Ethics of mandatory vaccinations (Read 10806 times)

Brystont1

Ethics of mandatory vaccinations
« on: April 22, 2021, 08:09:04 PM »
 I have not seen anyone here successfully refute Omnigun on the issue of these passports. Perhaps he is right about them. I’m starting a new thread here because the COVID cult thread is so hard to follow so I figured a thread dedicated specifically to this issue would be ok (mods feel free to lock/delete if I’m wrong).

Now I am not for these passports personally. We haven’t needed something like this for any other type of pathogen/disease. I’ve never had to show a negative TB card and they’re talking about annual vaccinations on COVID now. Technically they won’t be mandatory but you won’t be able to do shit like fly or go on vacation so basically if you want to have a life you’ll need to get the vaccine and show proof. Omnigun does make a good point that we do require proof of safety in other areas of our lives like for driving. I don’t believe that these comparisons to “nazis” and “fascist” are accurate. Why shouldn’t we have a vaccine passport to prove that we’ve been vaccinated? What rights do they actually violate?

changemyoil66

Re: Ethics of mandatory vaccinations
« Reply #1 on: April 22, 2021, 08:26:42 PM »
1 right is to freely travel between states. The government knows this and is working on backdoor type of restrictions.

Does someone with HIV need to show any type of paperwork when traveling, engaging in a relationship, work, eat at a restaurant?

Once a passport starts, where will it end? Like gun control, ban 1 part at a time (mags, foregrips, etc...).

Sent from my SM-G950U using Tapatalk

Glasser

Re: Ethics of mandatory vaccinations
« Reply #2 on: April 22, 2021, 08:32:54 PM »


Does someone with HIV need to show any type of paperwork when traveling, engaging in a relationship, work, eat at a restaurant?



The people screaming for you to get vaccinated are the same ones who decriminalized knowingly infecting someone with HIV / AIDS. None of this is about health and safety.

https://www.nbcnews.com/feature/nbc-out/new-california-law-reduces-penalty-knowingly-exposing-someone-hiv-n809416



 

drck1000

Re: Ethics of mandatory vaccinations
« Reply #3 on: April 22, 2021, 08:33:20 PM »
Meh. Already have fake vaxx cards...

[sarcasm\]

Flapp_Jackson

Re: Ethics of mandatory vaccinations
« Reply #4 on: April 22, 2021, 08:33:49 PM »
I have not seen anyone here successfully refute Omnigun on the issue of these passports. Perhaps he is right about them. I’m starting a new thread here because the COVID cult thread is so hard to follow so I figured a thread dedicated specifically to this issue would be ok (mods feel free to lock/delete if I’m wrong).

Now I am not for these passports personally. We haven’t needed something like this for any other type of pathogen/disease. I’ve never had to show a negative TB card and they’re talking about annual vaccinations on COVID now. Technically they won’t be mandatory but you won’t be able to do shit like fly or go on vacation so basically if you want to have a life you’ll need to get the vaccine and show proof. Omnigun does make a good point that we do require proof of safety in other areas of our lives like for driving. I don’t believe that these comparisons to “nazis” and “fascist” are accurate. Why shouldn’t we have a vaccine passport to prove that we’ve been vaccinated? What rights do they actually violate?

Name another disease we make people prove they have been vaccinated against to travel or attend ball games.

Name a disease that we require they inform us they DO have so they can be barred against similar activities.

When HIV/AIDS was first identified, and a test was developed to detect its presence, a person's HIV status was being used to terminate employment, ban from school sports and professional sports, from entering the military, etc.  We now take precautions (gloves, respirators, proper needle disposal, etc) to prevent infections rather than limiting what people with the infection can or can't do.

If the passports identified people ACTUALLY INFECTED AT THE TIME with COVID-19, like using a finger stick and blood sample, then I'd be all for it.  But the vaccine in no way means you are safe from infecting others.  It only means you are vaccinated.  The length of time since your last vaccination, how many shots you've had, and whether you've been exposed to anyone with the virus in the last couple of days factors in more than some vaccination passport.  People with both vaccination shots are still being tested positive.  Yet, they have a passport.  The uninfected guy with 2 teenage kids and a wife trying to visit a hospitalized relative will, however, be banned from flying if they don't all have passports.

The overall effectiveness of the passport system is in question.  What will it accomplish?  To me, it's a solution that doesn't fix anything.  It'll force people who don't trust the vaccine's longterm side effects to get the shot while guaranteeing nothing related to stopping the spread of the virus.

Then there's the high probability that there will be counterfeit passports or legit passports being sold/given out without the accompanying vaccinations.  That absolutely won't stop infections in any way.

Flying is already a massive invasion of our privacy and takes too much time and effort to clear the security hurdles.  Passports will be one more snafu to delay travel on top of the normal stack of snafus.
The reasonable man adapts himself to the world;
the unreasonable one persists in trying to adapt the world to himself.
Therefore, all progress depends on the unreasonable man.
-- George Bernard Shaw

Glasser

Re: Ethics of mandatory vaccinations
« Reply #5 on: April 22, 2021, 08:35:20 PM »
Meh. Already have fake vaxx cards...

[sarcasm\]

FBI thinks it might be a good idea to put you in prison for that.

https://www.wect.com/2021/04/16/fbi-warns-against-making-or-buying-fake-covid-vaccination-cards/

drck1000

Re: Ethics of mandatory vaccinations
« Reply #6 on: April 22, 2021, 08:38:41 PM »
FBI thinks it might be a good idea to put you in prison for that.

https://www.wect.com/2021/04/16/fbi-warns-against-making-or-buying-fake-covid-vaccination-cards/
Interesting. But my point was the vaxx card is about as verifiable as your SSN card.

omnigun

Re: Ethics of mandatory vaccinations
« Reply #7 on: April 22, 2021, 09:22:18 PM »
Name another disease we make people prove they have been vaccinated against to travel or attend ball games.

Name a disease that we require they inform us they DO have so they can be barred against similar activities.

When HIV/AIDS was first identified, and a test was developed to detect its presence, a person's HIV status was being used to terminate employment, ban from school sports and professional sports, from entering the military, etc.  We now take precautions (gloves, respirators, proper needle disposal, etc) to prevent infections rather than limiting what people with the infection can or can't do.

If the passports identified people ACTUALLY INFECTED AT THE TIME with COVID-19, like using a finger stick and blood sample, then I'd be all for it.  But the vaccine in no way means you are safe from infecting others.  It only means you are vaccinated.  The length of time since your last vaccination, how many shots you've had, and whether you've been exposed to anyone with the virus in the last couple of days factors in more than some vaccination passport.  People with both vaccination shots are still being tested positive.  Yet, they have a passport.  The uninfected guy with 2 teenage kids and a wife trying to visit a hospitalized relative will, however, be banned from flying if they don't all have passports.

The overall effectiveness of the passport system is in question.  What will it accomplish?  To me, it's a solution that doesn't fix anything.  It'll force people who don't trust the vaccine's longterm side effects to get the shot while guaranteeing nothing related to stopping the spread of the virus.

Then there's the high probability that there will be counterfeit passports or legit passports being sold/given out without the accompanying vaccinations.  That absolutely won't stop infections in any way.

Flying is already a massive invasion of our privacy and takes too much time and effort to clear the security hurdles.  Passports will be one more snafu to delay travel on top of the normal stack of snafus.

Many major pandemics.  The Spanish flu saw many of the same restrictions as our current pandemic and American survived without freedom lost. 

We already require privacy invasive passports to fly to other countries and ID cards for interstate airline travel.  So a passport for covid is nothing extreme.  Unless you are open borders passports are a necessity to prove citizenship and safety.

We require proof of vaccination for school and some jobs already for other viruses.

A business can already turn you away for not wearing shoes,  they can turn you away for not being vaccinated.

Israel has shown passports get more people vaccinated. Which brings everyone closer to herd immunity. Which is a good thing.  It also allows those vaccinated which have the least risk to get and pass covid the ability to resume social lives.  And contribute to the economy.

If a club can give permission to enter purely based off age, which is based off an ID.  And refuse you to enter for any reason including you being drunk, etc.  Then they can do the same with vaccinations.

And like the covid thread that need I remind you Israel the least nazi country in the world uses passports and other measures.

Other related items I can think of.  You need license/identification to purchase a certain drink with certain effects.  You need license/identification to smoke.  You need license/identification to go into certain venues like clubs.  You need license/identification to look at humans with no clothes.  You need license/identification to dispense medicine.  You need license/identification to prescribe medicine.  You need license/identification to clean teeth.  You need license/identification to travel.  You need license/identification to drive/fly.  You need license/identification to purchase guns. You need license/identification for hundreds of jobs and reasons. 
« Last Edit: April 22, 2021, 10:19:44 PM by omnigun »

omnigun

Re: Ethics of mandatory vaccinations
« Reply #8 on: April 22, 2021, 09:23:30 PM »
FBI thinks it might be a good idea to put you in prison for that.

https://www.wect.com/2021/04/16/fbi-warns-against-making-or-buying-fake-covid-vaccination-cards/

Good send them to jail. That's like fake ID and passports.

omnigun

Re: Ethics of mandatory vaccinations
« Reply #9 on: April 22, 2021, 09:31:42 PM »
1 right is to freely travel between states. The government knows this and is working on backdoor type of restrictions.

Does someone with HIV need to show any type of paperwork when traveling, engaging in a relationship, work, eat at a restaurant?

Once a passport starts, where will it end? Like gun control, ban 1 part at a time (mags, foregrips, etc...).

Sent from my SM-G950U using Tapatalk

Like previously argued HIV is not as lethal, is not easily spread.  And yes 100% you should need to show that you have HIV before engaging in behaviors like donating blood or sex that put others at risk.   Just like someone with covid should remain quarantined till they don't pose a threat anymore.

Passports have nothing to do with gun control.  With that arguments, background checks will lead to gun control, drivers licenses, voting records, medical charts. 

omnigun

Re: Ethics of mandatory vaccinations
« Reply #10 on: April 22, 2021, 09:32:33 PM »
The people screaming for you to get vaccinated are the same ones who decriminalized knowingly infecting someone with HIV / AIDS. None of this is about health and safety.

https://www.nbcnews.com/feature/nbc-out/new-california-law-reduces-penalty-knowingly-exposing-someone-hiv-n809416


Yeah those people are stupid and should be voted out.  I am strongly against that law.

Glasser

Re: Ethics of mandatory vaccinations
« Reply #11 on: April 22, 2021, 09:37:59 PM »
Interesting. But my point was the vaxx card is about as verifiable as your SSN card.

I concur, I personally found the FBI making empty threats of 'you MIGHT be breaking the law' pretty pathetic. 

QUIETShooter

Re: Ethics of mandatory vaccinations
« Reply #12 on: April 23, 2021, 06:31:14 AM »
The government is getting too big.  It's sticking it's nose and hands into every aspect of life.

Communism.
Sometimes you gotta know when to save your bullets.

changemyoil66

Re: Ethics of mandatory vaccinations
« Reply #13 on: April 23, 2021, 09:05:05 AM »
The government is getting too big.  It's sticking it's nose and hands into every aspect of life.

Communism.

Funny how 1 person is supposedly against more government control, but yet is 100% fine with vaxx passports. #facepalm

Kuleana

Re: Ethics of mandatory vaccinations
« Reply #14 on: April 23, 2021, 10:06:00 AM »
The government is getting too big.  It's sticking it's nose and hands into every aspect of life.

Communism.
Keep in mind, having a large central government that works to control every aspect of life, is akin to an empire as well.

Until the power okole nationalizes every business and confiscates private property, the predominant economic system in America is still neo-feudalism.  The banks, large landowners, and corporations on the top, an ever-decreasing merchant class, and everybody else on the bottom, with an insufficient bureaucratized welfare system, to placate the poor and have nots, so they don't get any ideas to overthrow the body politic.

hvybarrels

Re: Ethics of mandatory vaccinations
« Reply #15 on: April 23, 2021, 02:19:56 PM »
Why do you people hate freedom so much? Would you not feel more comfortable on Reddit with the rest of the bootlickers?
The F in Communism stands for Food

6716J

Re: Ethics of mandatory vaccinations
« Reply #16 on: April 23, 2021, 04:18:10 PM »
Commiefornia to mandate vaccinations for all students and faculty. Wonder how that's gonna work out for them financially.

I'd rather have a bottle in front of me, than a frontal lobotomy.

omnigun

Re: Ethics of mandatory vaccinations
« Reply #17 on: April 23, 2021, 04:27:27 PM »
Commiefornia to mandate vaccinations for all students and faculty. Wonder how that's gonna work out for them financially.



Great.  Most schools require vaccinations to attend.  This is nothing out of norm.

Flapp_Jackson

Re: Ethics of mandatory vaccinations
« Reply #18 on: April 23, 2021, 04:38:28 PM »
Great.  Most schools require vaccinations to attend.  This is nothing out of norm.

I've never known a single school that required a flu shot for attendance.

The reasonable man adapts himself to the world;
the unreasonable one persists in trying to adapt the world to himself.
Therefore, all progress depends on the unreasonable man.
-- George Bernard Shaw

hvybarrels

Re: Ethics of mandatory vaccinations
« Reply #19 on: April 23, 2021, 04:45:22 PM »
I've never known a single school that required a flu shot for attendance.

Some of them do, but not usually for questionable experimental drugs that specifically target diseases that young healthy people do not have to worry about
The F in Communism stands for Food