Trying to understand the PTA in respect to Rifles and Shotguns.

When applying for a PTA for a Rifle/Shotgun, there is no need to have the make, model, SN of the rifle/shotgun.  Also, the PTA is good for 1 year from issuance and can be used multiple times to acquire a rifle/shotgun.

If I went to a state, like Nevada, that literally has same day NICS verification and transfer of ownership the same day;  Is it within Hawaii law for me to buy a rifle/shotgun at one of those states and fly it back to Hawaii and register?   Assuming I had a current rifle/shotgun PTA that covers the days that I had physical possession of the rifle/shotgun.

I have read HPD website and tried to search on this site and didn't really find the answer.  Most of the discussion was about buying from out of state, like gunbroker.com, in which they send it to a FFL, or moving to Hawaii and bringing firearms with them.

Thanks

Believe you'd just be registering a firearm that you legally acquired from out of state upon your return. 

It's been a while since I looked into that.  However, the states that I was considering doing so you needed to be a resident to purchase the firearm I was researching.  So I ended up just dropping the plans.  That was maybe 4-5 years ago, but I don't believe anything has changed. 

Believe you'd just be registering a firearm that you legally acquired from out of state upon your return. 

It's been a while since I looked into that.  However, the states that I was considering doing so you needed to be a resident to purchase the firearm I was researching.  So I ended up just dropping the plans.  That was maybe 4-5 years ago, but I don't believe anything has changed.

If you buy out of state it will have to be a private sale, or establish a "residence" in that state.
For example I stay with my brother and will be registered to vote in WA state at his( my) address.
That establishes residency.  even if I spend most my time in Hawaii.
Waste of time to vote in Hawaii anyway.
 

You dont need a PTA for a gun u already own. Just need to reg when u are able to. Ige's proc waived the 5 day reg.



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Federal law prohibits the sale of most firearms (including handguns) directly to people who live in a different state from where the sale is taking place. 

Federal law does allow for interstate transfers of long guns to out-of-state buyers if (1) the seller is a licensed FFL dealer, and (2) the sale conforms to the laws of both the seller's and buyer's states.  So, if the only thing you need to do in Hawaii is show your long gun permit & ID, the same should be allowed in states that follow the ATF rule:

https://www.atf.gov/firearms/qa/may-licensee-sell-firearm-nonlicensee-who-resident-another-state

Generally, a firearm may not lawfully be sold by a licensee to a nonlicensee who resides in a State
other than the State in which the seller’s licensed premises is located. However, the sale may be made
if the firearm is shipped to a licensee whose business is in the purchaser’s State of residence and the
purchaser takes delivery of the firearm from the licensee in his or her State of residence. In addition,
a licensee may sell a rifle or shotgun to a person who is not a resident of the State where the licensee’s
business premises is located in an over–the–counter transaction, provided the transaction complies
with State law in the State where the licensee is located and in the State where the purchaser resides.

 

Of course, this might not be the case depending on state laws and gun store policy.  But, the last part of the quoted rule above means you can go to a gun store in, say, Texas, and take your long gun purchase home with you if you present your valid Hawaii long gun permit to the seller along with a valid ID.  At that point, it's no different than if you'd bought it in Hawaii.  Take it to the police station to register -- but as an out-of-state firearm.

If the seller in  the other state not a dealer, then they are required to ship the gun to an FFL in your state  -- no exceptions.  You'll pick up the gun from your FFL after returning home (obviously).  Having said that, unless the seller's state mandates that long gun owners must register their firearms, it's up to the seller to enforce this part of the law.

Nobody here does anything illegal.

Simple answer if you are visiting another state.

Yes you as a Hawaii resident can buy a long gun (rifle, shotgun) in any of the 50 states. Upon return to Hawaii with the firearm, you are supposed to register it within 5 days (currently suspended due to Covid emergency declarations).

No you cannot as a Hawaii resident buy a handgun in any other state. UNLESS, you purchase it and have it shipped to a Hawaii FFL for transfer. You cannot take possession of a handgun in another state. This is Federal law.


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Simple answer if you are visiting another state.

Yes you as a Hawaii resident can buy a long gun (rifle, shotgun) in any of the 50 states. Upon return to Hawaii with the firearm, you are supposed to register it within 5 days (currently suspended due to Covid emergency declarations).

No you cannot as a Hawaii resident buy a handgun in any other state. UNLESS, you purchase it and have it shipped to a Hawaii FFL for transfer. You cannot take possession of a handgun in another state. This is Federal law.


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I thought that if it was an in-person private transaction
you could buy or be gifted any pistol.
So My fathers pistols that he left me are illegal?
Or the 45 I bought from my brother?
I think not.
 

Trying to understand the PTA in respect to Rifles and Shotguns.

When applying for a PTA for a Rifle/Shotgun, there is no need to have the make, model, SN of the rifle/shotgun.  Also, the PTA is good for 1 year from issuance and can be used multiple times to acquire a rifle/shotgun.

If I went to a state, like Nevada, that literally has same day NICS verification and transfer of ownership the same day;  Is it within Hawaii law for me to buy a rifle/shotgun at one of those states and fly it back to Hawaii and register?   Assuming I had a current rifle/shotgun PTA that covers the days that I had physical possession of the rifle/shotgun.

I have read HPD website and tried to search on this site and didn't really find the answer.  Most of the discussion was about buying from out of state, like gunbroker.com, in which they send it to a FFL, or moving to Hawaii and bringing firearms with them.

Thanks

this is covered under "out of state firearm acquisition". regardless of how you acquire it, if you physically fly back with a firearm that you own that is not registered in hawaii, you do an "out of state firearm acquisition". basically you go to the registration side with the firearm, and fill out all of the PTA paperwork, and they process it and give you your registration at the same time. it takes about half an hour because they have to process the PTA paperwork along with the normal registration paperwork.

Simple answer if you are visiting another state.

Yes you as a Hawaii resident can buy a long gun (rifle, shotgun) in any of the 50 states. Upon return to Hawaii with the firearm, you are supposed to register it within 5 days (currently suspended due to Covid emergency declarations).

No you cannot as a Hawaii resident buy a handgun in any other state. UNLESS, you purchase it and have it shipped to a Hawaii FFL for transfer. You cannot take possession of a handgun in another state. This is Federal law.


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I thought that if it was an in-person private transaction
you could buy or be gifted any pistol.
So My fathers pistols that he left me are illegal?
Or the 45 I bought from my brother?
I think not.
 

Family transfers are a whole different item and covered under the NFA and ATF rules.

Purchasing requires background checks, etc.

............................................................................

https://www.atf.gov/resource-center/docs/0501-firearms-top-10-qaspdf/download

https://www.atf.gov/resource-center/docs/0813-firearms-top-12-qaspdf/download

Soo. . . OP, what are you looking to get? 

You cannot take possession of a handgun in another state. This is Federal law.

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But if you are a convicted felon or a want to be felon, then you get da ainokea exemption and can do what you like.

But if you are a convicted felon or a want to be felon, then you get da ainokea exemption and can do what you like.

That's a blanket exception for every law.

Laws are not intended to prevent behavior.  They are only intended (and capable) of punishing behavior afterward.

That's a blanket exception for every law.

Laws are not intended to prevent behavior.  They are only intended (and capable) of punishing behavior afterward.

I beg to differ. Laws DO prevent unlawful behavior, but only among the law abiding folks like us. That is why I don't make myself a suppressor (something very easy to do) because there is a law against it.

I beg to differ. Laws DO prevent unlawful behavior, but only among the law abiding folks like us. That is why I don't make myself a suppressor (something very easy to do) because there is a law against it.

What I said is that the law is not intended to prevent behavior.  It can only punish us after we do the wrong thing.

You, a law-abiding person, are making a choice to follow the law.  Had you made a different choice, would that law have prevented you from acting on your desires to make a suppressor?  Of course not.

When you exercise free will, there are usually consequences associated.  If the consequences are based on laws prohibiting the act, it's still your choice to follow the law or accept the consequences if caught.  You're simply factoring in the legal penalties with all the other benefits and risks associated with your possible choices.

If the penalty for making a suppressor was a $25 fine & no criminal charges -- basically a ticket -- you'd still be breaking the law making one, but the consequences are now much less severe.  Now you must decide if the law really prevents you from making a suppressor (still illegal), or if the penalty for that behavior is something you're willing to accept if caught.

It's not the law that keeps you on the legal path, but your fear of consequences and hopefully your sense of right and wrong. 

The law CAN NOT PREVENT you from breaking it.  It can make the consequences so severe that you're unwilling to take the risk -- still free will, though. 

We all know the little saying, "Just because you CAN doesn't mean you SHOULD."

The opposite is also true:  "Just because you SHOULDN'T doesn't mean you CAN'T."

Even if the penalty for breaking a law was only a dollar and no other penalty,  none of us here would break the law because we are all law abiding citizens. 

Even if the penalty for breaking a law was only a dollar and no other penalty,  none of us here would break the law because we are all law abiding citizens.

I agree that the penalty can deter someone from breaking a law.  However, a minimum penalty may not provide enough incentive to deter a unlawful act.  Speeding is more than a dollar and many people still speed.  Jaywalking is more than a dollar and many people still jaywalk.  However, if the speeding was a Class C felony even if it was 1 mph over the limit, that would probably stop people from speeding.  If jaywalking was a Class C felony, that would deter people from jaywalking.

Religious or not, there is wisdom in the saying "He that is without sin among you, let him first cast a stone".  I am law abiding in that I will not intentionally kill someone, drive drunk, or push a person into on coming traffic.  However, there will be occasion when I am 10mph over the speed limit, cross  a street at a convenient location, ride my bike against traffic and other minor violation of the law.

Soo. . . OP, what are you looking to get?

I was thinking about getting a Shotgun, IWI TS12 caught my eye.  Actually all the tactical shotgun in a bullpup form factor look interesting.  I don't have a lot of experience other than the familiarization fire when I was station in Korea circa mid 1990s. Very different kick than the M16A2 but it was a hoot to shot.

Anyway the reason for my original question was that I have a trip coming up to Nevada.  It looks like Nevada sells rifles/shotgun to out of state customers as long as it is in person (Online/Over Phone requires shipping to FFL).  The only thing that concerns me is that the 1 day to do background check, is taking about 3 days due to COVID.  At least that is what I am reading from the internet.  So this might be a no-go for my up coming trip.

I agree that the penalty can deter someone from breaking a law.  However, a minimum penalty may not provide enough incentive to deter a unlawful act.  Speeding is more than a dollar and many people still speed.  Jaywalking is more than a dollar and many people still jaywalk.  However, if the speeding was a Class C felony even if it was 1 mph over the limit, that would probably stop people from speeding.  If jaywalking was a Class C felony, that would deter people from jaywalking.

Religious or not, there is wisdom in the saying "He that is without sin among you, let him first cast a stone".  I am law abiding in that I will not intentionally kill someone, drive drunk, or push a person into on coming traffic.  However, there will be occasion when I am 10mph over the speed limit, cross  a street at a convenient location, ride my bike against traffic and other minor violation of the law.

Another factor not included yet is your possibility of getting caught as you see it.

People know when & where most of the speed traps are in their area and will slow down accordingly.  Jaywalkers don't cross directly in front of a cop. 

People commit crimes more readily when they think they will not get caught.  No need to consider the penalty if you aren't afraid of being charged.

If you're careful enough, you can speed and jaywalk your whole life without getting caught or suffering any consequences.

#
Of course, you didn't actually break the law unless it was proven in court!  Only a judge/jury can determine what is "true". 
#Sarcasm

Since this discussion about breaking the law is derailing the subject of buying rifles and shotguns, can we move it to Omni's Religion thread and derail that one?

I was thinking about getting a Shotgun, IWI TS12 caught my eye.  Actually all the tactical shotgun in a bullpup form factor look interesting.  I don't have a lot of experience other than the familiarization fire when I was station in Korea circa mid 1990s. Very different kick than the M16A2 but it was a hoot to shot.

Anyway the reason for my original question was that I have a trip coming up to Nevada.  It looks like Nevada sells rifles/shotgun to out of state customers as long as it is in person (Online/Over Phone requires shipping to FFL).  The only thing that concerns me is that the 1 day to do background check, is taking about 3 days due to COVID.  At least that is what I am reading from the internet.  So this might be a no-go for my up coming trip.

Nevada background checks take about 5-30 minutes depending on the day and time. Weekends are busier, but mid-week is quick. The LGS calls the State Police and they return the yes/no right then. If you have a week, do a CCW class on the first day, go apply for your NV CCW right after you get your affidavit and you probably can pick up the permit before you leave town. NV has a requirement to pick up in person, they will not mail it to you. Or take the affidavit and apply for the AZ which will be mailed to you.