Handgun External Safety (Read 2441 times)

changemyoil66

Handgun External Safety
« on: May 03, 2022, 09:50:20 AM »
So with my new purchase that has a thumb safety (1911), I notice that I learned with newer technology that has no external thumb safety (VP9).  The VP9 just has a bladed trigger.  And our other gun CZ P10C and M&P 9C has the same, bladed trigger.  Neither have a safety lever type of device.

So with this being said, how do you old timers feel about the newer guns having no thumb or like external safety?  For me, as an example, the P320's are not my cup of tea. Although striker fire, they have no bladed trigger or thumb like safety (M17/18 excluded).  Or even a heavier 1st pull like a double action with the hammer down or revolvers. And IMO that is a pretty big safety issue in general.  Which it all comes down to not putting your finger on the trigger is the bare minimum and no other safety redundancy in case this fails (included is stuff getting caught on the trigger). 

As a newer owner who learned on striker fire, I have no prior XP to compare it to. 

Are external safeties (lever or bladed trigger) going the way of the dodo. Like how almost all AR's have an optic on them and iron sights only are the way of the past.  Thoughts?

zippz

Re: Handgun External Safety
« Reply #1 on: May 03, 2022, 12:35:00 PM »
Manual safeties have gone away on modern handgun designs.  There's still cases for having one like military handguns that go through a lot of abuse.  Or competition pistols with light triggers and no internal safeties.  Or newer versions of old designs like the 1911.  I consider bladed triggers more like an internal safety that is automatic.  Other than that, I don't see a need for manual safeties.

Long guns will always have them as they are open carried and anything getting caught in the trigger will set them off.

aieahound

Re: Handgun External Safety
« Reply #2 on: May 03, 2022, 01:52:59 PM »
1911 is little different.
 No double action.
So to carry at the ready it’s cocked and locked.
And I guess no wants to mess with the design to change it.
Springfield XD Tactical comes close with bladed trigger and grip safety. Striker fired. 5”barrel.

If your 1911 trigger is like mine. If I were to walk around with it cocked and one in, I’d use the safety.
I don’t, so I don’t. 
But it would almost be like walking around with a cocked revolver. (Not quite but not far.)

My Glock no problem because of initial take up on the trigger. (Short reset though.)
« Last Edit: May 03, 2022, 01:58:30 PM by aieahound »

groveler

Re: Handgun External Safety
« Reply #3 on: May 04, 2022, 06:33:16 AM »
So with my new purchase that has a thumb safety (1911), I notice that I learned with newer technology that has no external thumb safety (VP9).  The VP9 just has a bladed trigger.  And our other gun CZ P10C and M&P 9C has the same, bladed trigger.  Neither have a safety lever type of device.

So with this being said, how do you old timers feel about the newer guns having no thumb or like external safety?  For me, as an example, the P320's are not my cup of tea. Although striker fire, they have no bladed trigger or thumb like safety (M17/18 excluded).  Or even a heavier 1st pull like a double action with the hammer down or revolvers. And IMO that is a pretty big safety issue in general.  Which it all comes down to not putting your finger on the trigger is the bare minimum and no other safety redundancy in case this fails (included is stuff getting caught on the trigger). 

As a newer owner who learned on striker fire, I have no prior XP to compare it to. 

Are external safeties (lever or bladed trigger) going the way of the dodo. Like how almost all AR's have an optic on them and iron sights only are the way of the past.  Thoughts?
Iron sights always work.
Manual safety requires you to
think before you act.

If Cops didn't have Glocks not so many people would be shot
in error eg. mistaken as a TASER.

Slower, smaller aim, is better than "spray and pray".
 :geekdanc:

robtmc

Re: Handgun External Safety
« Reply #4 on: May 04, 2022, 06:38:49 AM »
Iron sights always work.
Manual safety requires you to
think before you act.

If Cops didn't have Glocks not so many people would be shot
in error eg. mistaken as a TASER.

Slower, smaller aim, is better than "spray and pray".
 :geekdanc:
You understand.   The fundamentals are being discarded for the newest fad or fashion.
I own both a trigger safety and manual safety sidearm.   Practice with both.  Have to admit thumbing off the 1911 safety is 2nd nature.

I do not wish to play Johnny Ringo and practice fast draw, so it makes for a more deliberate operation. 
Fast is fine, accuracy is final.

Give cops high capacity sidearms and you see the result in dozens of rounds being fired and no hits, other than on the surroundings.

drck1000

Re: Handgun External Safety
« Reply #5 on: May 04, 2022, 09:19:37 AM »
So with my new purchase that has a thumb safety (1911), I notice that I learned with newer technology that has no external thumb safety (VP9).  The VP9 just has a bladed trigger.  And our other gun CZ P10C and M&P 9C has the same, bladed trigger.  Neither have a safety lever type of device.

So with this being said, how do you old timers feel about the newer guns having no thumb or like external safety?  For me, as an example, the P320's are not my cup of tea. Although striker fire, they have no bladed trigger or thumb like safety (M17/18 excluded).  Or even a heavier 1st pull like a double action with the hammer down or revolvers. And IMO that is a pretty big safety issue in general.  Which it all comes down to not putting your finger on the trigger is the bare minimum and no other safety redundancy in case this fails (included is stuff getting caught on the trigger). 

As a newer owner who learned on striker fire, I have no prior XP to compare it to. 

Are external safeties (lever or bladed trigger) going the way of the dodo. Like how almost all AR's have an optic on them and iron sights only are the way of the past.  Thoughts?
Personally, I think as long as guns, particularly handguns, with external/thumb safeties (ETA) continue to be produced and in common usage, I think good to be familiar with them.  Don't see handguns with them going away any time soon. 

I don't think it's an issue of technology, like red dot or other optics on firearms.  I guess one could consider an external safety a "disabler", but I don't think so.  Just different approaches. 
« Last Edit: May 04, 2022, 09:44:08 AM by drck1000 »

6716J

Re: Handgun External Safety
« Reply #6 on: May 04, 2022, 09:40:08 AM »
1911s are just another variation/platform to learn. Always good to know that skillset. 1911s are not going anywhere (MARSOC is using them) and thumb safeties will be here for a long time due to the military.

Now not knowing what accessories you've got already, I would recommend a Safariland ALS holster for it for the OC. Learning the manipulation of the ALS and then the manual safety can take some time to be automatic. As well as PUTTING IT BACK ON. You'll find you're forgetting about the safety all the time until you get used to it. Ask me how I know  ;)

They are a lot of fun to shoot. Just don't limp wrist it.
I'd rather have a bottle in front of me, than a frontal lobotomy.

stangzilla

Re: Handgun External Safety
« Reply #7 on: May 04, 2022, 09:40:50 AM »
1911 is not going away.  neither is the revolver.  so anywhere from external safety to no safety will be here forever. or at least for a very long time
I don't really think much of the blade safety. maybe effective for pocket carry, but you should have a pocket holster for pocket carry for a few reasons.
so a no safety might be almost the same as a blade safety
for carry I would prefer a external safety for a semiauto.  but since I'm a revolver guy, that means no safety would be ok too.  although the heavy DA trigger is a sort of safety, but not really.  I would pocket carry a snubnose with a pocket holster. or OWB open carry in a leather holster with thumb break over the hammer
I would also be ok with carrying a Glock or similar.  so doesn't really matter to me as long as the method of carry is appropriate
although I dont really have experience with CCW

RSN172

Re: Handgun External Safety
« Reply #8 on: May 04, 2022, 02:03:52 PM »

Give cops high capacity sidearms and you see the result in dozens of rounds being fired and no hits, other than on the surroundings.
Cops should be issued single action revolvers.  That way  they have to make a deliberate action to shoot and with only six shots, be more careful  as to when and why they shoot.
Happily living in Puna

aieahound

Re: Handgun External Safety
« Reply #9 on: May 04, 2022, 03:16:12 PM »
Can’t believe Criminal Kealoha had all those surplus guns destroyed.

https://www.foxnews.com/politics/anti-gun-stupidity-honolulu-destroys-575g-worth-of-police-firearms

They had a weird push up thumb safety though if I recall correctly.
1911 safety is almost intuitive once you’re used to. God Bless John Browning.
« Last Edit: May 04, 2022, 03:26:15 PM by aieahound »

6716J

Re: Handgun External Safety
« Reply #10 on: May 04, 2022, 04:07:55 PM »
Can’t believe Criminal Kealoha had all those surplus guns destroyed.

https://www.foxnews.com/politics/anti-gun-stupidity-honolulu-destroys-575g-worth-of-police-firearms

They had a weird push up thumb safety though if I recall correctly.
1911 safety is almost intuitive once you’re used to. God Bless John Browning.

The 5900 series was a great firearm. I had one (5906) back in the 80's. In California no less. The safety was pretty intuitive when you brought it up and put your thumb up, it disengaged the safety effectively and quickly. Also being the DA/SA, no worries about a light trigger on the first shot. Just like a revolver.

*I'd like to have a 3913TSW if I could get my hands on one cheaply. I missed out on a pawn shop one in Vegas for $300 in 2012. Now any in good shape are $700ish
I'd rather have a bottle in front of me, than a frontal lobotomy.

QUIETShooter

Re: Handgun External Safety
« Reply #11 on: May 05, 2022, 05:48:00 AM »
Can’t believe Criminal Kealoha had all those surplus guns destroyed.

https://www.foxnews.com/politics/anti-gun-stupidity-honolulu-destroys-575g-worth-of-police-firearms


The conspiracy theorist in me keeps telling me sarcastically: "Yep.  All of them.  Every. Single. One." ;D :wave:
Sometimes you gotta know when to save your bullets.