I didn't even know bullets can ricochet off a dirt or sandy berm.  I guess it's similar when we skip stones off the water surface?  But bullet configuration vs. the flat sided surface of a stone......

A shot aimed in the air makes sense to me.  But if that was the case, why are they re-building the berms?

Sorry gang, just thinking out loud.  As it was mentioned, I should just shut up and wait for the official report and announcement scheduled for today.

I think the ricochet would come off the metal targets or steel frames that some people use.  In any case better to shut down and do preventive maintenance.  I saw a ricochet come back from the silhouette side and that’s 50 yds with handgun.

There was a high angle bullet strike on a car in Hawaii Kai a week ago, though the person is unsure exactly where it happened and where the bullet came from.  A bullet was recovered from the car and police report made.

It could be related to that, though I don't think a ricochet would do that, more like a round shot high.  If it was planned range maintenance, then notice would've been made a lot earlier.  Don't think it would be related to lead poisoning either.

This reminds me of the time they shut down the range for a while last time, indicating concerns of "high angle strike".  Believe numerous studies were done (informal and formal) and showed highly unlikely.  At least for the Kalama Valley one.  There are those who set off rounds at places like Sandy's and other places. 

I still can't see a ricochet from the pistol range going anywhere.  Yeah, MAYBE one of those stray bullets that make the holes in the sunshades.  Going to make the range look like on the mainland where they have those ports to shoot from.  Tards with zero muzzle discipline. 

I didn't even know bullets can ricochet off a dirt or sandy berm.  I guess it's similar when we skip stones off the water surface?  But bullet configuration vs. the flat sided surface of a stone......

A shot aimed in the air makes sense to me.  But if that was the case, why are they re-building the berms?

Sorry gang, just thinking out loud.  As it was mentioned, I should just shut up and wait for the official report and announcement scheduled for today.

The bullets are supposed to all go directly into the dirt backstop which would stop the bullets.  However there are riccochete hazards when they don't do that.  Many reasons...

1.  Backstop not maintained.  Bullets will pile up inside the backstop if not regularly removed, and bullets fired into the mass will ricochet.
2.  50 Yard target.  Bullets will hit the ground at a shallow angle and some may skip over the backstop.  Which is why they pile sand on the ground to catch the bullets.
3.  Steel tarets, frames, rocks, other objects.  Bullets can deflect off objects.  Skim the top of the frame and go over the backstop.  Hit the edge of a frame at 50 yards deflect to a steel target at 100 to the side, then deflect off a the steel target rebar legs back to the firing line.
4.  Cratered steel plates.  Shoot a crater in a worn steel plate could result in the bullet or splatter coming back to the firing line.

If something has a one in a million chance of happening, and you fire a million bullets, that chance will happen.

There's a reason for the range rules at Koko Head though they may not be apparrent.  One of the range safety improvement ideas was to bulldoze the elevated rifle firing positions and level it flat, so that the shooter, 50 yard target, and backstop are in line to prevent ricochets.

The bullets are supposed to all go directly into the dirt backstop which would stop the bullets.  However there are riccochete hazards when they don't do that.  Many reasons...

1.  Backstop not maintained.  Bullets will pile up inside the backstop if not regularly removed, and bullets fired into the mass will ricochet.
2.  50 Yard target.  Bullets will hit the ground at a shallow angle and some may skip over the backstop.  Which is why they pile sand on the ground to catch the bullets.
3.  Steel tarets, frames, rocks, other objects.  Bullets can deflect off objects.  Skim the top of the frame and go over the backstop.  Hit the edge of a frame at 50 yards deflect to a steel target at 100 to the side, then deflect off a the steel target rebar legs back to the firing line.
4.  Cratered steel plates.  Shoot a crater in a worn steel plate could result in the bullet or splatter coming back to the firing line.

If something has a one in a million chance of happening, and you fire a million bullets, that chance will happen.

There's a reason for the range rules at Koko Head though they may not be apparrent.  One of the range safety improvement ideas was to bulldoze the elevated rifle firing positions and level it flat, so that the shooter, 50 yard target, and backstop are in line to prevent ricochets.

Wow, if they decide to bulldoze the elevated rifle positions, that is a big job and will take a long time...

This reminds me of the time they shut down the range for a while last time, indicating concerns of "high angle strike".  Believe numerous studies were done (informal and formal) and showed highly unlikely.  At least for the Kalama Valley one.  There are those who set off rounds at places like Sandy's and other places. 

I still can't see a ricochet from the pistol range going anywhere.  Yeah, MAYBE one of those stray bullets that make the holes in the sunshades.  Going to make the range look like on the mainland where they have those ports to shoot from.  Tards with zero muzzle discipline.

A strike outside the crater is highly unlikely but very possible with the high volume of rounds fired. One out of a million odds, fire a million bullets and it happens.  Lets say there's 200 people shooting each weekend day, and 75 per weekday day, each shooting 60 rounds.  That's 37,500 rounds per week, or two million rounds per year.

I calculated the trajectory and angles from the Kalama valley incident and it likely was shot from the range.  Or Hanauma bay, top of Koko Crater, or the stables, or the sewage treatement plant.  So these things do happen.

Wow, if they decide to bulldoze the elevated rifle positions, that is a big job and will take a long time...

Yea, just range safety improvements and updating it for compliance alone would likely cost five to ten million.  Level the rifle and silhouette firing lines, add downrange baffles, increase the height of the backstops, and so on.  It's something that has to be done or the range will eventually be closed.

Yea, just range safety improvements and updating it for compliance alone would likely cost five to ten million.  Level the rifle and silhouette firing lines, add downrange baffles, increase the height of the backstops, and so on.  It's something that has to be done or the range will eventually be closed.

it would certainly be easier to fill in the area between the firing line and the 100 yards than to level the elevated firing positions

it should be noted again that the rifle range was never designed for 50 yard targets
if the city realizes this, they could take them away at any time...

Never thought about filling it in, guess it would be cheaper.  Leveling the firing line, increasing the backstop height, and adding baffles could open up a lot more opportunities.  Shoot at closer distances and handgun, like clark county range in vegas.

Never thought about filling it in, guess it would be cheaper.  Leveling the firing line, increasing the backstop height, and adding baffles could open up a lot more opportunities.  Shoot at closer distances and handgun, like clark county range in vegas.

Youre under the impression HI does stuff that makes sense.

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Filling in is going to be way cheaper & easier in the long run.

With lead in the range, any excavation is going to be expensive, as well as going to need a bunch of sampling and testing to determine levels, appropriate mitigation, etc.  Went through this a couple of times for the studies to improve ranges at Puuloa, Halawa, and other ranges in Guam and others.  Environmental stuff can take a long time.  Plus, groups like EPA looking at everything harder these days. . .

Filling in is going to be way cheaper & easier in the long run.

With lead in the range, any excavation is going to be expensive, as well as going to need a bunch of sampling and testing to determine levels, appropriate mitigation, etc.  Went through this a couple of times for the studies to improve ranges at Puuloa, Halawa, and other ranges in Guam and others.  Environmental stuff can take a long time.  Plus, groups like EPA looking at everything harder these days. . .

Excavating wouldn't be a problem, except for PPE.  Extra dirt would go into the side berms and backstop.

Excavating wouldn't be a problem, except for PPE.  Extra dirt would go into the side berms and backstop.

The excavating work is easy. . .

Check on the timeline for sampling and testing prior to the work, then to get the permits. . .

I mean I guess the C&C can just forego environmental permits and stuff. . .

at least I have a few 22 firearms and choke 22 ammo that I've been hoarding   

at least I have a few 22 firearms and choke 22 ammo that I've been hoarding   

Better hoard more.  I have a feeling prices will be up soon.

at least I have a few 22 firearms and choke 22 ammo that I've been hoarding   

I stocked up pretty good on .22 lr for my bolt action rifle.  Can always order more, but running out of room in my ammo storage "solution".   

I stocked up pretty good on .22 lr for my bolt action rifle.  Can always order more, but running out of room in my ammo storage "solution".   

me too.  I'm tripping over boxes of ammo and ammo cans at my house.  I guess that's a good thing   

Wow, range work is not as simple as just throwing dirt to make a berm then building a shooting shed.

I need to ask this question at the risk of showing how naive I am, but.....I am, lol!

Why would it be ok to shoot .22 LR?  Lower velocity?  Less bullet mass?

And is it ok to have shooters firing in one bay while work is being done on the other?  (Say people shooting at pistol bulleye while contractors working on the rifle side.)

Better hoard more.  I have a feeling prices will be up soon.

I always wonder if I have enough.  My wife said 'nough already, lol!  But when I appeal to her finance sense and say that so and so is having a deal on case sales she eventually gives in.

As long as I say that the case lot will be more expensive if I buy later on, she'll say ok, go buy um, go.

Wow, range work is not as simple as just throwing dirt to make a berm then building a shooting shed.

I need to ask this question at the risk of showing how naive I am, but.....I am, lol!

Why would it be ok to shoot .22 LR?  Lower velocity?  Less bullet mass?

And is it ok to have shooters firing in one bay while work is being done on the other?  (Say people shooting at pistol bulleye while contractors working on the rifle side.)

#1.  Koko head is a little different, with hikers nad development nearby so it's harder Vs a place in no man's land.

#2.  22 is safer due to lower power, and much lower max range.

#3.  There's other issues like breathing in clouds of lead dust drifting over the range.

I stocked up pretty good on .22 lr for my bolt action rifle.  Can always order more, but running out of room in my ammo storage "solution".   

me too.  I'm tripping over boxes of ammo and ammo cans at my house.  I guess that's a good thing   

What a wonderful "problem" to have!   I ran out of ammo cans for the last case of ammo I bought.