Premature, but what gun would you carry if HI allows CCW/Open carry (Read 71027 times)

Flapp_Jackson

Re: Premature, but what gun would you carry if HI allows CCW/Open carry
« Reply #40 on: July 08, 2022, 12:31:51 PM »
Tactical reloads are never done in civilian defensive encounters.  Never out of the tens of thousands of incidents.  Some classes don't teach tactical reloads anymore since they're not used for CCW and instead teach speed/emergency reloads instead.

Law enforcement/combat scenarios are a little different in that a lot more rounds are fired for those.

When you live in a place that outlaws standard capacity mags, it's prudent to practice and be prepared to perform tactical reloads.

I'd rather have one in the chamber when I drop the mag for a reload than have an empty chamber and locked back slide.

Of course, what I'm thinking now might go out the window in the adrenaline-drenched events as they unfold.
The reasonable man adapts himself to the world;
the unreasonable one persists in trying to adapt the world to himself.
Therefore, all progress depends on the unreasonable man.
-- George Bernard Shaw

changemyoil66

Re: Premature, but what gun would you carry if HI allows CCW/Open carry
« Reply #41 on: July 08, 2022, 12:53:38 PM »
When you live in a place that outlaws standard capacity mags, it's prudent to practice and be prepared to perform tactical reloads.

I'd rather have one in the chamber when I drop the mag for a reload than have an empty chamber and locked back slide.

Of course, what I'm thinking now might go out the window in the adrenaline-drenched events as they unfold.

I too thought this as well, but ASP has reviewed thousands of vids and have yet to see any kind of reload or maybe like 1 of thousands. And the most rounds fired in a vid was like 8. But the average from all the vids they reviewed is about 5-7. He had a vid about this a year ago or so.  Guess no one used a G43 that only carries 6 rounds.

I'm sure there are people out there who had to do some kind of reload, but ASP reviewing thousands over the years would be a good source of info if you don't want to go looking for yourself.  The hard part is that the vids often don't go into what kind of training the good guy had. Only seldomly is he able to interview the good guy as well. If it were me, tact reload would be on my mind as a thing to do once all threats are neutralized.

Even BJ Baldwin who went 10 for 10 hits didn't reload (he probably had a 15rd mag since this is Vegas).  He got in his car and dug out asap because he didn't know if there were more people. He drove like a mad man to his brothers home on a flat tire.

Going off topic here, but even the quick  "scanning" left to right is BS. People do it way too fast for their brain to even pick up what they're looking at.  John Lovell (Warrior Poet) explained this. He has a phrase he says. Scan left and say "Does anybody else want to play". THen scan right and repeat "does anybody else want to play". Then look behind left and say "Did he bring any friends". Then look behind right and say "Did he bring any friends". Then look back at the bad guy on the ground "Make sure he's still down".  All said in a normal rate of speech.  He states that this is the fastest his brain can scan/comprehend visuals. Anyone doing the half second left to right is just going thru the motions.

Of course this is 1 mans philosophy, but I did a drill with "scanning". You place various papers (8x11)  around you on the wall with big numbers or letters on them in a random order. Have a friend call out a number/letter and you have to find it.  It took me longer than the half second scanning of side to side for my brain to process the info. At 1 point a number was called and it took me like 20 seconds to find it. I thought he was screwing with me and that number wasn't posted.  All this was done with the pistol at the ready position.

John also mentions tunnel vision. He did a class and spoke to a SWAT officer who responded to a shooter in a supermarket.  The officer swears he pulled the trigger multiple times. But the guy didn't drop, nor did he hear any bang or flash or recoil of his AR. So he went behind concealment and did a malfunction check. When he peaked back up, the bad guy was on the ground dead. So this SWAT officer did fire his rifle multiple times, but tunnel vision set in and he didn't feel/hear anything.  No one else shot the guy.

changemyoil66

Re: Premature, but what gun would you carry if HI allows CCW/Open carry
« Reply #42 on: July 08, 2022, 12:56:22 PM »
I don't recommend the sidecar holsters.  I saw recommendations against sidecars and bought a Tier 1 anyways.  It limits where you position your holster and is a very minor tad bit more uncomfortable to wear. 

I recommend just putting the spare magazine in a pocket.

For my VP9 CCW, I don't have a side car, and I keep the mag on my belt with a stretchy thing KM Concepts made me. But if I did the same, I'm afraid my "bulge" will be 1 sided and with the side car, it would be more of an even bulge. No way of knowing until I try, which means more money spent on holsters for trial and error.

I already got too much stuff in my pockets so I want to avoid keeping a mag in there when a tucked in shirt shows the pockets more.

drck1000

Re: Premature, but what gun would you carry if HI allows CCW/Open carry
« Reply #43 on: July 08, 2022, 01:04:00 PM »
There's a ton of misinformation that gets spread on the internet daily, especially about carrying. This video is good about kit, thing like belts and holsters and the whys and hows.

CMO, you can skip the portion about RDS. T1C Axis Slim has been on the watchlist for awhile.
I was scheduled for a RDS handgun class with him, but canceled due to COVID  :(

drck1000

Re: Premature, but what gun would you carry if HI allows CCW/Open carry
« Reply #44 on: July 08, 2022, 01:07:34 PM »

Going off topic here, but even the quick  "scanning" left to right is BS. People do it way too fast for their brain to even pick up what they're looking at.  John Lovell (Warrior Poet) explained this. He has a phrase he says. Scan left and say "Does anybody else want to play". THen scan right and repeat "does anybody else want to play". Then look behind left and say "Did he bring any friends". Then look behind right and say "Did he bring any friends". Then look back at the bad guy on the ground "Make sure he's still down".  All said in a normal rate of speech.  He states that this is the fastest his brain can scan/comprehend visuals. Anyone doing the half second left to right is just going thru the motions.

Of course this is 1 mans philosophy, but I did a drill with "scanning". You place various papers (8x11)  around you on the wall with big numbers or letters on them in a random order. Have a friend call out a number/letter and you have to find it.  It took me longer than the half second scanning of side to side for my brain to process the info. At 1 point a number was called and it took me like 20 seconds to find it. I thought he was screwing with me and that number wasn't posted.  All this was done with the pistol at the ready position.

John also mentions tunnel vision. He did a class and spoke to a SWAT officer who responded to a shooter in a supermarket.  The officer swears he pulled the trigger multiple times. But the guy didn't drop, nor did he hear any bang or flash or recoil of his AR. So he went behind concealment and did a malfunction check. When he peaked back up, the bad guy was on the ground dead. So this SWAT officer did fire his rifle multiple times, but tunnel vision set in and he didn't feel/hear anything.  No one else shot the guy.
One aspect to watch out for the “scan and assess” is going through the motions in “training”. Becomes habit of jair going through motions to have completed the course of fire. Be purpose driven and why, vice “what I was told”.

Flapp_Jackson

Re: Premature, but what gun would you carry if HI allows CCW/Open carry
« Reply #45 on: July 08, 2022, 01:15:32 PM »
...
Going off topic here, but even the quick  "scanning" left to right is BS. People do it way too fast for their brain to even pick up what they're looking at.  John Lovell (Warrior Poet) explained this. He has a phrase he says. Scan left and say "Does anybody else want to play". THen scan right and repeat "does anybody else want to play". Then look behind left and say "Did he bring any friends". Then look behind right and say "Did he bring any friends". Then look back at the bad guy on the ground "Make sure he's still down".  All said in a normal rate of speech.  He states that this is the fastest his brain can scan/comprehend visuals. Anyone doing the half second left to right is just going thru the motions.

Of course this is 1 mans philosophy, but I did a drill with "scanning". You place various papers (8x11)  around you on the wall with big numbers or letters on them in a random order. Have a friend call out a number/letter and you have to find it.  It took me longer than the half second scanning of side to side for my brain to process the info. At 1 point a number was called and it took me like 20 seconds to find it. I thought he was screwing with me and that number wasn't posted.  All this was done with the pistol at the ready position.

John also mentions tunnel vision. He did a class and spoke to a SWAT officer who responded to a shooter in a supermarket.  The officer swears he pulled the trigger multiple times. But the guy didn't drop, nor did he hear any bang or flash or recoil of his AR. So he went behind concealment and did a malfunction check. When he peaked back up, the bad guy was on the ground dead. So this SWAT officer did fire his rifle multiple times, but tunnel vision set in and he didn't feel/hear anything.  No one else shot the guy.

Practicing to scan left, right and back forward again is a good thing.  Tunnel vision will make you focus on the threat you see in front of you.  Once you're sure the threat is stopped, at least stopped enough to give you a second or two, you do need to break out of that tunnel.

Even if you don't actually take the entire scene in as you scan, your peripheral vision will be able to catch movement telling you to realign your focus.  Facing the first threat keeps you inside that tunnel.

I also thought the too-fast left-right scan at FS training was being ignored.  They should have made the students count to 2 as their head turn stopped, just to give the brain time to catch up with what the eyes are seeing.  The trainers should have corrected them, "You're not shaking your head 'No.'  You're checking to see if you're really out of danger."

The reasonable man adapts himself to the world;
the unreasonable one persists in trying to adapt the world to himself.
Therefore, all progress depends on the unreasonable man.
-- George Bernard Shaw

changemyoil66

Re: Premature, but what gun would you carry if HI allows CCW/Open carry
« Reply #46 on: July 08, 2022, 01:16:42 PM »
One aspect to watch out for the “scan and assess” is going through the motions in “training”. Becomes habit of jair going through motions to have completed the course of fire. Be purpose driven and why, vice “what I was told”.

Yup, muscle memory is a thing. That's why during SB's I don't just do the drill to be the fastest, it's often I do it at what pace I would normally do it.  The last HDF SB it was a combo. We did a square walking drill. Walk left and shoot 1 shot with rifle, then walk backward and shoot 1 shot with pistol, then walk right and 2 shots with rifle, then walk forward and 2 shots with pistol. Then walk left and 3 shots with rifle and so on until time runs out.  I guy was wondering why after my 1 shots, I still held on the target and didn't just speed up my walk pace so I can do the next transition. I explained that I was working on keeping gun on target and the same speed, I wasn't trying to be the fasted to finish.  Due to this, I didn't get the "cone". But I'm sure the guy who did earn the cone would have beaten me anyways.  He is a very good shooter.

Itsshowtime808

Re: Premature, but what gun would you carry if HI allows CCW/Open carry
« Reply #47 on: July 09, 2022, 05:33:17 AM »
What you guys think of carrying a p-01??

was planning to make mines like this and carry....



gonna start practicing with the p-01, glock 43/43x (maybe add comps to either) and glock 48...  i really like the slimmer profile on these :geekdanc:
Gun Control
(Adjective)
1.Using both hands
2.Hitting your target every time
3.Buying one when you really want two, three, four, or five

changemyoil66

Re: Premature, but what gun would you carry if HI allows CCW/Open carry
« Reply #48 on: July 09, 2022, 08:52:16 AM »
What you guys think of carrying a p-01??

was planning to make mines like this and carry....



gonna start practicing with the p-01, glock 43/43x (maybe add comps to either) and glock 48...  i really like the slimmer profile on these :geekdanc:
Weight might be a factor.

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bushmasta55

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Re: Premature, but what gun would you carry if HI allows CCW/Open carry
« Reply #49 on: July 09, 2022, 03:35:32 PM »
Just got back from Vegas a few days ago.  I brought up my 43x with a alien gear holster (appendix carry), along with a mag holder.  Holster was very comfortable and concealed very nicely.  I have to play dress up prior to flying up to make sure the shirts and the pants/shorts work with ccw.  Maybe looking into  Glock26 for another ccw gun.
Beer belly helps in hiding the gun while carry appendix.   

changemyoil66

Re: Premature, but what gun would you carry if HI allows CCW/Open carry
« Reply #50 on: July 09, 2022, 09:23:03 PM »
Just got back from Vegas a few days ago.  I brought up my 43x with a alien gear holster (appendix carry), along with a mag holder.  Holster was very comfortable and concealed very nicely.  I have to play dress up prior to flying up to make sure the shirts and the pants/shorts work with ccw.  Maybe looking into  Glock26 for another ccw gun.
Beer belly helps in hiding the gun while carry appendix.   
Blast the AC so u dont sweat and have to wash the clothes.

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changemyoil66

Re: Premature, but what gun would you carry if HI allows CCW/Open carry
« Reply #51 on: July 11, 2022, 08:42:58 AM »
Got to try a Shield and a G43 this weekend.  Thanks Dogman!

The diff between the Shield and Shield Plus models are basically the trigger is much better on a Plus. It isn't the lever type safety trigger, but a bladed on instead.

The diff between a G43 and  a G43X frame is the grip length. The G43, pinky hangs off the base. G43X, pinky is on the grip.  This can be solved though with a G43 extended mag, so your pinky can grip.

So I the recoil was less on the Shield.  Both I wasn't as accurate with though. So at 10 yards on a torso shaped steel, with the M45 I can get like 9 of 10 hits with faster moderate speed.  With the same speed on the VP9 it's like 7/8 of 10.  With both sub compacts it was like 3 of 10. And even  with slow fire, it was like 3 of 10.  I remember watching 1 YT'er (Honest Outlaw) and he mentions these smaller pistols will be much less accurate and aren't really designed to go 25 yards and even 10 yards don't expect much (rounds touching grouping). But he was able to do it (Indian not the arrow). Which would mean when I buy which ever model I want, I need to practice a lot.

With my M&P9C (like a thicker Shield due to a double stack mag), I got like 6/7 of 10 hits on steel. But this has an Apex trigger and I'm used to this gun. So Indian, not the arrow most likely.

Just need to try out a P365X next. Which I probably will do in Vegas next month at a rental range.

stangzilla

Re: Premature, but what gun would you carry if HI allows CCW/Open carry
« Reply #52 on: July 11, 2022, 04:55:04 PM »
I'm still on the fence about which pistol I want to carry
got it narrowed down to 3:  G19 with optic and light, Hellcat with optic, P365 no optic
I like the G19 bc I can shoot it the best and reload the mags easier than the other 2.  but it's bigger than the other 2.  and carrying it in my pocket is a no go bc its a little too big for my pocket
I like the Hellcat bc its smaller than the G19, I can carry in the pocket, and I can shoot it almost as accurately as the G19. although I only had the Hellcat for a few weeks
I like the P365 bc its smaller than the G19, about the same size as the Hellcat.  I like the manual safety for pocket carry. 
being able to pocket carry isn't a necessity, but its an option I like to have
either of the 3 will work for ccw, just trying to decide which one will work best in all or most situations for me

QUIETShooter

Re: Premature, but what gun would you carry if HI allows CCW/Open carry
« Reply #53 on: July 11, 2022, 05:22:42 PM »
I envy the mainland guys who alternate their concealed carry guns every once in a while.  Obviously the ccw laws there permit them to do so.

Would be nice if Hawaii would implement something like that too.  Or at least issue one permit with a listing of which gun the licensee intends to carry at any given time.

But who are we kidding.  Hawaii would probably issue one ccw permit per gun.  Just like how you have to have one PTA per handgun.
Sometimes you gotta know when to save your bullets.

Direjackalope

Re: Premature, but what gun would you carry if HI allows CCW/Open carry
« Reply #54 on: July 11, 2022, 05:24:10 PM »
I envy the mainland guys who alternate their concealed carry guns every once in a while.  Obviously the ccw laws there permit them to do so.

Would be nice if Hawaii would implement something like that too.  Or at least issue one permit with a listing of which gun the licensee intends to carry at any given time.

But who are we kidding.  Hawaii would probably issue one ccw permit per gun.  Just like how you have to have one PTA per handgun.

You can always get a Sig with different grip modules.

Flapp_Jackson

Re: Premature, but what gun would you carry if HI allows CCW/Open carry
« Reply #55 on: July 11, 2022, 07:04:54 PM »
You can always get a Sig with different grip modules.

Same serial.
Same manufacturer.
Same model.
Same caliber.

That should work!

One of the primary reasons Sig went with the modular FCG was for markets where the number of handguns anyone can own is limited.  Seems that now applies to what's recorded on your Hawaii CC License.

 :thumbsup:
The reasonable man adapts himself to the world;
the unreasonable one persists in trying to adapt the world to himself.
Therefore, all progress depends on the unreasonable man.
-- George Bernard Shaw

changemyoil66

Re: Premature, but what gun would you carry if HI allows CCW/Open carry
« Reply #56 on: July 11, 2022, 08:12:22 PM »
The 365 also has a FCG.

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changemyoil66

Re: Premature, but what gun would you carry if HI allows CCW/Open carry
« Reply #57 on: July 12, 2022, 04:25:47 PM »
G43x is out. Its longer which for AIWB affects a seated position. And looks super plain jane. Plus i hate the sights on it. So more $ to change them out. But would still be cheaper than a 365X.



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Flapp_Jackson

Re: Premature, but what gun would you carry if HI allows CCW/Open carry
« Reply #58 on: July 12, 2022, 05:50:19 PM »
G43x is out. Its longer which for AIWB affects a seated position. And looks super plain jane. Plus i hate the sights on it. So more $ to change them out. But would still be cheaper than a 365X.


Consider it an insurance policy.

How much more would you be willing to pay if one policy protects you substantially better than a cheaper one?
The reasonable man adapts himself to the world;
the unreasonable one persists in trying to adapt the world to himself.
Therefore, all progress depends on the unreasonable man.
-- George Bernard Shaw

changemyoil66

Re: Premature, but what gun would you carry if HI allows CCW/Open carry
« Reply #59 on: July 12, 2022, 06:24:56 PM »
Consider it an insurance policy.

How much more would you be willing to pay if one policy protects you substantially better than a cheaper one?
Thats the problem, all 3 have its pros and cons. So to help narrow down, g43x got cut. All 3 not in the various LGS showcases.

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