So with the AG letter directing the Chiefs to no longer apply exceptional need and (should) start issuing permits, we all need to be wary of any "hidden" requirements of carry.

What exactly is CCW? To most of us we understand that to be "concealing" our firearms from view. But to our local PD, it may be in their eyes something completely different. It's not like they don't have a history of making up their own rules.

Does concealed mean only in an IWB holster and tucked in shirt? IWB and cover shirt? OWB "concealed type" pancake holster and shirt covering?

What about if we're IWB and tshirt and we bend over to get the case of beer from the bottom rack at 7-11 and our shirt rides up and over?

What about fanny pack carry? We open up to get our wallet out and our gun is visible?

Where does printing come in?

Are we "brandishing"? Most would say no as it's incidental exposure and not purposeful based on Federal law. But we need to protect ourselves.

Definition: 18 USC § 924(c)(4) brandish
(4) For purposes of this subsection, the term “brandish” means, with respect to a firearm, to display all or part of the firearm, or otherwise make the presence of the firearm known to another person, in order to intimidate that person, regardless of whether the firearm is directly visible to that person.

We also need to be wary of "sensitive places" and what they are. Schools, government buildings, etc.. Does a "No Guns" sign have the force of law? Or do we have to be trespassed first?


Hopefully we can get HiFiCo, HRA & HDF to put some programs together for us and widely disseminate and also talk to the AGs office for guidance. We already know we're in an adversarial role, so we need to be good stewards knowing we're going to have a couple idiots out there to ruin it for us.

I hope none of us become a test case, but now is definitely a time to get the USCCA insurance or from anyone that insures firearms owners. My guess is that we're going to need it.

Sent from my SM-G781U using Tapatalk

So with the AG letter directing the Chiefs to no longer apply exceptional need and (should) start issuing permits, we all need to be wary of any "hidden" requirements of carry.

What exactly is CCW? To most of us we understand that to be "concealing" our firearms from view. But to our local PD, it may be in their eyes something completely different. It's not like they don't have a history of making up their own rules.

Does concealed mean only in an IWB holster and tucked in shirt? IWB and cover shirt? OWB "concealed type" pancake holster and shirt covering?

What about if we're IWB and tshirt and we bend over to get the case of beer from the bottom rack at 7-11 and our shirt rides up and over?

What about fanny pack carry? We open up to get our wallet out and our gun is visible?

Where does printing come in?

Are we "brandishing"? Most would say no as it's incidental exposure and not purposeful based on Federal law. But we need to protect ourselves.

Definition: 18 USC § 924(c)(4) brandish
(4) For purposes of this subsection, the term “brandish” means, with respect to a firearm, to display all or part of the firearm, or otherwise make the presence of the firearm known to another person, in order to intimidate that person, regardless of whether the firearm is directly visible to that person.

We also need to be wary of "sensitive places" and what they are. Schools, government buildings, etc.. Does a "No Guns" sign have the force of law? Or do we have to be trespassed first?


Hopefully we can get HiFiCo, HRA & HDF to put some programs together for us and widely disseminate and also talk to the AGs office for guidance. We already know we're in an adversarial role, so we need to be good stewards knowing we're going to have a couple idiots out there to ruin it for us.

I hope none of us become a test case, but now is definitely a time to get the USCCA insurance or from anyone that insures firearms owners. My guess is that we're going to need it.

Sent from my SM-G781U using Tapatalk

I'm looking at

https://ccwsafe.com/page/23779

as an alternative to USCCA.
Anybody out there have any inputs?
CCWsafe covers red flag, cops not returning your guns,
and a little more of the stuff we expect here in Hawaii.
 

I'm looking at

https://ccwsafe.com/page/23779

as an alternative to USCCA.
Anybody out there have any inputs?
CCWsafe covers red flag, cops not returning your guns,
and a little more of the stuff we expect here in Hawaii.
 

NOTE: The following states NY (New York), NJ (New Jersey) and WA (Washington) do not
allow coverage for self defense incidents. Residents from these states cannot purchase this
plan.  However, Law enforcement can be covered in NY.

That's some real BS right there.  I know my NRA Carry policy was cancelled because NY decided NRA wasn't licensed to sell insurance in the state.

I guess anything that protects gun owners is bad -- e.g. the Constitution. 

But, this is the first I've heard of them.  USCCA has been around for a long time, and they continually upgrade their coverages.  Wouldn't surprise me if competition forces them to copy anything others like CCWSafe are offering.

I'll do some research online later to see if there are any experiences or comparisons.

 

I don't think those things will be a problem.  The method of carrying concealed, IWB v OWB doesn't matter as concealed is concealed.  If your gun is printing or showing, then I'd think criminals seeing it and robbing you would be a greater threat. It's more the carrier being paranoid about printing when everyone else doesn't notice and that goes away with time. Thin women can wear a full size Glock or 1911 and not show. 

I don't think those things will be a problem.  The method of carrying concealed, IWB v OWB doesn't matter as concealed is concealed.  If your gun is printing or showing, then I'd think criminals seeing it and robbing you would be a greater threat. It's more the carrier being paranoid about printing when everyone else doesn't notice and that goes away with time. Thin women can wear a full size Glock or 1911 and not show.

I absolutely agree.  98% of people don't pay much attention to other people, unless they are really good looking or really ugly.

I haven't yet seen what other states will say about our CCW permits once issued. Will our permits be good in some other states?

I haven't yet seen what other states will say about our CCW permits once issued. Will our permits be good in some other states?

No.

Sent from my SM-G991U using Tapatalk

So with the AG letter directing the Chiefs to no longer apply exceptional need and (should) start issuing permits, we all need to be wary of any "hidden" requirements of carry.

What exactly is CCW? To most of us we understand that to be "concealing" our firearms from view. But to our local PD, it may be in their eyes something completely different. It's not like they don't have a history of making up their own rules.

Does concealed mean only in an IWB holster and tucked in shirt? IWB and cover shirt? OWB "concealed type" pancake holster and shirt covering?

What about if we're IWB and tshirt and we bend over to get the case of beer from the bottom rack at 7-11 and our shirt rides up and over?

What about fanny pack carry? We open up to get our wallet out and our gun is visible?

Where does printing come in?

Are we "brandishing"? Most would say no as it's incidental exposure and not purposeful based on Federal law. But we need to protect ourselves.

Definition: 18 USC § 924(c)(4) brandish
(4) For purposes of this subsection, the term “brandish” means, with respect to a firearm, to display all or part of the firearm, or otherwise make the presence of the firearm known to another person, in order to intimidate that person, regardless of whether the firearm is directly visible to that person.

We also need to be wary of "sensitive places" and what they are. Schools, government buildings, etc.. Does a "No Guns" sign have the force of law? Or do we have to be trespassed first?


Hopefully we can get HiFiCo, HRA & HDF to put some programs together for us and widely disseminate and also talk to the AGs office for guidance. We already know we're in an adversarial role, so we need to be good stewards knowing we're going to have a couple idiots out there to ruin it for us.

I hope none of us become a test case, but now is definitely a time to get the USCCA insurance or from anyone that insures firearms owners. My guess is that we're going to need it.

Sent from my SM-G781U using Tapatalk

Sad but perfectly valid reasoning. Heard a lot of good about USCCA, but I personally have had CCWSafe since I heard NYSRPA v Bruen was headed to SCOTUS, especially since I travel to a lot of states (thanks constitutional carry for now being a thing after I got my FL license 😑😂). The different levels of coverage is good for me, especially at $19/ month and even covers you while carrying (Constitutional/ permitted/  LEOSA plans available) in AND out of the home, even in this anti-2A state. Not meant to be an ad, but just goes to show one company may not be right for all, but there are others out there to explore.

Should we have to have carry insurance? No. But having it just in case you have to have an unfortunate discharge can mean the difference between potentially walking free and being another unfortunate and ironic statistic. Most of us, I’d assume, can’t afford a good lawyer especially a pro-2A one, and even if those strings get pulled it can still become detrimentally expensive to use.

So again, be educated and train, and never stop, because we truly are our only hope of surviving this seemingly anti-gun system. Always make sure the person to the left and right of you are squared away because we should be the good stewards of our right to carry and own firearms. And be ever-mindful and aware of your environment always. Rant over 😵‍💫

I'm looking at

https://ccwsafe.com/page/23779

as an alternative to USCCA.
Anybody out there have any inputs?
CCWsafe covers red flag, cops not returning your guns,
and a little more of the stuff we expect here in Hawaii.
 

I have CCWSafe. Awesome company. And gosh forbid your payment doesn’t go through or your lack funds, you get an ahead of time warning and a grace period. And god forbid it ever does cancel, you just log right back in and make a payment and it gets reactivated immediately. Ask me how I know 😵‍💫

I haven't yet seen what other states will say about our CCW permits once issued. Will our permits be good in some other states?

There will be some with very lax reciprocity laws.  But still better to get an out of state one somewhere else.

There will be some with very lax reciprocity laws.  But still better to get an out of state one somewhere else.

Have to go back to Vegas to get the NV out of the way again. Haven't been back in 3 years. But I have my AZ and that's valid in NV.

Fun fact, if you've taken a handgun safety class here in HI, you qualify for the AZ CCW and you do it all by mail.

I suggest everyone write a formal letter to Chief Logan regarding your carry permit and request action on signing and issuing them in a timely manner, regardless of his excuses. Truthfully permits can be issued to law-abiding citizens despite the state’s obvious desire to circumvent it, as we already are legally allowed to operate, own, and handle firearms as proven by our firearm safety and training affidavits and HI Hunter’s Ed certificates while having currently registered guns in the state as required by HPD to apply for a permit.

As suggested and heard a million times, the adage “write your legislators”, etc., the more letters that go out to him will hopefully start to make him realize that a large portion of the state’s citizens want a timely action. I’ve cited SCOTUS’ NYSRPA v. Bruen case and his official duties as expressed in HRA 134-9. Even if you don’t have true faith that he will act sooner, we should all submit something to him to show we are serious and won’t back down on our Constitutionally protected rights as expressed and affirmed by the SCOTUS.

Acting will always be better and potentially more effective than complaining without action. I am mailing mine tomorrow directly to the Chief. Once mine is sent, that will be 3 letters sent to him since the ruling of the Supreme Court that we know of.