If any of y’all need someone to vent to, listen, bounce ideas off off, etc, don’t be afraid to reach out. Seriously…

Had some encounters with friends and coworkers recently that opened my eyes more to this subject. One was a buddy who was having some difficulties with unfolding events in Afghanistan. It started with him venting in normal “guy talk”. Then over some beers, more came out.  Particularly how some of his other buddies were having a difficult time and many of them looked to him for guidance as their leader from back in the day. Anyways, he was able to vent, but someone I’ll definitely check in on more often.

Second example is that I’m back to formally begin a supervisor after not being in that position for over 10 years. There was a suicide prevention and awareness thing recently and I forward that to to staff with a note sharing some things. Anyways, one emailed me with venting and today, another came to my office and shared quite a bit. My staff are mostly folks I’ve known for years and a couple of them are good friends. The one who came to my office today is one who I consider a good friend, who just so happens is on my team now. The conversation started has him venting another work and then took what I felt was a strange turn. Didn’t know where he was going with things at first. I thought he was gonna quit. It turned out that he was going through some things. He told me that he didn’t feel he could discuss some of those things with say his wife or family. That took me by surprise at first, but the more we chatted, made more sense. At the end of the convo, it did seem like a weight had been lifted off his shoulders.

We get in each other here and all, but mostly in fun. At least for me. But we are a 2a community with common interests.  Sometimes we need to take a step back and remember that.

We have plenty of threads for bickering, let’s keep this one more on track please.

Have a friend who served in Afghanistan, he is now a mid-level officer rank and he talked about how bad the suicide rate was among his soldiers. He was going through a rough patch at home and though we didn't talk about suicide with regards to him I can probably guarantee he thought about it. I have seen enough suicides to last me a lifetime. Taking a life and being in violent combat up close is a real hard thing for the human brain.

Beers is always a good ice breaker for guys to open up but generally bad for anyone suicidal. I have to remind myself that if anyone calls me for help instead of saying lets grab a beer I should say lets grab a coffee. With guys especially it can be real hard to bring up the subject, there just seems to be a natural barrier to it, best we can mutter is "you doing ok bro?". I know a guy at work that really seems to despise being at home with his wife and it stresses him out. Other coworkers tell me to stay out of his business when I voice concern but I also feel compelled to do something to read out to him. I don't think him suicidal but I don't think he is in a healthy marriage and if he went through a very ugly divorce and lost his kid who knows where that would push him.

Just gotta keep livin’ Man.


Great message though. (First 18 seconds.)
Just keep livin’
Step one.

I hear you loud and clear though drck.

Have a friend who served in Afghanistan, he is now a mid-level officer rank and he talked about how bad the suicide rate was among his soldiers. He was going through a rough patch at home and though we didn't talk about suicide with regards to him I can probably guarantee he thought about it. I have seen enough suicides to last me a lifetime. Taking a life and being in violent combat up close is a real hard thing for the human brain.

Beers is always a good ice breaker for guys to open up but generally bad for anyone suicidal. I have to remind myself that if anyone calls me for help instead of saying lets grab a beer I should say lets grab a coffee. With guys especially it can be real hard to bring up the subject, there just seems to be a natural barrier to it, best we can mutter is "you doing ok bro?". I know a guy at work that really seems to despise being at home with his wife and it stresses him out. Other coworkers tell me to stay out of his business when I voice concern but I also feel compelled to do something to read out to him. I don't think him suicidal but I don't think he is in a healthy marriage and if he went through a very ugly divorce and lost his kid who knows where that would push him.

Regarding military and suicide, it's staggering.  I know many who have good friends who have taken their lives.  Personally, none who are really close friends.  I had an uncle when I was little who took his own life, but that was after cancer came back a second time and I believe he had enough. 

Everyone will deal with things in their way.  As for beers, if that's not right for your or folks around you, so be it.  For me, it's a good way to relax and bond with folks, especially my good friends.  Sure, if I even suspected someone was suicidal, it would approach things differently.  Ever since HS, I've always had folks confide in me.  Lately, even my buddies' kids.  Sometimes its things I can't really relate to, but I've found that many times it doesn't really matter.  Yeah, some are looking for help, but many times I believe many are just looking to vent, validate their thoughts/feelings, know they aren't the only one going through that, etc.  In my case, I shared my experience in caring for loved ones and while I was happy to do so, that it took a toll on me.  A toll that I didn't really until afterwards. 

As for barriers, I can only speak from personal experience.  If you're anyone other than close family or friend, one "you ok" is good, second shows you care.  Anything beyond that is you not respecting boundaries.  You do what you want of course.  If someone is ready to open up to you, no amount of "you good bro?" is going to suddenly flip the switch.  You've showed that you care, that you are willing to listen, etc.  Personally, that's all I think you can do.  You start forcing yourself in, personally, that would only make me shut you out even more.  I have something on my mind that I'm dealing with, last thing I need is for someone pushing the issue when I'm not ready to open up about it.  Anyways, my 0.02. . .

Just gotta keep livin’ Man.
SNIP

Great message though. (First 18 seconds.)
Just keep livin’
Step one.

I hear you loud and clear though drck.

I may be an a$$hole, but sometimes I care. . . sometimes. . . 

Let them know that you are there for them.

That when they are ready they know there is someone willing to listen.

Let them know that you are there for them.

That when they are ready they know there is someone willing to listen.

Yup.  Even virtually, I'm here for you. . . seriously

Yeah, I've been part of a supporting situations where is was almost an intervention.  In one case, a good buddy (best friend's brother, who is also a super close friend) was lashing out when drinking.  Not to or at us, but still.  His bro setup a dinner at my place for "da boyz" and he ended up venting quite a lot and got him to open up on stuff.  Are there times where one can or should be more forceful?  I think so.  But in general, "I'm here for you if you" and showing along the way that that's not just lip service I think is important. 

sometimes close relatives express despair and dark thoughts

I do let them know that I'm there for them anytime and sometimes I ask the person to help me do stuff to get them busy and useful.
That helps a lot.

sometimes close relatives express despair and dark thoughts

I do let them know that I'm there for them anytime and sometimes I ask the person to help me do stuff to get them busy and useful.
That helps a lot.

My dad was like that.  Not despair, but mostly "lonelier thoughts" since my mom had passed many years prior.  But being super stubborn, had to approach in a similar "keep busy" approach.  Asking him if he wanted to do this or that.  But if put in a "help me with this", he would go along with it.  Except for stuff like gun show or visit LGS, he was always down for that.   

In the Va clinic, like clockwork they always ask " do you want to hurt yourself or somebody else"?
I never answer them truthfully. There is a lot of people I want to hurt, but don't.
Seriously, it is hard to deal with suicidal people, but just listening to them seems to
defuse explosive conditions.
I had a cousin that concerned me so much, that  I went so far as to call his local  police
for a safety check, when his phone went dead after we had talked for three- four hours.
In reality he had passed out.
The last people in the world I'd call is the police, so I was VERY concerned for him.
He was also 3000 miles away,  One of his church people had stopped by,  found him,
and took care of things.  They stepped in,  got him sobered up and emotional support.
They nursed him back from a very bad mental place.  Not everybody is religious, but
religion may be useful to have around, when your soul is hurting.
BTW cops never showed up.  Which was good. My cousin had some guns laying out in the open
in his house.

I am not a religious man.
But I fully support it.
I’ve multiple people come back from dark places after they found religion.

Everyone will deal with things in their way.  As for beers, if that's not right for your or folks around you, so be it.  For me, it's a good way to relax and bond with folks, especially my good friends.  Sure, if I even suspected someone was suicidal, it would approach things differently.  Ever since HS, I've always had folks confide in me.  Lately, even my buddies' kids.  Sometimes its things I can't really relate to, but I've found that many times it doesn't really matter.  Yeah, some are looking for help, but many times I believe many are just looking to vent, validate their thoughts/feelings, know they aren't the only one going through that, etc.  In my case, I shared my experience in caring for loved ones and while I was happy to do so, that it took a toll on me.  A toll that I didn't really until afterwards. 

As for barriers, I can only speak from personal experience.  If you're anyone other than close family or friend, one "you ok" is good, second shows you care.  Anything beyond that is you not respecting boundaries.  You do what you want of course.  If someone is ready to open up to you, no amount of "you good bro?" is going to suddenly flip the switch.  You've showed that you care, that you are willing to listen, etc.  Personally, that's all I think you can do.  You start forcing yourself in, personally, that would only make me shut you out even more.  I have something on my mind that I'm dealing with, last thing I need is for someone pushing the issue when I'm not ready to open up about it.  Anyways, my 0.02. . .

I am not going to go preach to someone suffering depression that must not be drinking, I just am not going to contribute to it by taking him out drinking because I know that the alcohol is going to do more harm than it would help. Suicide and alcohol have a high correlation. The friend I mentioned quit drinking as part of trying to help fix his marriage and it was amazing how much weight they both lost just from that. Whenever we went to their house for a BBQ I didn't even bring alcohol for myself just so I didn't tempt him.

As for my coworker I think that I have decided to do was just to bring him a relationship book I liked and leave it on his desk with a post just saying it helped me and I recommend it, read if you like and return or keep if it helps.

I am not going to go preach to someone suffering depression that must not be drinking, I just am not going to contribute to it by taking him out drinking because I know that the alcohol is going to do more harm than it would help. Suicide and alcohol have a high correlation. The friend I mentioned quit drinking as part of trying to help fix his marriage and it was amazing how much weight they both lost just from that. Whenever we went to their house for a BBQ I didn't even bring alcohol for myself just so I didn't tempt him.

As for my coworker I think that I have decided to do was just to bring him a relationship book I liked and leave it on his desk with a post just saying it helped me and I recommend it, read if you like and return or keep if it helps.

My point was that many times you don’t know someone is “suffering depression”.  At least from what I’ve experienced.  That in general, I’ve found that relaxed conversation, which usually happens over drinks, maybe just food, is when I’ve often found that folks often have opened up.  Can it happen otherwise?  Sure.  In my recent cases, folks that shared came out of the blue.  Should I have noticed?  With my buddy, maybe.  With my coworker, I don’t think so.  To the point where I think he came to talk to me and was maybe 50/50 now that I look back at it.  As in he was reaching out, sort of like he was looking out for me, then conversation turned to what was on his mind.  I think that I just listened, and didn’t judge, is where he decided to open up. 

My point was that many times you don’t know someone is “suffering depression”.  At least from what I’ve experienced.  That in general, I’ve found that relaxed conversation, which usually happens over drinks, maybe just food, is when I’ve often found that folks often have opened up.  Can it happen otherwise?  Sure.  In my recent cases, folks that shared came out of the blue.  Should I have noticed?  With my buddy, maybe.  With my coworker, I don’t think so.  To the point where I think he came to talk to me and was maybe 50/50 now that I look back at it.  As in he was reaching out, sort of like he was looking out for me, then conversation turned to what was on his mind.  I think that I just listened, and didn’t judge, is where he decided to open up.

Agreed, sometimes there are warning signs and sometimes there aren't. It is good that they got the courage to talk to you and felt they could talk to you.

Agreed, sometimes there are warning signs and sometimes there aren't. It is good that they got the courage to talk to you and felt they could talk to you.

Yeah.  I appreciated what it took to come to me and share.  For my coworker, I was totally shocked.  Conversation started with a blow up he had with someone on another team that we work with and I had a talk with the other person to see what happened.  Could see "something else" going on as he was raising his voice on something that I felt was nothing.  Another coworker came to see me in my office and he gave me a "there's other things I need to talk to you about" and left.  I was like "oh eff me, he's going to quit".  Anyways, I talk to him later and he starts in about concerns about my stress, etc.  I'm like "uh, thanks, but where is this going".  I forget how the convo went, but it took a while and then ended up on his personal issues.  Could tell he was having a tough time getting it out, but I think in the earlier parts of the conversation, I share some things that I and another coworker had been going through previously.  I think that tipped things to where he could open up. 

On lighter note.....
Divorce is an effective weight loss solution. Ask me how I know.

That's how my ex-wife maintains her slim figure.   

Kind of related, just know that if any gun owner seeks professional help, they will require a clearance letter or get your guns taken away.  This is the down fall of the mental health check law.  It would prevent someone who needs help from seeking it.

Or pay cash and don't give your real name.  Nothing against the law about remaining anonymous.

Also our red flag law if you choose to vent to a coworker, teacher, family member, significant other.  Fortunately, a friend cannot red flag you, but the others can.

Kind of related, just know that if any gun owner seeks professional help, they will require a clearance letter or get your guns taken away.  This is the down fall of the mental health check law.  It would prevent someone who needs help from seeking it.

Or pay cash and don't give your real name.  Nothing against the law about remaining anonymous.

Also our red flag law if you choose to vent to a coworker, teacher, family member, significant other.  Fortunately, a friend cannot red flag you, but the others can.

I don't believe that to necessarily be true.  I believe that it certainly puts one at risk of that happening, say if you got a certain provider or medical system.  However, I have had friends who owned guns who sought counseling for various reasons.  One being divorce.  Not a medical professional or psych of course, but I recall there being certain lines.  Yeah, certain providers or systems may have a blanket approach, that is a risk.  However, I wouldn't go so far as to say it you seek help, you'll lose your guns. 

I don't believe that to necessarily be true.  I believe that it certainly puts one at risk of that happening, say if you got a certain provider or medical system.  However, I have had friends who owned guns who sought counseling for various reasons.  One being divorce.  Not a medical professional or psych of course, but I recall there being certain lines.  Yeah, certain providers or systems may have a blanket approach, that is a risk.  However, I wouldn't go so far as to say it you seek help, you'll lose your guns.

I had a friend see a marriage counselor and 5 years later got a letter from HPD to get clearance letter or turn in all guns.  And in that 5 year period, he did buy many guns and was never stopped by HPD.  That counselor retired, so he had to see another one and pay $200/hr just to get the waiver.  He divorced his wife 4 years prior to the letter from HPD.  They gave him 30 days to get the waiver or turn in all guns and ammo.

Another friend saw a psychologist because he got gastric bypass and it was a requirement.  He too received a letter from HPD to turn in all guns in 30 days or get a waiver. Luckily for him, he was able to get the waiver from the psychologist.

So I guess it does come down to who your provider is and if HPD audits and finds you.  So it is a risk that 1 will have to take, which 1 shouldn't have to take at all if they need help.

I had a friend see a marriage counselor and 5 years later got a letter from HPD to get clearance letter or turn in all guns.  And in that 5 year period, he did buy many guns and was never stopped by HPD.  That counselor retired, so he had to see another one and pay $200/hr just to get the waiver.  He divorced his wife 4 years prior to the letter from HPD.  They gave him 30 days to get the waiver or turn in all guns and ammo.

Another friend saw a psychologist because he got gastric bypass and it was a requirement.  He too received a letter from HPD to turn in all guns in 30 days or get a waiver. Luckily for him, he was able to get the waiver from the psychologist.

So I guess it does come down to who your provider is and if HPD audits and finds you.  So it is a risk that 1 will have to take, which 1 shouldn't have to take at all if they need help.

Ya.  I wasn't saying that it doesn't happen.  Just to be careful on that type of blanket statement, especially maybe not having all of the facts of the situation. 

There's also reporting practices.  I am thinking some providers ** cough Kaiser cough ** flags say any counseling.  I would see so many conditions/situations where folks could benefit or need counseling and have ZERO concerns about gun ownership.  At least IMO.  There's also seeking counseling on your own dime (like you said above) and outside insurance coverage. 

That said, I am hoping that with better awareness, maybe less folks will need to go the professional route.  Maybe naive of me, but that was my rationale for this thread.