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ENTRY LEVEL HUNTING RIFLE (Read 45630 times)

GZire

Re: ENTRY LEVEL HUNTING RIFLE
« Reply #20 on: October 03, 2012, 08:18:02 AM »
Quote from: redryderbb on October 02, 2012, 09:56:01 AM
Besides the 30-06, I am also considering the 308 Win.  Got to admit it though the 30-06 ammo looks beastly compared to the 308 for a newbie like me.  Looks of an ammo might not be the factor for some of you experienced folks, it's how well you can hit the target/game, right?  ;D

.308 Win is basically a scaled down 30-06 cartridge.  7.62 NATO is very close to the .308 Win although loaded to lower pressures with some case sizing differences.  7.62 NATO is the larger of the standard cartridges that our armed forces uses.

It is my understanding that the 30-06 and .308 performance will not see large differences until you start getting out at extreme distances, say out past 600-800 yards where the 30-06 allows room for a bit more powder and heavier bullets.  Most hunting will be well under those distances.  .308 will allow for a huge selection of loads to be used and IMHO is a really good choice as an all around cartridge (hunting & self defense).
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redryderbb

Re: ENTRY LEVEL HUNTING RIFLE
« Reply #21 on: October 04, 2012, 07:09:04 PM »
Quote from: Jl808 on October 02, 2012, 06:47:51 PM
I've never shot one but a Tikka T3 looks good. Lightweight.

Damn! :o
After checking out some vids of the Tikka T3 (Lite), Remington 700, and Thompson/Center Venture, I now can't decide even more about a rifle with the list that I started out with. It's hard for me to choose now for my first hunting rifle.  :(
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Cougar8045

Re: ENTRY LEVEL HUNTING RIFLE
« Reply #22 on: October 04, 2012, 09:14:45 PM »
Quote from: redryderbb on October 04, 2012, 07:09:04 PM
Damn! :o
After checking out some vids of the Tikka T3 (Lite), Remington 700, and Thompson/Center Venture, I now can't decide even more about a rifle with the list that I started out with. It's hard for me to choose now for my first hunting rifle.  :(
I had that same problem when I was trying to settle on an AR.  Too many brands, with too many zealots for each!  Of course, with ARs, you also get to wrangle with the question of buying a complete rifle, or building one from scratch. 

If you think you may want to upgrade later, go with the Remmy 700.  If you think you'll probably not be interested in new barrels, fancy stocks, etc, then go with whatever looks coolest and fits your budget.  You don't have any shitty guns on your list, so any of them will hunt game well.
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redryderbb

Re: ENTRY LEVEL HUNTING RIFLE
« Reply #23 on: October 05, 2012, 12:16:30 AM »
Quote from: Cougar8045 on October 04, 2012, 09:14:45 PM
I had that same problem when I was trying to settle on an AR.  Too many brands, with too many zealots for each!  Of course, with ARs, you also get to wrangle with the question of buying a complete rifle, or building one from scratch. 

If you think you may want to upgrade later, go with the Remmy 700.  If you think you'll probably not be interested in new barrels, fancy stocks, etc, then go with whatever looks coolest and fits your budget.  You don't have any shitty guns on your list, so any of them will hunt game well.

Yes, too many brands and types out there.  I can only imagine the frustration a newbie like me would be in deciding on an AR  :'(

Well, I did a little more research on my "extended" list of rifles.  Noticed that there are a few videos of people modifying their Remington 700 by getting it "Bedded".  Does anyone know if the Remington 700 really necessary to get it bedded for accuracy purposes?  One thing I like about the Ruger American Rifle is that it features the V-shaped stainless steel mounting blocks called Power Bedding System.  Come to think about it, does anyone know if the other rifles that is on my list have a type of mounting blocks as well?  I've searched and couldn't find an answer that showed videos or pictures. 
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GZire

Re: ENTRY LEVEL HUNTING RIFLE
« Reply #24 on: October 05, 2012, 06:30:56 AM »
^^^Most rifles nowadays are around 1 moa or better out of the box.  When you start talking tack drivers, then the prices goes up significantly.

Soooo..............$1,500-ish for a fully set up rifle w/scope and if you want to start bedding it and do other stuff figure the sky is the limit to cut another 1/2 moa off of that.  IMHO for a basic hunting rifle it is not worth it.
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bass monkey

Re: ENTRY LEVEL HUNTING RIFLE
« Reply #25 on: October 05, 2012, 07:24:53 AM »
What is bedding? Is that a barrel modification? Makes it more accurate?
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Inspector

Re: ENTRY LEVEL HUNTING RIFLE
« Reply #26 on: October 05, 2012, 09:38:02 AM »
Quote from: GZire on October 05, 2012, 06:30:56 AM
^^^Most rifles nowadays are around 1 moa or better out of the box.  When you start talking tack drivers, then the prices goes up significantly.

Soooo..............$1,500-ish for a fully set up rifle w/scope and if you want to start bedding it and do other stuff figure the sky is the limit to cut another 1/2 moa off of that.  IMHO for a basic hunting rifle it is not worth it.
+1 for this.

1 MOA is considered a tack driver for a hunting rifle. Bedding will not be necessary unless your rifle turns out to be 3-5 MOA or something close to that. Most rifles with synthetic stocks these days do a good job of attaching to the action consistently to the point that bedding is not needed.
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Heavies

Re: ENTRY LEVEL HUNTING RIFLE
« Reply #27 on: October 05, 2012, 12:11:00 PM »
Quote from: bass monkey on October 05, 2012, 07:24:53 AM
What is bedding? Is that a barrel modification? Makes it more accurate?

Bedding a rifle is using epoxy or a metal to mate the rifles action to the stock so that it moves consistently every time the rifle is fired.  The barrel is usually free floated, where the full length of the barrel has no contact with anything.  This allows consistent vibration/harmonics when the rifle is fired. Sometimes, a contact point is desired on light weight contor barrels to reduce flex and aid accuracy.  Some hunting rifles, such as the 700 I have, has this contact.  It is good for a few shots, however, when the barrel heats and expands during multiple shots in rapid succession the shots will begine to string vertically.  This is not an issue for a hunting rifle, as most cases only one or two shots should be nessisary.
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Heavies

Re: ENTRY LEVEL HUNTING RIFLE
« Reply #28 on: October 05, 2012, 12:26:08 PM »
The epoxy seen here makes an exact imprint that the action sits in so that the action is held very solidly with movement kept consistently the same for every shot.  The barrel channel of the stock has enough room to allow no contact with the barrel.




With handloads tuned to harmonics or the rifle and barrel tack driving accuacy is possible. 


This rifle is a Savage action with a Mcgowen barrel.
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Tom_G

Re: ENTRY LEVEL HUNTING RIFLE
« Reply #29 on: October 05, 2012, 01:09:59 PM »
Quote from: redryderbb on October 05, 2012, 12:16:30 AM
Noticed that there are a few videos of people modifying their Remington 700 by getting it "Bedded".  Does anyone know if the Remington 700 really necessary to get it bedded for accuracy purposes? 

Nope.  Bedding, generally speaking, is a way to improve accuracy.  But honestly, unless you are shooting prairie dogs at 1000 yards, bedding a hunting rifle is a waste of $$$.  You aren't interested in punching tiny groups at long distances, you're interested in placing one meaningful hole at close-to-moderate distances. 

You may want to seriously consider a synthetic stock, though.  As much of a fan as I am of wood stocks, the humidity and rain encountered when hunting can easily warp a wooden stock.  You might start the hunt with a perfectly sighted rifle, and by the time you get a bead on your pig, have a rifle that shoots 6" to the left. 

Unless you do get an old milsup battle rifle.  The stocks on those are so impregnated with oil, I bet they would survive a year under water!
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The difference between theory and reality is that, in theory, there is no difference between theory and reality.

bass monkey

Re: ENTRY LEVEL HUNTING RIFLE
« Reply #30 on: October 05, 2012, 02:47:29 PM »
Thanks for the reply heavies and some sick pictures. And thanks for the emphasise tom. Was gonna say if I could do this on my .22 for shits and giggles but seems like it would be a waste of time and I'm better off doing a free float of the barrel.
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Heavies

Re: ENTRY LEVEL HUNTING RIFLE
« Reply #31 on: October 05, 2012, 07:03:10 PM »
Quote from: GZire on October 03, 2012, 08:18:02 AM
.308 Win is basically a scaled down 30-06 cartridge.  7.62 NATO is very close to the .308 Win although loaded to lower pressures with some case sizing differences.  7.62 NATO is the larger of the standard cartridges that our armed forces uses.

It is my understanding that the 30-06 and .308 performance will not see large differences until you start getting out at extreme distances, say out past 600-800 yards where the 30-06 allows room for a bit more powder and heavier bullets.  Most hunting will be well under those distances.  .308 will allow for a huge selection of loads to be used and IMHO is a really good choice as an all around cartridge (hunting & self defense).

I think I would have to disagree that the ought six performance is neck and nack to .308 win, when comparing both in a modern bolt action rifle, modern powders, and modern projectiles.  The large case and slower burning powders enable the 30-06 to be a much more powerful and versitile cartridge hunting wise than the .308.  It cwn be loaded to take mice to moose. :)
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Heavies

Re: ENTRY LEVEL HUNTING RIFLE
« Reply #32 on: October 05, 2012, 07:05:09 PM »
However, 30-06 loaded for old military weapons, such as garand, performance is nearly the same. Maybe a slight FPS advantage to '06
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Tom_G

Re: ENTRY LEVEL HUNTING RIFLE
« Reply #33 on: October 05, 2012, 07:55:31 PM »
Quote from: Heavies on October 05, 2012, 07:05:09 PM
However, 30-06 loaded for old military weapons, such as garand, performance is nearly the same. Maybe a slight FPS advantage to '06

M2 ball!!  M2 ball!!
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The difference between theory and reality is that, in theory, there is no difference between theory and reality.

Inspector

Re: ENTRY LEVEL HUNTING RIFLE
« Reply #34 on: October 05, 2012, 08:12:47 PM »
I have a .22 that changes point of impact and changes accuracy depending on how tight I tighten the screws that holds the stock to the action. I bought a Fat Wrench and I played with different torque settings so I know exactly how tight to make the screws so I don't have to bed the action. By bedding the action it should make no difference in the torque of the screws. Just something else to consider.
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SCIENCE THAT CAN’T BE QUESTIONED IS PROPAGANDA!!!

GZire

Re: ENTRY LEVEL HUNTING RIFLE
« Reply #35 on: October 06, 2012, 08:15:28 AM »
Quote from: Heavies on October 05, 2012, 07:03:10 PM
I think I would have to disagree that the ought six performance is neck and nack to .308 win, when comparing both in a modern bolt action rifle, modern powders, and modern projectiles.  The large case and slower burning powders enable the 30-06 to be a much more powerful and versitile cartridge hunting wise than the .308.  It cwn be loaded to take mice to moose. :)

I would argue that the higher weight 30-06 bullets (say approaching 200 grains) you will not require unless you get to more extreme distances.  Within the more realistic distances I do not believe there is much difference between the 30-06 and 308 performance...........remember we are still talking 150 to 175 grain bullets...........not to say that you couldn't load the 30-06 with the heavier bullets.
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redryderbb

Re: ENTRY LEVEL HUNTING RIFLE
« Reply #36 on: October 23, 2012, 08:08:20 PM »
Thank you all for your responses.
From my original list of 4 rifles that I posted and later received responses from others, I ended up adding 3 more rifles to my list.  With further research and watching numerous videos in deciding which of the 7 rifles to purchase as my first hunting rifle.
Well, I finally made up my mind and bought a Tikka T3 Lite chambered in 30-06.  It had cost a little over my budget as I originally set at earlier, but spending a little more for a fine hunting rifle that is fairly cheap, light-weight, durable, and accurate sits fine with me.  :shaka:
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bparages

Re: ENTRY LEVEL HUNTING RIFLE
« Reply #37 on: November 08, 2012, 08:39:46 AM »
Quote from: bass monkey on October 02, 2012, 10:57:46 AM
Your C&R is a FFL license to collect curio and relic firearms. So usually firearms that are 50 years old or older qualify and you can have them mailed to your house.

If not check out the x ring has, the 91/30 is a great gun. There's also a sniper version and it won't break the bank, the common version at least.
[/quote

] bass is right, mosins are cheap and from what I read and heard are accurate.. It's been used by many countries during conflict for over a hundred years.  Ammo is cheap and a Monte Carlo synthetic stock is available, though the bolt angle kit for traditional Scopes seem cheesy, cutting off bolt handle and drilling and tapping for a a lower drop handle to clear scope, if u have the means, have it fitted then tig welded.. Though scout Scopes have had considerable success.. 149.00 at Ogc, Ati stock and bolt kit about 100.00... Wolf ammo around 13.00 for 20rds or Russian surplus 440CT for about 130.00. Can't go wrong in the pocket, with a caliber similar to 308, 3006. That's where I think im heading.....
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Jl808

ENTRY LEVEL HUNTING RIFLE
« Reply #38 on: November 08, 2012, 02:42:09 PM »
Nice one redryderbb!  Just curious, where did you end up buying one?  It's on my list as well.
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redryderbb

Re: ENTRY LEVEL HUNTING RIFLE
« Reply #39 on: November 27, 2012, 02:11:26 AM »
Gunbroker
And by the way, big mahalos JI808 for posting and suggesting to me of the Tikka T3 Lite  :thumbsup:
 
« Last Edit: November 27, 2012, 02:16:27 AM by redryderbb »
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