless endangerment.

A majority of people don't drive drunk yet we still have laws.  People are naturally afraid of threats.  One of those 20% could kill them.   Just like you avoid the crazy bum shouting at the wall, people avoid those without masks.  Laws are not applicable to only certain people or the majority they are for everyone.  If 99.9% of people don't murder yet we still outlaw it for the .1%. 

I don't march to the left's beat, as proven before.  But on covid measures I happen to agree with what they say more than the republicans.  Nothing wrong with that.  I am not ashamed of supporting democrats on some things, like how you think I should.  That's part of being independent. 

omnigun

Re: The COVID Cult
« Reply #1571 on: January 16, 2021, 03:29:53 PM »
55 Americans have already died of the vaccine. Other countries are adjusting their guidance. Judging by how everything has been handled so far most likely there will be more unintended consequences on the way soon.

https://www.zerohedge.com/covid-19/55-americans-have-died-following-covid-vaccination-norway-deaths-rise-29

Almost 400,000 have died from covid.  I would take the vaccine any day over that. 

omnigun

Re: The COVID Cult
« Reply #1572 on: January 16, 2021, 03:35:42 PM »
Fear of COVID is causing patients to skip screenings,
doctors predict spike in cancer death rates


https://www.wmar2news.com/news/health/fear-of-covid-is-causing-patients-to-skip-screenings-doctors-predict-spike-in-cancer-death-rates

Interesting I will have to revise my statement fear alone can't cause deaths.  Byproducts of fear could.  Would this apply to guns, not sure.  I supposed you could be so scared of guns you don't go outside too, but that's just not practical.  Then again the fear of guns is unpractical in itself.

Flapp_Jackson

Re: The COVID Cult
« Reply #1573 on: January 16, 2021, 03:36:29 PM »
A majority of people don't drive drunk yet we still have laws.  People are naturally afraid of threats.  One of those 20% could kill them.   Just like you avoid the crazy bum shouting at the wall, people avoid those without masks.  Laws are not applicable to only certain people or the majority they are for everyone.  If 99.9% of people don't murder yet we still outlaw it for the .1%. 

I don't march to the left's beat, as proven before.  But on covid measures I happen to agree with what they say more than the republicans.  Nothing wrong with that.  I am not ashamed of supporting democrats on some things, like how you think I should.  That's part of being independent.

Unconstitutional laws based on FEAR are unjust.
The reasonable man adapts himself to the world;
the unreasonable one persists in trying to adapt the world to himself.
Therefore, all progress depends on the unreasonable man.
-- George Bernard Shaw

Flapp_Jackson

Re: The COVID Cult
« Reply #1574 on: January 16, 2021, 03:39:15 PM »
Interesting I will have to revise my statement fear alone can't cause deaths.  Byproducts of fear could.  Would this apply to guns, not sure.  I supposed you could be so scared of guns you don't go outside too, but that's just not practical.  Then again the fear of guns is unpractical in itself.

There are people who were killed because their fear of guns prevented them from being armed and capable of defending against the person that murdered them.

No different than those who died because the government prevented them from arming themselves, except the fear is on the part of the politicians making the laws, not on the part of the would-be gun owner who dies from criminal violence.
The reasonable man adapts himself to the world;
the unreasonable one persists in trying to adapt the world to himself.
Therefore, all progress depends on the unreasonable man.
-- George Bernard Shaw

aletheuo137

Re: The COVID Cult
« Reply #1575 on: January 16, 2021, 04:41:21 PM »
There are people who were killed because their fear of guns prevented them from being armed and capable of defending against the person that murdered them.

No different than those who died because the government prevented them from arming themselves, except the fear is on the part of the politicians making the laws, not on the part of the would-be gun owner who dies from criminal violence.
Flapp, it's like telling alcoholic he's an alcoholic. Let him hit bottom to look up!

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Flapp_Jackson

Re: The COVID Cult
« Reply #1576 on: January 16, 2021, 04:54:14 PM »
Flapp, it's like telling alcoholic he's an alcoholic. Let him hit bottom to look up!

He's hit bottom so often already, it's obvious he's a bottom feeder and enjoys the plunge into the abyss. 

Since he's a lost cause, I see no reason not to get a little target practice in every few days or so!  No damage done.   :geekdanc: :thumbsup:
The reasonable man adapts himself to the world;
the unreasonable one persists in trying to adapt the world to himself.
Therefore, all progress depends on the unreasonable man.
-- George Bernard Shaw

aletheuo137

Re: The COVID Cult
« Reply #1577 on: January 16, 2021, 05:08:37 PM »
He's hit bottom so often already, it's obvious he's a bottom feeder and enjoys the plunge into the abyss. 

Since he's a lost cause, I see no reason not to get a little target practice in every few days or so!  No damage done.   :geekdanc:
Ahhhh...  Range time. I got it now

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Jl808

Re: The COVID Cult
« Reply #1578 on: January 16, 2021, 07:55:10 PM »
If you want to vaccinate then vaccinate.
If you don’t want to vaccinate, then don’t.

Don’t tell someone else to do something they don’t want to.
Their body, their choice.
I think, therefore I am armed.
NRA Life Patron member, HRA Life member, HiFiCo Life Member, HDF member

The United States Constitution © 1791. All Rights Reserved.

changemyoil66

Re: The COVID Cult
« Reply #1579 on: January 16, 2021, 08:25:00 PM »
If you want to vaccinate then vaccinate.
If you don’t want to vaccinate, then don’t.

Don’t tell someone else to do something they don’t want to.
Their body, their choice.
That statement makes too much sense.

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