Depends on the stipulation of the divorce decree. Sometimes they are vague, just saying one parent gets the kid half the time while some divorce decrees spell it out to the specific date and time. I knew a military guy who had to exchange his kid at the police station on specific dates and times so it could all be documented and monitored.

As for the rest, like I said, live to fight another day. He should have called the cops and waited for them. Then, if he was in the right, he could have the smug satisfaction when the cops make the ex-wife hand the child over.

Cops don't enforce visitation orders.  That's what the courts and social services do.  If a child needs to be removed from one parent's custody, the Cop accompanies the case worker.  The worker gives the orders.  If the parent needs to be restrained to force compliance with the court order, the worker instructs the Cop to do it. 

How do I know this?  My ex worked for a state welfare agency that dealt with these issues.  She was fired because she didn't follow these rules -- she showed up at a home without a Cop to provide protection because the girl that called her was being kicked out of her house along with her kid by the boyfriend/baby daddy.  She felt it was an urgent situation, and she made a decision that could have ended much worse.

Anyway, a parent breaking a court order for visitation is not breaking a law that involves law enforcement.  The other parent needs to go through the system to get an order of protection, modified custody/visitation, or whatever else is needed to fix the problem.  Cops forcing parents to surrender children isn't the process.

Cops don't enforce visitation orders.  That's what the courts and social services do.  If a child needs to be removed from one parent's custody, the Cop accompanies the case worker.  The worker gives the orders.  If the parent needs to be restrained to force compliance with the court order, the worker instructs the Cop to do it. 

How do I know this?  My ex worked for a state welfare agency that dealt with these issues.  She was fired because she didn't follow these rules -- she showed up at a home without a Cop to provide protection because the girl that called her was being kicked out of her house along with her kid by the boyfriend/baby daddy.  She felt it was an urgent situation, and she made a decision that could have ended much worse.

Anyway, a parent breaking a court order for visitation is not breaking a law that involves law enforcement.  The other parent needs to go through the system to get an order of protection, modified custody/visitation, or whatever else is needed to fix the problem.  Cops forcing parents to surrender children isn't the process.

Cops can and do enforce custody but the document needs to be very clear. If it is vaguely worded like every other weekend then that is hard to enforce (no way to know whos weekend is whos) and the cops tell them to go back to court.

Cops can and do enforce custody but the document needs to be very clear. If it is vaguely worded like every other weekend then that is hard to enforce (no way to know whos weekend is whos) and the cops tell them to go back to court.

Is it your belief that Cops will use force to get the parent they believe is in the wrong to comply with the visitation order on the spot?  How much force is justified?  What if the parent has the child hidden somewhere other than the immediate location?  Will the Cops bring in a search team?

My understanding is that Cops are not supposed to escalate the situation.  They can try to get both sides and reason with the parents, but if one is adamant that they will not surrender the child, I don't think the Cop will have many option other than to write a report and have the other parent ask for a contempt charge.

Seen a child being transfered from dad to mom outside HPD HQ in downtown. Very sad.

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What happens when a guy with a gun argues with a guy with a gun?
Crazy.
Maybe guys with guns shouldn’t argue.
Wonder what one of them said to make the other draw? Must have been so bad that he was ready to draw to both get shots off.
Or both were threatening to shoot each other.

“ Emmit King, a former track star at the University of Alabama and a member of two Olympic teams, was one of two men shot and killed during an argument in Bessemer, Alabama, on Sunday, police said.

According to NBC News, witnesses said that King, 62, and Willie Wells, 60, were having an argument outside a house when both men pulled guns and fired at each other. Wells died at the scene, while King was taken to a hospital and died there. The Jefferson County Coroner’s Office identified both men on Monday. ”

What happens when a guy with a gun argues with a guy with a gun?
Crazy.
Maybe guys with guns shouldn’t argue.

“ Emmit King, a former track star at the University of Alabama and a member of two Olympic teams, was one of two men shot and killed during an argument in Bessemer, Alabama, on Sunday, police said.

According to NBC News, witnesses said that King, 62, and Willie Wells, 60, were having an argument outside a house when both men pulled guns and fired at each other. Wells died at the scene, while King was taken to a hospital and died there. The Jefferson County Coroner’s Office identified both men on Monday. ”

He with the bigger gun wins of course. Unless it's a PCC, then automatic loss.

I didn’t want to ask earlier but what gun does that guy have in the original post ?
Looks like a 9mm PCC but I don’t recognize the type.

He with the bigger gun wins of course. Unless it's a PCC, then automatic loss.

What?   Such heresy!   I mean…. HK MP5?  Kriss Vector?  Mac-10?   Uzi?  Or are some of these not PCCs but SMGs?

What?   Such heresy!   I mean…. HK MP5?  Kriss Vector?  Mac-10?   Uzi?  Or are some of these not PCCs but SMGs?

If you got a MP5 (SP5) and slap the handle, then it's all G. It would be an automatic win.

I didn’t want to ask earlier but what gun does that guy have in the original post ?
Looks like a 9mm PCC but I don’t recognize the type.

Looks like the Ruger PCC in 9mm. 

it's Texas, I presume very strong Castle Doctrine.

if the guy says get off my property, you refuse, and then start getting confrontational, physical, I think he put his hand on the dude's gun, I think it's game over.  I think that's the end, Darwin nominee, trying to look manly in front of his woman.  Teal?

I think the warning shot is drama.

unless you believe the child is there in the house and in imminent physical danger, but I don't think that applies.

I think the Castle Doctrine takes precedence over a child visitation dispute, no ifs, ands, or buts.

I'm not a lawyer.

it's Texas, I presume very strong Castle Doctrine.

if the guy says get off my property, you refuse, and then start getting confrontational, physical, I think he put his hand on the dude's gun, I think it's game over.  I think that's the end, Darwin nominee, trying to look manly in front of his woman.  Teal?

I think the warning shot is drama.

unless you believe the child is there in the house and in imminent physical danger, but I don't think that applies.

I think the Castle Doctrine takes precedence over a child visitation dispute, no ifs, ands, or buts.

I'm not a lawyer.

In many states, firing a warning shot lessens your claim of self defense.  If you were truly in fear for your life, why would you fire a warning shot instead of aiming at the threat?  You couldn't have been so afraid if you thought a warning shot was enough when you fired.

The warning shot can also be seen as a provocation.  The father wasn't going for the gun until after the shot.  That could be seen as him grabbing for the gun in self defense.

Who was the aggressor?  The father who didn't want to leave without his son, or the one who threatened to shoot him if he didn't leave and then fired a warning shot to emphasize what he intended to do?  Obviously, the guy with the gun escalated the situation by threatening to use lethal force.  The father made the decision to remain and not call/wait for law enforcement. 

Bad judgement on all sides, including the mother.

What if it was a ND and not a warning shot?

What if it was a ND and not a warning shot?

Context?   

Now face-to-face, Carruth fires one shot into the floor at the pair’s feet, which does not
appear to deter Chad Read, who continues to push against Carruth.

it's Texas, I presume very strong Castle Doctrine.

if the guy says get off my property, you refuse, and then start getting confrontational, physical, I think he put his hand on the dude's gun, I think it's game over.  I think that's the end, Darwin nominee, trying to look manly in front of his woman.  Teal?

I think the warning shot is drama.

unless you believe the child is there in the house and in imminent physical danger, but I don't think that applies.

I think the Castle Doctrine takes precedence over a child visitation dispute, no ifs, ands, or buts.

I'm not a lawyer.

This is a tough one for me. I’m all for a strong no nonsense castle doctrine but I think I found this one instance that shakes my faith in that type of law. As someone who’s gone through this before, child disputes are absolute hell. They make fathers sit up at night thinking about very very dark things. I have no doubt this dad has been stewing about this shit for months and family courts take for fucking ever to act if they even act at all. Meanwhile it’s been six months since you last saw your son because mom wants to play games.

 There was no reason other than for ego to go and grab his gun. If he could take the time to grab his gun he had time to pick up the phone and call the police.

The gun guy makes law-abiding gun owners look bad.

Guarantee the anti-gun nuts will use him as an example.

WRONG, all you guys argue with each other all the time constantly!!!! 

WRONG, all you guys argue with each other all the time constantly!!!! 

Do not!  Do not!!   

Not for that last couple of weeks anyway.  It's been quite pleasant lately.

Unfortunately, we only have another 2 weeks or so of this until the food fight starts again.   

WRONG, all you guys argue with each other all the time constantly!!!! 

i heard there was almost a fight on the rifle side on sunday
2 guys were described as "screaming at each other"...