Carrying at home (Read 8145 times)

kptheplatypus

Carrying at home
« on: August 20, 2021, 05:43:43 PM »
Let’s say, hypothetically, that I live in an apartment building and would like to carry outside the house.

Would it be legal to carry outside (in the immediate yard area) right outside my door?

I know you can carry on private property or in your own house, but would that immediate yard/ grassy area be considered outside of my legal home area?

Asking for purely research purposes since we all follow the law.
“Speak softly and carry a big stick, you will go far” ~ Theodore Roosevelt

~ An armed society is a polite society

kptheplatypus

Re: Carrying at home
« Reply #1 on: August 20, 2021, 05:44:27 PM »
Let’s say, hypothetically, that I live in an apartment building and would like to carry outside the house.

Would it be legal to carry outside (in the immediate yard area) right outside my door?

I know you can carry on private property or in your own house, but would that immediate yard/ grassy area be considered outside of my legal home area? (I.e. public property?)

Asking for purely research purposes since we all follow the law.
“Speak softly and carry a big stick, you will go far” ~ Theodore Roosevelt

~ An armed society is a polite society

changemyoil66

Re: Carrying at home
« Reply #2 on: August 20, 2021, 05:53:20 PM »
I asked the AG if common areas are residence and they wouldnt give me an answer. Told to see a lawyer.



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kptheplatypus

Re: Carrying at home
« Reply #3 on: August 20, 2021, 06:03:07 PM »
I asked the AG if common areas are residence and they wouldnt give me an answer. Told to see a lawyer.

Politicians giving the rhetoric runaround makes me upset. Also, AG is a lawyer so should’ve told them to tell you 😂



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“Speak softly and carry a big stick, you will go far” ~ Theodore Roosevelt

~ An armed society is a polite society

ren

Re: Carrying at home
« Reply #4 on: August 20, 2021, 06:06:37 PM »
I asked the AG if common areas are residence and they wouldnt give me an answer. Told to see a lawyer.

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AG salary paid by the People but not servicing the People....typical Hawaii govt.
Deeds Not Words

changemyoil66

Re: Carrying at home
« Reply #5 on: August 20, 2021, 06:14:31 PM »
Not a lawyer, but i would say common areas are not allowed. But if someone is ccwing, it would be almost impossible to know.

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omnigun

Re: Carrying at home
« Reply #6 on: August 20, 2021, 06:42:33 PM »
Not a lawyer, but i would say common areas are not allowed. But if someone is ccwing, it would be almost impossible to know.

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Why would you think that?  You technically "own" a part of the common areas.  That's part of your property and thus your property rights.   You purchased a condo too,  they break down what %'ed of the land you own.  This is all assuming there is no rules in the condo association preventing you from carrying.  Then again I am not a lawyer either. 

kptheplatypus

Re: Carrying at home
« Reply #7 on: August 20, 2021, 07:02:41 PM »
Why would you think that?  You technically "own" a part of the common areas.  That's part of your property and thus your property rights.   You purchased a condo too,  they break down what %'ed of the land you own.  This is all assuming there is no rules in the condo association preventing you from carrying.  Then again I am not a lawyer either.

Perhaps I should’ve clarified first. I live in an apartment, but renting. I’m assuming common areas wouldn’t be allowed unless I owned the house, but that’s why I’m trying to find some answers 😂
“Speak softly and carry a big stick, you will go far” ~ Theodore Roosevelt

~ An armed society is a polite society

Tacozfail

Re: Carrying at home
« Reply #8 on: August 20, 2021, 07:12:09 PM »
While I don’t know the legality of it, I would caution you to read the HOA rules as a start.  Unfortunately as part of the agreement that you sign to purchase that property you agree to follow the association rules.  As others have said if the HOA has rules designating the common areas as “weapon-free” zones, you run the risk of being in violation.  Depending on the HOA and penalties they are allowed to enforce, it can be a simple fine and in some cases ability to evict.  That’s why I hate HOAs, it’s my house but they can tell me what colors I can paint it, what plants I have to keep, how much grass and what condition it has to be in.  To be fair I knew all that when I moved in but it doesn’t mean I like it.  The HOA makes the regulation but they don’t make the law.

What would be interesting to me would be what happens if an individual was ever reported to the police as having a firearm in public.  I for one wouldn’t want to test that in Hawaii as we all know this isn’t the most 2A friendly place.

While you may win the case eventually, the cost and impact on other areas of your life, IMO isn’t worth it.

Tacozfail

Re: Carrying at home
« Reply #9 on: August 20, 2021, 07:16:34 PM »
Even renting inside your good cause place of sojourn but outside, not so sure.  Especially since apartments are usually limited to only your residence (or parking stalls or storage areas) and all other areas are common areas.

Honestly it seems like best bet is consult an attorney if you really want to do it.

omnigun

Re: Carrying at home
« Reply #10 on: August 20, 2021, 07:19:46 PM »
Perhaps I should’ve clarified first. I live in an apartment, but renting. I’m assuming common areas wouldn’t be allowed unless I owned the house, but that’s why I’m trying to find some answers 😂

Yeah I can see that being a bit more tricky.  But in theory you are renting the unit and land right?  Not sure this is way past my abilities. 

Flapp_Jackson

Re: Carrying at home
« Reply #11 on: August 20, 2021, 07:33:08 PM »
My 2 cents ...

You can keep your firearm in your residence, place of business, or place of sojourn. 

That is not constrained by who owns the property.  If you live with your mother, her property is still your residence.  The issue there is, the owner has the right to prohibit firearms.  That includes apartment landlords.  When you sign a rental agreement, check to see if your guns are forbidden or not.

"Residence" stops at the entrance.  A common area is an amenity, whether or not it includes a pool, laundry room or meeting hall.  While you have access to use it, it's not part of your residence.

I'd say if the place can be controlled by you, and anyone else entering without your permission is trespassing, then you can carry there.  All common areas would be considered public spaces -- and we know CCW permits are all about being armed in public.  No permit ... no CCW in public.

I'm not a lawyer, but I have used a divorce attorney once.   :geekdanc: :shaka:
The reasonable man adapts himself to the world;
the unreasonable one persists in trying to adapt the world to himself.
Therefore, all progress depends on the unreasonable man.
-- George Bernard Shaw

changemyoil66

Re: Carrying at home
« Reply #12 on: August 20, 2021, 07:48:51 PM »
My 2 cents ...

You can keep your firearm in your residence, place of business, or place of sojourn. 

That is not constrained by who owns the property.  If you live with your mother, her property is still your residence.  The issue there is, the owner has the right to prohibit firearms.  That includes apartment landlords.  When you sign a rental agreement, check to see if your guns are forbidden or not.

"Residence" stops at the entrance.  A common area is an amenity, whether or not it includes a pool, laundry room or meeting hall.  While you have access to use it, it's not part of your residence.

I'd say if the place can be controlled by you, and anyone else entering without your permission is trespassing, then you can carry there.  All common areas would be considered public spaces -- and we know CCW permits are all about being armed in public.  No permit ... no CCW in public.

I'm not a lawyer, but I have used a divorce attorney once.   :geekdanc: :shaka:
Agreed with flapp. If u wanna listen to someone else who doesnt have the best track record, up to u. But challenge in court if arrested and keep us posted. Ill donate $ to your defense fund.

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kptheplatypus

Re: Carrying at home
« Reply #13 on: August 20, 2021, 07:50:19 PM »
My 2 cents ...

You can keep your firearm in your residence, place of business, or place of sojourn. 

That is not constrained by who owns the property.  If you live with your mother, her property is still your residence.  The issue there is, the owner has the right to prohibit firearms.  That includes apartment landlords.  When you sign a rental agreement, check to see if your guns are forbidden or not.

"Residence" stops at the entrance.  A common area is an amenity, whether or not it includes a pool, laundry room or meeting hall.  While you have access to use it, it's not part of your residence.

I'd say if the place can be controlled by you, and anyone else entering without your permission is trespassing, then you can carry there.  All common areas would be considered public spaces -- and we know CCW permits are all about being armed in public.  No permit ... no CCW in public.

I'm not a lawyer, but I have used a divorce attorney once.   :geekdanc: :shaka:

Haha as have I! Thanks Flapp, any advice or good judgments are appreciated and best bet for me right now is to play it safe unless/ until I learn otherwise is in my best interest
“Speak softly and carry a big stick, you will go far” ~ Theodore Roosevelt

~ An armed society is a polite society

macsak

Re: Carrying at home
« Reply #14 on: August 20, 2021, 07:57:53 PM »
Yeah I can see that being a bit more tricky.  But in theory you are renting the unit and land right?  Not sure this is way past my abilities.

if it's way past your abilities, why comment?

omnigun

Re: Carrying at home
« Reply #15 on: August 20, 2021, 08:11:39 PM »
My 2 cents ...

You can keep your firearm in your residence, place of business, or place of sojourn. 

That is not constrained by who owns the property.  If you live with your mother, her property is still your residence.  The issue there is, the owner has the right to prohibit firearms.  That includes apartment landlords.  When you sign a rental agreement, check to see if your guns are forbidden or not.

"Residence" stops at the entrance.  A common area is an amenity, whether or not it includes a pool, laundry room or meeting hall.  While you have access to use it, it's not part of your residence.

I'd say if the place can be controlled by you, and anyone else entering without your permission is trespassing, then you can carry there.  All common areas would be considered public spaces -- and we know CCW permits are all about being armed in public.  No permit ... no CCW in public.

I'm not a lawyer, but I have used a divorce attorney once.   :geekdanc: :shaka:

If residence stopped at the entrance (assuming you mean door)  then it would be illegal to carry in the yard.   I've witnessed OGC carrying in their parking lot area which would be outside "place of business"  if we go by door standards. 

https://www.hoaleader.com/public/Can-Youand-Should-YouRegulate-Guns-on-HOA-Common-Areas.cfm
https://www.delawareonline.com/story/news/crime/2014/03/18/nra-wins-delaware-supreme-court-ruling-on-public-housing-/6582109/

I can't find any precedent so yeah you would be a test case, and it might go all the way to the supreme court.   I would say do your own research and do what you are comfortable with.

I personally wouldn't.   Don't see enough upside.
« Last Edit: August 20, 2021, 08:25:33 PM by omnigun »

omnigun

Re: Carrying at home
« Reply #16 on: August 20, 2021, 08:24:04 PM »
if it's way past your abilities, why comment?

This is a forum, discussions are part of that experience.  Gotta see all the sides.  A decision made with only one side is an echo chamber.  (assuming there is no concrete answer)

changemyoil66

Re: Carrying at home
« Reply #17 on: August 20, 2021, 08:30:59 PM »
This is why dont listen to omni. 1 post he says why not carry in common areas. To seen owner of a business in a parking lot carrying, to then state he wouldnt carry.

Lots of details missing from his business owner example, which i wont get into because im done with his attitude.

I can forsee this being another needlessly long thread.

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Glasser

Re: Carrying at home
« Reply #18 on: August 20, 2021, 08:33:56 PM »
Omni has a point, its Yin and Yang. You cannot measure the worth of anything without some kind of scale with 2 ends. You have no way of knowing when people are giving you smart well thought out advice unless you also get to see how ludicrously stupid other ideas put forward might be. 

Keep holding up the dumbest end of the bell curve buddy, you are doing the world a great service.

changemyoil66

Re: Carrying at home
« Reply #19 on: August 20, 2021, 08:41:47 PM »
Omni has a point, its Yin and Yang. You cannot measure the worth of anything without some kind of scale with 2 ends. You have no way of knowing when people are giving you smart well thought out advice unless you also get to see how ludicrously stupid other ideas put forward might be. 

Keep holding up the dumbest end of the bell curve buddy, you are doing the world a great service.
Basically the last part. Its like CNN. If they're reporting it, its probably BS. If he's adding input, go opposite.

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