Just want to confirm, 80% is illegal to purchase without having a PTA and if purchasing online must ship to FFL?

If you own one prior to the law you have until 1 Jan 2022 to register?

I thought it would be a good personal project to put together a Poly 80.

Thanks


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Just want to confirm, 80% is illegal to purchase without having a PTA and if purchasing online must ship to FFL?

If you own one prior to the law you have until 1 Jan 2022 to register?

I thought it would be a good personal project to put together a Poly 80.

Thanks


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Not a direct answer, but you can get a P80 (or similar) frame that doesn’t come with a serial number, which would technically mean it isn't firearm and does not need a PTA to attain. But that’s a legally controversial subject, just for your SA.

The FFL would have to have it serialized or it must already be serialized prior to arriving to tthe FFL.  Which means you will need a PTA to buy it because it is now more than 80% complete with the serial number. The question is by adding a serial number, does it now make it more than 80% complete, compared to drilling or removing material.  Someone can chime in on this one.

If you already own a P80 that is 80% only complete, it is illegal.  They passed a bill that removes any retroactive date.

If said P80 is more than 80% complete, you have to register it.  But  you do have the option to register it once HPD's reg website is available.  Or if you want, you can go down to HPD in person if you don't want to wait for their website to be operational.

Not a direct answer, but you can get a P80 (or similar) frame that doesn’t come with a serial number, which would technically mean it isn't firearm and does not need a PTA to attain. But that’s a legally controversial subject, just for your SA.

80% receivers, or basically anything you intend to make into a firearm, are treated the same as firearms in Hawaii with the passage of the 2 ghost gun bills.

80% receivers, or basically anything you intend to make into a firearm, are treated the same as firearms in Hawaii with the passage of the 2 ghost gun bills.

So if I buy a poly 80, no holes drilled, as long as I have no intention to make it fully operational, it’s legal.  Say I want to display it like a museum piece hearkening back to one of  Hawaii asinine gun laws.


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So if I buy a poly 80, no holes drilled, as long as I have no intention to make it fully operational, it’s legal.  Say I want to display it like a museum piece hearkening back to one of  Hawaii asinine gun laws.


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Or paperweight

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Add in possession for the law passed this year but didn't update in the HRS books yet.

     [§134-10.2]  Manufacturing, purchasing, or obtaining firearm parts to assemble a firearm having no serial number; penalty.  (a)  A person who is not licensed to manufacture a firearm under section 134-31, or who is not a dealer licensed by the United States Department of Justice, shall not, for the purpose of assembling a firearm, purchase, produce with a three-dimensional printer, or otherwise obtain separately, or as part of a kit:

     (1)  A firearm receiver that is not imprinted with a serial number registered with a federally licensed manufacturer;

     (2)  A firearm receiver that has not been provided a serial number that may be registered in accordance with section 134-3(c); or

     (3)  Any combination of parts from which a firearm having no serial number may be readily assembled; provided that the parts do not have the capacity to function as a firearm unless assembled.

     (b)  Violation of this section is a class C felony. [L 2020, c 74, §3]

Add in possession for the law passed this year but didn't update in the HRS books yet.

     [§134-10.2]  Manufacturing, purchasing, or obtaining firearm parts to assemble a firearm having no serial number; penalty.  (a)  A person who is not licensed to manufacture a firearm under section 134-31, or who is not a dealer licensed by the United States Department of Justice, shall not, for the purpose of assembling a firearm, purchase, produce with a three-dimensional printer, or otherwise obtain separately, or as part of a kit:

     (1)  A firearm receiver that is not imprinted with a serial number registered with a federally licensed manufacturer;

     (2)  A firearm receiver that has not been provided a serial number that may be registered in accordance with section 134-3(c); or

     (3)  Any combination of parts from which a firearm having no serial number may be readily assembled; provided that the parts do not have the capacity to function as a firearm unless assembled.

     (b)  Violation of this section is a class C felony. [L 2020, c 74, §3]

The statute has been updated:
https://www.capitol.hawaii.gov/hrscurrent/Vol03_Ch0121-0200D/HRS0134/HRS_0134-0010_0002.htm

Whether you produce the receiver from a 79%, 80% or 81% blank is irrelevant.  You can use a 3D Printer and start at 0%.  The Hawaii Law doesn't require a certain degree of completion.

As usual, Hawaii Law is ambiguous.  What constitutes a firearm receiver?  Obviously an 80% lower is considered a receiver, because it requires a serial number when purchased.  The statute defines a "Firearm Receiver" as...

"Firearm receiver" means the part of a firearm that provides housing for the firearm's internal components,
including a hammer, bolt, breechblock, action, or firing mechanism.  "Firearm receiver" includes any object
or part that is not a firearm frame or receiver in finished form but that is designed or intended to be used for
that purpose and may readily be made into a firearm frame or receiver through milling or other means.

They ignored the ATF rules and made up their own.
https://www.atf.gov/firearms/qa/are-%E2%80%9C80%E2%80%9D-or-%E2%80%9Cunfinished%E2%80%9D-receivers-illegal

I often wonder about laws that require "intent".  Is there any sort of time factor on that?  I mean, what if I buy 10 receiver blanks, tape them up in a box, and set them in a storage locker, never intending to complete them unless there's a need to?  Since no one can predict if that need will ever present itself, the intent to complete them can't be established, can it?  It's true of anything that has a contingency requirement.  I will do this if that happens.  The future intent is contingency-based and not certain.

In the meantime, I intend to store the objects indefinitely.  Or maybe sell them if the market price increases.  Or maybe give them as gifts.  They may never be milled while I own them.

...

.

Home Depot plumbing section now requires an FFL

so, an 80% receiver with a serial number is no longer a ghost gun?  serial number being some form a deep-engraved (ATF-compliant) not-stupid alphanumeric?  seems like if it has a serial number, that excepts it from this verbiage?

asking for a friend...

If I read what you repeated from your friend correctly, then "yes".

An 80% is treated no differently from a completed stripped receiver.  It needs a serial number.  If the gun is metal, then engraving is fine.  if it is polymer, you need to attach a metal plate with the serial number -- similar to a Glock pistol.  They use a small metal plate embedded in the frame with the number.

Glock Serial Plate:


Here's a pic from a polymer 80% receiver retailer showing the serialization plate embedded in the blank.  You also need to have the caliber and maker's name engraved on the frame to satisfy registration rules.

You can have the manufacturer do the engraving, which is required when shipping to Hawaii.



This also applies to 3D printed frames:

On firearms assembled from parts created using a three-dimensional printer, the serial number
shall be engraved on stainless steel and permanently embedded to the firearm receiver during
fabrication or construction.

https://www.capitol.hawaii.gov/hrscurrent/Vol03_Ch0121-0200D/HRS0134/HRS_0134-0003.htm

I was searching the internet and notice that Sig Sauer has a P320 FCU, which is considered the gun.  i.e. it has a serial number and must be shipped to a FFL or sold by gun store.   The FCU can fit multiple frames depending on what you want to shoot.  9mm, 40sw, 357sig.  So, is the P320 frame consider a 80% lower?  Meaning you have to register the FCU and the Frame?

I was searching the internet and notice that Sig Sauer has a P320 FCU, which is considered the gun.  i.e. it has a serial number and must be shipped to a FFL or sold by gun store.   The FCU can fit multiple frames depending on what you want to shoot.  9mm, 40sw, 357sig.  So, is the P320 frame consider a 80% lower?  Meaning you have to register the FCU and the Frame?

The design of the P320 is to make it modular, so you register one "firearm," and have the ability to reconfigure that to a variety of calibers and sizes.  There are countries that limit the number of firearms one can own, and this was marketed primarily to those people.  One functioning firearm with the flexibility to turn it into several other handguns.

So, no, the Sig Sauer X-Change Kits that include the frame, barrel, slide and mags are not considered firearms.  The serial number "migrates" from frame to frame, so no matter which version you assemble, it will be the only firearm -- legally serialized and registered.

It's an interesting question, though.  I can see a P320 owner having to go before a judge and explain why the X-Change kit is technically not a firearm.

The law is very badly worded on what exactly a receiver is.  In the old days this may have applied but firearms are so varied now that it's basically impossible to create a definition.  On an AR15 it would be the upper receiver, lower receiver, maybe even the bolt carrier and other stuff.  Same with the P320.  It's the reason the ATF dropped their prosecution of the 80% lower manufacturer and settled.  They knew it was a losing case and the judge would set a precedent to invalidate a lot of other gun laws.  Same is true with our "ghost gun" law.  The State would lose the case if they charged someone with it, if the person charged had enough money to fight it.

Hawaii's and the Feds laws will eventually be overturned in civil court someday.  Here or in another state.

pretty soon, a PTA will be required to purchase a DeWalt DWP611.

You can order them and have them delivered to your house, but in Hawaii it is illegal. After Sept. 15,2020 All 80% are illegal in Hawaii. If you bought it prior to that date, and can prove it, Deros does say you have until Jan 1,2022 to build and register.
If you would like a polymer 80 frame, WGS sells them serialized. When I got mine in the summer it was $175 from WGS. An 80% frame from JSDsupply.com was $149, so it's easier to get it local. The extra cost would be eaten up by having someone laser engrave a serial number anyway.

Just want to confirm, 80% is illegal to purchase without having a PTA and if purchasing online must ship to FFL?

If you own one prior to the law you have until 1 Jan 2022 to register?

I thought it would be a good personal project to put together a Poly 80.

Thanks


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

pretty soon, a PTA will be required to purchase a DeWalt DWP611.

Not just a DeWalt. The new law would apply to ALL screw guns. 

It is truly retarded that since the federal law allows 80% frames, there is nothing stopping a seller from shipping one here. They just put a disclaimer"check with your local laws......" The law only makes it illegal to try to make your project legal. To me it defeats the purpose of getting ghost guns off the street. A law that makes sure they stay unregistered.
I believe they can be legally made and registered by a gunsmith, but by the time you add that cost, it's cheaper to buy serialized. And either way it takes the fun out of the building it yourself.
I should add, the serialized version is completely assembled. Add an upper and you're done.

So if I buy a poly 80, no holes drilled, as long as I have no intention to make it fully operational, it’s legal.  Say I want to display it like a museum piece hearkening back to one of  Hawaii asinine gun laws.


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An 80% is treated no differently from a completed stripped receiver.  It needs a serial number.  If the gun is metal, then engraving is fine.  if it is polymer, you need to attach a metal plate with the serial number -- similar to a Glock pistol. They use a small metal plate embedded in the frame with the number.

Glock Serial Plate:


Here's a pic from a polymer 80% receiver retailer showing the serialization plate embedded in the blank.  You also need to have the caliber and maker's name engraved on the frame to satisfy registration rules.

You can have the manufacturer do the engraving, which is required when shipping to Hawaii.



This also applies to 3D printed frames:
https://www.capitol.hawaii.gov/hrscurrent/Vol03_Ch0121-0200D/HRS0134/HRS_0134-0003.htm

I couldn’t find it.
Where’s the metal plate requirement ?