SCOTUS STRIKES DOWN NEW YORK CARRY LAW!!! SO NOW WHAT FOR HAWAII? (Read 33571 times)

changemyoil66

Re: SCOTUS STRIKES DOWN NEW YORK CARRY LAW!!! SO NOW WHAT FOR HAWAII?
« Reply #160 on: August 25, 2022, 07:51:41 PM »
Maui has this in their requirements

Firearms proficiency tests shall be taken with the firearm intended to be carried, and must be taken within 90 days of submitting your application. The test must be administered by a state-certified or National Rifle Association firearms instructor of the applicant’s choosing (attach instructor certification). Signed test results must include shooting scores. A pass/fail test result without scores is not sufficient.


What is the test?  Why doesn’t Honolulu or other counties have this?  Where in the freaking current law does this testing requirement exist?
Maui and BI may have violated the law when creating this.

Sent from my SM-G991U using Tapatalk

Heavies

Re: SCOTUS STRIKES DOWN NEW YORK CARRY LAW!!! SO NOW WHAT FOR HAWAII?
« Reply #161 on: August 25, 2022, 08:22:19 PM »
Any NRA instructors out there want to administer the “test” to me?  5 shots at 3 yards into a 4”x8” target.   Lemme know the cost

nickelzismoney

Re: SCOTUS STRIKES DOWN NEW YORK CARRY LAW!!! SO NOW WHAT FOR HAWAII?
« Reply #162 on: August 25, 2022, 09:13:29 PM »
Maui and BI may have violated the law when creating this.

Sent from my SM-G991U using Tapatalk

Most other states require a live fire test for the permit
“No matter how much it hurts, how dark it gets, or how hard you fall… you are never out of the fight.” - Marcus Luttrel

"The world will not be destroyed by those who do evil, but by those who watch them without doing anything." - Albert Einstein

changemyoil66

Re: SCOTUS STRIKES DOWN NEW YORK CARRY LAW!!! SO NOW WHAT FOR HAWAII?
« Reply #163 on: August 25, 2022, 10:00:10 PM »
Most other states require a live fire test for the permit
As in how they made changes, not abt the actual test

Sent from my SM-G991U using Tapatalk

Heavies

Re: SCOTUS STRIKES DOWN NEW YORK CARRY LAW!!! SO NOW WHAT FOR HAWAII?
« Reply #164 on: August 25, 2022, 11:39:43 PM »
Most other states require a live fire test for the permit

Not in Hawaii’s law. They’re making their own laws.

Flapp_Jackson

Re: SCOTUS STRIKES DOWN NEW YORK CARRY LAW!!! SO NOW WHAT FOR HAWAII?
« Reply #165 on: August 26, 2022, 11:44:11 AM »
Most other states require a live fire test for the permit

Most?

50% of the states (that's 25 of 50) have Constitutional / Permit-less concealed carry.

That means you can carry because you can legally own a firearm.  No test required.

Try again.

p.s. I've had non-resident CCW permits from Utah, Nevada, Florida and Maine.  The only one  of those that required a live fire test was Nevada.

Most do require some sort of safety training course/affidavit, but there's no qualification test -- i.e. shooting for points.  An approved NRA firearm safety or hunter's ed course is sufficient.  Not the same as a CCW class with live fire qualification testing.
The reasonable man adapts himself to the world;
the unreasonable one persists in trying to adapt the world to himself.
Therefore, all progress depends on the unreasonable man.
-- George Bernard Shaw

Rocky

Re: SCOTUS STRIKES DOWN NEW YORK CARRY LAW!!! SO NOW WHAT FOR HAWAII?
« Reply #166 on: August 26, 2022, 12:08:45 PM »
Any NRA instructors out there want to administer the “test” to me?  5 shots at 3 yards into a 4”x8” target.   Lemme know the cost
You should have accomplished the following if you took the NRA basic Pistol Course.

NRA Basic Pistol Achievement Target

Three five shot groups within a 4" diameter circle with 20 rounds

Level 1 (Minimum to pass)
5 shots/10 feet Standing
Bullets that pierce the outside edge of the circle (4") count as hits

Level 2
5 shots/15 feet Standing
Bullets that pierce the outside edge of the circle (4") count as hits

Level 3
5 shots/20 feet Standing
Bullets that pierce the outside edge of the circle (4") count as hits

NRA Instructor Training Qualification Target
20 shots/15 yards (45ft) 16 out of 20 shots in 6" group

Student must demonstrate weapons familiarity as well as follow all safety rules during qualification.
“I ask you to judge me by the enemies I have made.”
                                                           Franklin D. Roosevelt

Heavies

Re: SCOTUS STRIKES DOWN NEW YORK CARRY LAW!!! SO NOW WHAT FOR HAWAII?
« Reply #167 on: August 26, 2022, 04:59:58 PM »
You should have accomplished the following if you took the NRA basic Pistol Course.

NRA Basic Pistol Achievement Target

Three five shot groups within a 4" diameter circle with 20 rounds

Level 1 (Minimum to pass)
5 shots/10 feet Standing
Bullets that pierce the outside edge of the circle (4") count as hits

Level 2
5 shots/15 feet Standing
Bullets that pierce the outside edge of the circle (4") count as hits

Level 3
5 shots/20 feet Standing
Bullets that pierce the outside edge of the circle (4") count as hits

NRA Instructor Training Qualification Target
20 shots/15 yards (45ft) 16 out of 20 shots in 6" group

Student must demonstrate weapons familiarity as well as follow all safety rules during qualification.


I was just making up an arbitrary shooting course, since they can make up arbitrary, and extra, “rules” to exercise a right.

Heavies

zippz

Re: SCOTUS STRIKES DOWN NEW YORK CARRY LAW!!! SO NOW WHAT FOR HAWAII?
« Reply #169 on: August 26, 2022, 06:04:02 PM »
NRA basic pistol tests 1 to 3, you have to repeat those for a total of 4 circles with no misses, doesn't have to be consecutive.  So 20 shots minimum to pass each level if don't miss any.

Since the instructor selects the test to administer, they take on a little liability.  Instructor should be able to explain to a court why they chose that test, in the unlikely event they may be deposed in a self-defense shooting incident.

changemyoil66

Re: SCOTUS STRIKES DOWN NEW YORK CARRY LAW!!! SO NOW WHAT FOR HAWAII?
« Reply #170 on: August 26, 2022, 07:31:20 PM »
"I use what nevada uses (9th island), 3, 5, and 7 yards."

Should be sufficient. Esp since kokohead doesnt allow sillouette shaped targets.

Sent from my SM-G991U using Tapatalk

nickelzismoney

Re: SCOTUS STRIKES DOWN NEW YORK CARRY LAW!!! SO NOW WHAT FOR HAWAII?
« Reply #171 on: August 26, 2022, 08:33:00 PM »
You can be sure HI and the 6 other states will come up with some requirements that will make it extremely difficult to obtain a carry license.

They will do this knowing it is against what SCOTUS ruled and let it drag through the courts again.  Such politicians and judges should be arrested and charged with contempt of court.

You mean treason
“No matter how much it hurts, how dark it gets, or how hard you fall… you are never out of the fight.” - Marcus Luttrel

"The world will not be destroyed by those who do evil, but by those who watch them without doing anything." - Albert Einstein

hvybarrels

Re: SCOTUS STRIKES DOWN NEW YORK CARRY LAW!!! SO NOW WHAT FOR HAWAII?
« Reply #172 on: August 26, 2022, 11:45:31 PM »
If all the police chiefs in the state choose to defy the Supreme Court by refusing to follow the law, does the rule of law still exist?

I’m becoming clinically undepressed and thinking about beginning it all.

punaperson

Re: SCOTUS STRIKES DOWN NEW YORK CARRY LAW!!! SO NOW WHAT FOR HAWAII?
« Reply #173 on: August 27, 2022, 06:26:15 AM »
From John Lott email today (sound familiar?):

New York has continued to be in the news with its new concealed handgun law going into effect in the next week. I discuss the law in a piece at The Federalist [https://crimepreventionresearchcenter.nationbuilder.com/r?u=VXhonUob8h_X67qZqTDLXV02LYddUCGh9lnudJnvjAqM_qJA3q6O9YEpMqE2k_gFSuY6bD7pGwjc8C1pEU8Elewh934kIgem1NiytfiR8VBdCGtvJw2U1OElKyBB7laFFwOQjCjcfNKI3zAYvYrFLedY-uGYWGONsa5S9c9MkYs&e=2b2e2b99b067c924d4ce27bad29a173a&utm_source=crimepreventionresearchcenter&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=august_27_2022&n=15], and I explain how it replaces a “proper cause” or “good reason” requirement with an equally arbitrary “good moral character” requirement. It also will ban being able to carry a concealed handgun in virtually every place in the state. Even more bizarrely, New York Governor Hochul (D) just announced that the government will scour people’s social media accounts and ask their neighbors whether applicants are “espousing philosophies that indicate they have been radicalized.” On top of all that, the NYPD indicates it could take years before they get around to reviewing permit applications that they previously rejected under the “proper cause” requirement.

Rocky

Re: SCOTUS STRIKES DOWN NEW YORK CARRY LAW!!! SO NOW WHAT FOR HAWAII?
« Reply #174 on: August 28, 2022, 10:39:06 AM »
NRA basic pistol tests 1 to 3, you have to repeat those for a total of 4 circles with no misses, doesn't have to be consecutive.  So 20 shots minimum to pass each level if don't miss any.

Three five shot groups within a 4" diameter circle is 15 rounds minimum (if don't miss any.)

Completing level one as stated above is a "passing" grade.
I hold my class to a 7 yard (21 ft) level 3 success as stated above to pass.


Since the instructor selects the test to administer, they take on a little liability.  Instructor should be able to explain to a court why they chose that test, in the unlikely event they may be deposed in a self-defense shooting incident.
"The FBI statistics show the average distance is around 7-10 yards with around 6 shots being fired." (That's FBI "shots fired" and not necessarily "ROT")
My level 3 test is the minimum average distance as noted by the FBI
“I ask you to judge me by the enemies I have made.”
                                                           Franklin D. Roosevelt

zippz

Re: SCOTUS STRIKES DOWN NEW YORK CARRY LAW!!! SO NOW WHAT FOR HAWAII?
« Reply #175 on: August 28, 2022, 12:26:52 PM »
"The FBI statistics show the average distance is around 7-10 yards with around 6 shots being fired." (That's FBI "shots fired" and not necessarily "ROT")
My level 3 test is the minimum average distance as noted by the FBI


It's all relative and can be seen when comparing sizes of the target under different testing criteria. 

A torso is about 16"x24", or recommendation by most self-defense schools is a 8" circle (vitals area).

The NRA level 1 target is 4" at 10', or extrapolated to 8" at 20' (about 7 yards).  Downsides is it's not under time limits, no draw from a holster, nor realistic target. 

The EIC Combat target HPD is proposing for the CCW test (I'm guessing) avg scoring area to pass is about the size of a sheet of paper.   In NRA target terms, this is a larger area than the NRA level 1 target at 7 yards.  But the time limits and drawing do make it more difficult.

zippz

Re: SCOTUS STRIKES DOWN NEW YORK CARRY LAW!!! SO NOW WHAT FOR HAWAII?
« Reply #176 on: August 28, 2022, 01:44:10 PM »
Targets scaled for 20 feet for reference comparing NRA basic pistol targets to a self-defense target.

RSN172

Re: SCOTUS STRIKES DOWN NEW YORK CARRY LAW!!! SO NOW WHAT FOR HAWAII?
« Reply #177 on: August 28, 2022, 01:57:02 PM »
Due to the prevalence of body armor, I shoot for da boto.
Happily living in Puna

ren

Re: SCOTUS STRIKES DOWN NEW YORK CARRY LAW!!! SO NOW WHAT FOR HAWAII?
« Reply #178 on: August 28, 2022, 04:40:39 PM »
Due to the prevalence of body armor, I shoot for da boto.

so Asians have a better chance of not getting hit...so waycist
Deeds Not Words

Flapp_Jackson

Re: SCOTUS STRIKES DOWN NEW YORK CARRY LAW!!! SO NOW WHAT FOR HAWAII?
« Reply #179 on: August 28, 2022, 05:28:56 PM »
These are the Nevada live fire standards, which I personally find to be adequate and not excessive.

Quote
As of 10/1/2013 you no longer need to qualify with a semi-auto and revolver or specific gun.
You only have to qualify with one gun. By qualifying with any one gun, you are permitted to
carry any gun. The caliber and type (semi-auto or revolver) is irrelevant. When you qualify
with any one gun at the class, you can carry any gun you like!

You must score 70% at the following distances from the target...

3 yards - 6 rounds must hit target

5 yards - 12 rounds must hit target

7 yards - 12 rounds must hit target

Bring one gun (either semi-auto or revolver).
Bring 50 rounds of ammo.

Total rounds to qualify:  (6 + 12 + 12) = 30 rds minimum.  IIRC, anyone who fails to hit the minimum number of times at each distance is allowed to repeat that round/distance.  Hence, the 50 rd suggestion.

https://www.ccw-lasvegas.com/target-qualification.html
The reasonable man adapts himself to the world;
the unreasonable one persists in trying to adapt the world to himself.
Therefore, all progress depends on the unreasonable man.
-- George Bernard Shaw