wow, one more reason not to shop at magnum

aloha

steve

mind you this was like 4 years ago or something like that.  Way before the new owners took over.

Winchester's bonded Ranger ammo is LEO-only. Winchester asks that it be sold only to LEO as a condition to selling it to the dealer. Gotta have a cop buddy buy it for you.

I believe this all stems from when they used to make Black Talon ammo. Best performing and nastiest round you could buy. Winchester started getting a bad rap from the politically correct doctors about how the Black Talon would do more damage and was harder to remove and dangerous to the doctor to remove from someone fighting to live. So they tried to control it for LEO only but the political damage was done. So they started making the Ranger SXT and tried to make it LEO only. Funny joke was that it was rumored that SXT stood for (Same eXact Thing). I personally don't think that the new Ranger Bonded is as good as the Black Talon/Ranger SXT. If you have a chance to to pick up some BT or SXT for self defense I would and please let me know where you can get it.

Otherwise I am loading my own SD rounds with Hornady XTP bullets in 147gr 9mm in my revolver.

I believe this all stems from when they used to make Black Talon ammo. Best performing and nastiest round you could buy. Winchester started getting a bad rap from the politically correct doctors about how the Black Talon would do more damage and was harder to remove and dangerous to the doctor to remove from someone fighting to live. So they tried to control it for LEO only but the political damage was done. So they started making the Ranger SXT and tried to make it LEO only. Funny joke was that it was rumored that SXT stood for (Same eXact Thing). I personally don't think that the new Ranger Bonded is as good as the Black Talon/Ranger SXT. If you have a chance to to pick up some BT or SXT for self defense I would and please let me know where you can get it.

Otherwise I am loading my own SD rounds with Hornady XTP bullets in 147gr 9mm in my revolver.

I've been wondering for a while.  Are Ranger T series and Ranger SXT the same thing?  From what i've seen in expansion test, they look the same, but was wonder if there were any differences that the eye couldn't see.  I also agree that the Winchester bonded isn't nearly as good.  Those "talons" that protrude from the SXT/T Series after expansion is MEAN.

Anyone know if any shops carry hornady FTX ammo in 9mm, .40 or .45?  I've seen some expansion tests on youtube with this ammo and it has done well.  Especially when clothes/denim are involved since it usually plugs up the hollow point cavity in most other ammo.

+1 for hornady critical defense. Also picked up a case of fiocchi .45 standard hollow points as reserve.

Ranger T, SXT (Same X-act Thing), and Black Talons are almost all the same. I think the old Black Talons have sharper "talons", but I think they toned it down with the others because surgeons were complaining it was cutting through their gloves.

HPD issues 9mm Speer Gold Dot 147 gr hollowpoints.

What cop was that??

.38 Spl 125 gr Hornady XTP in SP-101

9mm 147 gr Speer Gold Dot (bought OGC's last box during the SSF)

Found out that Security Equipment Corp sells 50 round boxes of 9mm 147 gr Speer GD...I'll be buying that whenever I feel the need to cycle through the ammo.

I can't say, he's related to me though, by marriage.

I can't say, he's related to me though, by marriage.

You should educate him.  Then have him come with you to a gun shop so he can get you some "LEO only" ammo 

Looks like I'll be getting some Speer gold dot or  critical defense

side note: a lot of people including one LEO think that hollow points illegal

"do you keep your gun loaded at home?"
"yep, 10 in the mag and 1 in the chamber, all hollow points"
*eyes get wide* "hollow points are illegal, how'd you get those?"
"naaaah, they're legal, and can be bought at pretty much all gun shops"

I've had similar encounters like this. Where are these people getting their info? In the same conversation, I also end up explaining what a hollow point is.

"that's illegal!!! what is it???"
 

I use Gold Dot also

Haha! I haven't had to explain it yet but in some weird way I'm kinda looking forward to it 


I have no idea where they're getting their info. Were HP's illegal here at one point?

Mix of Winchester Ranger RA9T and RA9B, and RA45B, about 1k of each.

I don't look like a cop.

They should give you the discount for your service in the Military.  I got some Gold Dot .38 for my 686.  I've never actually shot it though, plan on picking up another box for the Range.

124 gr Remington GS for my 9mm
124 gr Hornady XTP for my 357
158 gr Hornady XTP for my 38 spl

I don't have enough to consider it as "stocked up."  I do have enough to fill a couple of magazines and speed loaders though . . .

38 spl +P gold dots
9mm  gold dots

reload with nosler 9mm / 115 jhp and Win .38 / 158 Semi jhp for general blasting

Haven't really stocked up, but I'll probably buy a case of 9mm and 38 montana gold bullets at some point to get started.

Hornady knows their stuff, so I'd have no problem trusting their self-defense ammo.  A lot of people like Speer Gold Dot because it has the advantage of being widely issued by various major law-enforcement agencies around the country.  That provides you with a pretty much airtight defense if you end up at trial for a self-defense shooting.  The DA may want to make noise about how you were a crazed sociopath who loaded his gun with super duper cop killer anti-matter hollowpoints, but if it's the same stuff used by HPD, or the FBI, or some other outfit like that, he won't find much traction.  I use Remington Golden Saber, because that's what OGC had the last time I was buying JHPs.  Next time I stock up I think I'm making the switch to Gold Dot.

Heh.  "Anti-matter hollowpoints."  Highly grinnable.

I also use Remington Golden Saber 'cause that was what was available at the time and I pick up a box or two whenever I can.  I later realized that since there was no exposed lead on them I could carry a speed loader in my pocket without lead rubbing off all over my change and cigarette lighter and Chap-stick and everything.

I'd maybe change to something else but I've got the laser on my J-frame dialed in for this ammo.

As far as I know, the only state that prohibits hollow points for the lowly "civilian" is New Jersey.  Maybe that cop was from there or something, but it might be worth checking out Hawaiian law closely, both locally and statewide, for hard information on this point.  Perhaps it's only an opinion of a high mucky-muck PD person which filtered down to the serfs and vassals as "law."

Terry, 230RN

REF (Reinforcing some points made by others):
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hollow-point_bullet#Legality

The only ammunition that's banned in Hawaii is as follows, per HRS 134-8: "...any type of ammunition or any projectile component thereof coated with teflon or any other similar coating designed primarily to enhance its capability to penetrate metal or pierce protective armor; and any type of ammunition or any projectile component thereof designed or intended to explode or segment upon impact with its target."

According to my trusty Word Tech Manual, segment as a verb means "to cut or divide (a whole object) into segments", so the straight dope is, you can't have ammunition coated with teflon or other substances which are primarily designed to enhance performance on body armor, and you can't use the exploding bullets that I've never been able to find anywhere, anyway.  In all honesty, of all the ammunition that's out there, the only thing you can't have in Hawaii is frangible ammunition. 

So if the bullet was coated with Teflon primarily to reduce barrel wear then it's all g.

So if the bullet was coated with Teflon primarily to reduce barrel wear then it's all g.

That's what I would think, but teflon is specifically called out as being banned.  You could get away with it, but I think you'd be banking on 1) having a lawyer who can explain barrel wear, lead/copper fouling, pressure, velocity, etc, adequately and succinctly; and 2) having a jury that's intelligent enough to understand all that.  At the end of the day, you'd be hanging your hat on your lawyer's ability to convince the jury what the ammunition is "primarily intended" to do, and that's a mighty small hook to hang anything on.  I'd stay away from it, personally, just to be on the safe side.

Who stocks hornady critical defense?

I just dial 9-1-1