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Funny how the state sponsers the Hunter's Education Class but there is no live-fire portion.  I think this portion is important, especially for new gun owners.

So yeah, it contradicts the "increasing public safety" mantra they harp.  In my opinion the state is full of shiite and doesn't give a rat's ass about public safety.

I dont plan to write a peer reviewed paper but I spoke to a LGS and they said they will suffer if the range shuts down. No public venue to shoot. Less ammo bought. Less desire for guns. Several clubs use the range. Silhouette. Shotgun. Action. Bullseye pistol Smallbore.
We need a town hall meeting with the Mayor to assure us the City will keep the range open.

I agree.  The LGS will suffer.  Ammo prices are coming down.  Hey, maybe it will get to the point where they will give it away.....NOT! but I bet it get's close. 

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That's why it important to sign in as a user count of facility.

Funny how the state sponsers the Hunter's Education Class but there is no live-fire portion.  I think this portion is important, especially for new gun owners.

So yeah, it contradicts the "increasing public safety" mantra they harp.  In my opinion the state is full of shiite and doesn't give a rat's ass about public safety.

I’m a former master hunter Ed instructor for the state. Way back in the day every hunter Ed instructor except for one argued there MUST be a live fire portion in pistol, rifle and shotgun, given by HE instructors who were NRA certified in all three disciplines. DOCARE and DLNR endorsed the recommendation but the C&C and the state decided it was not necessary to have all that training, classroom was enough and that it would fulfill the requirement for a handgun permit to acquire, Big big mistake.
Just a little history….

I dont plan to write a peer reviewed paper but I spoke to a LGS and they said they will suffer if the range shuts down. No public venue to shoot. Less ammo bought. Less desire for guns. Several clubs use the range. Silhouette. Shotgun. Action. Bullseye pistol Smallbore.
We need a town hall meeting with the Mayor to assure us the City will keep the range open.

Oh, well, if you spoke to a LGS then I withdraw all questions about your assumptions and your data, as your evidence is unquestionably valid and proves your claim, which was:

"You know this whole firearms "situation" would go away if they simply banned ranges."

Just to be clear, your assertion is that "firearms will go away, if the ranges are closed" and is based upon you talking to some person at a LGS who claims their business will decrease.

That seems par for your woefully inadequate understanding of logic.

PS By the way, the public range has been closed for 5 weeks now, how far down is the LGS business so far? Did they give you a timeline as to when they will be forced to close due to everyone having sold all their guns to out of state buyers due to lack of a public range?

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Not looking for an argument. Looking for a way to open the range and keep it open. If you want to argue there's lots of trees in Kapiolani Park.

Yeah, you just want to make absurd statements (having nothing to do with "looking for a way to open the range") and expect people to go "Yeah, brilliant point. What a deep thinker."

So, when is the range going to reopen so the LGSs can stay in business? I'm sure the C&C doesn't want to lose all that tax revenue.

Yeah, you just want to make absurd statements (having nothing to do with "looking for a way to open the range") and expect people to go "Yeah, brilliant point. What a deep thinker."

So, when is the range going to reopen so the LGSs can stay in business? I'm sure the C&C doesn't want to lose all that tax revenue.

Man you’re being a little rough there. How about lightening it up some. While there are some pretty smart people on this forum, none are a genius. We need to agree to disagree with respect. Just my honest opinion.  :

Man you’re being a little rough there. How about lightening it up some. While there are some pretty smart people on this forum, none are a genius. We need to agree to disagree with respect. Just my honest opinion.  :

I apologize. I'm so sorry. It was wrong of me to point out the illogic, contradictions, and lack of factual evidence in a post making unsupported and illogical claims (thus far unanswered).

I'm sure neither Thomas Paine nor Harry Truman would ever have done such a disrespectful thing.

I apologize. I'm so sorry. It was wrong of me to point out the illogic, contradictions, and lack of factual evidence in a post making unsupported and illogical claims (thus far unanswered).

I'm sure neither Thomas Paine nor Harry Truman would ever have done such a disrespectful thing.

You're neither Thomas Paine nor Harry Truman.

"Respectfully" pointing that out, in case you were confused.

bruh

I’m a former master hunter Ed instructor for the state. Way back in the day every hunter Ed instructor except for one argued there MUST be a live fire portion in pistol, rifle and shotgun, given by HE instructors who were NRA certified in all three disciplines. DOCARE and DLNR endorsed the recommendation but the C&C and the state decided it was not necessary to have all that training, classroom was enough and that it would fulfill the requirement for a handgun permit to acquire, Big big mistake.
Just a little history….

Thank you for being an instructor!
I had lost my WA state hunters license and could not find my CA hunter safety
course diploma, so I had to take the Hawaii course. 
I always made sure any kids living in my house took a hunter safety course.
I've helped raise more kids than my child., those courses always included live fire.
Not Hawaii, I was not impressed with the Hawaii course.
The instructor after graduation asked if I'd be interested in teaching the archery part.
He was serious!  I had hunted modern, muzzle loader and Archery for years.
So I must have let it show.
Anyway thanks.
 

You're neither Thomas Paine nor Harry Truman.

"Respectfully" pointing that out, in case you were confused.

LOL coming from you.

LOL coming from you.

I never compared myself to historically significant figures.

Just pointing out the fallacious straw argument posted by Mr. Logical.

Thank you for being an instructor!
I had lost my WA state hunters license and could not find my CA hunter safety
course diploma, so I had to take the Hawaii course. 
I always made sure any kids living in my house took a hunter safety course.
I've helped raise more kids than my child., those courses always included live fire.
Not Hawaii, I was not impressed with the Hawaii course.
The instructor after graduation asked if I'd be interested in teaching the archery part.
He was serious!  I had hunted modern, muzzle loader and Archery for years.
So I must have let it show.
Anyway thanks.
 

Thanks….
How long ago did you take the course? There were changes in the curriculum bout 1992. I mastered some classes on the BI in the late nineties when the masters there could not make it. Really enjoyed it and the students. Was also one of the masters who sponsored the Wilderness camp with Safari Club. During the summer HE Took 14 students from all the islands ages 10-12 up Mauna Kea the old ranger station in Keanu Kolu (spelling) for 4 days. Shooting, wildlife ID, survival, firearm safety, taxidermy and orienteering were taught. All the kids and instructors enjoyed it. We received letters from all the parents asking where their kids were, these were not the same kids they dropped off! I always looked forward to the camp every year (did 10 camps). To this day I see some of the kids, all grown up with families. The ask if I remember them and I must admit some I don’t but when they thank me for the great time they had it puts me on cloud 9. Left the program in 2017. Ok nuff of the memories…..

I never compared myself to historically significant figures.

Just pointing out the fallacious straw argument posted by Mr. Logical.

Your typical full of sh*t response.

I never compared myself to anyone. Show me where I did. You're a liar. Or stupid. Or both.

Please post the premises and conclusion of my "straw argument". Also, please provide an example of a non-fallacious straw argument.

I merely pointed out the that sub-message quotations from the person making the post were from two people who were often highly critical in very direct language of those that disagreed with them (i.e. not showing them "respect"). The poster's comment was "We need to agree to disagree with respect." Certainly both Paine and Truman utterred or wrote many statements that violated that standard. Why would the poster have one standard for those he quotes and another for others? Free to be inconsistent and contradictory, of course.

Your typical full of sh*t response.

I never compared myself to anyone. Show me where I did. You're a liar. Or stupid. Or both.

Please post the premises and conclusion of my "straw argument". Also, please provide an example of a non-fallacious straw argument.

I merely pointed out the that sub-message quotations from the person making the post were from two people who were often highly critical in very direct language of those that disagreed with them (i.e. not showing them "respect"). The poster's comment was "We need to agree to disagree with respect." Certainly both Paine and Truman utterred or wrote many statements that violated that standard. Why would the poster have one standard for those he quotes and another for others? Free to be inconsistent and contradictory, of course.

You get pretty emotional, huh?

Not the most logical character trait.