Well if that's the case........ (Read 2617 times)

QUIETShooter

Sometimes you gotta know when to save your bullets.

changemyoil66

Re: Well if that's the case........
« Reply #1 on: December 22, 2022, 12:09:14 PM »
Our military is being weakened little by little. I read an article that came out due to the Eddie Galleger situation.

For those who don't know, Eddie was an older SEAL who was charged with war crimes.  1 newer guy on his team said he put a knife to a wounded combatants throat.  However, vid of the situation and others confirmed he used his sheers to cut the clothing off to render aid to the wounded combatant,.  You would think this is where the "investigation" would have ended. But this went all the way up and he was arrested and put in solitary for months.  His lawyers were spied on and so was the comms between Eddie and them.  Since Eddie didn't break in the months he was in solitary with almost no contract with his wife/family, and their narrative was falling apart, they charged him with posing with a dead combatant instead in a picture.  Trump then pardoned him.

So the newer SEALS aren't team players according to the more veteran ones they interviewed and Eddie.  They feel more privileged and PC.  That hard charging, door kicking attitude of being a bad ass MOFO isn't what it used to be with the newer guys.  Like they cannot be trusted. 

So if this is happening in the teams, I assume other spec ops units as well.  Then you have Ranger selection (RASP) being made easier for all so a few women can pass.  My coworkers husband was in that first class that had the women graduate. He said that the cadre didn't smoke the females compared to others and it was very noticeable by all the students.  This is a HUGE deal. As the guys who stick out gets smoked the most.   

I knew a girl who's a dude.  The Midweek did an article on her because she also competed in men's physique for bodybuilding (board shorts worn).  She had her boobs removed and actually looked like a dude.  She stated that she felt very uncomfortable in female uniforms because of her size (she's bigger than me).  At the time she wasn't allowed to wear the male class A uniform (dress uniform).  She fought for this to change and to be able to ID as a male. IDK if it did or not. But her bf (guy who's a girl) ended up committing suicide later. 

After she got out of the military ,she was really into Native American heritage.  Like wearing the dressing and face paint.  She was proud to claim she was part of X tribe.  But people dug deeper and found out the tribe never approved her as she was not born into the tribe.  After this was known, she was flamed on IG for being a poser by the Native American community.  Since then she went dark.

For now, we still have the best military in the world.  But in 10 or 20 years, how will this hold up?  But these are examples of how others are trying to weaken it just to be PC.

For a positive note, I had a coworker who was enlisted and then went to ROTC and got her commission. She's a Chinese woman who is fit.  And not butch fit, but hot fit.  We worked out a few times and she out did me by super setting between sets. Of course she didn't do the amount of weight I was doing, but much more reps.  So once she got her commission, she would actually do the men's PT test.  She would max it out every time.  IIRC it was like 100 pushups in 2 minutes.  She would be able to complete RASP without lowering of the standard.  But at the time, women were not allowed.

QUIETShooter

Re: Well if that's the case........
« Reply #2 on: December 22, 2022, 01:06:58 PM »
All of this wokeness in the military will be the end of what once was the most disciplined and ferocious fighting force in the world.

I read the Rangers have a "special standard" for women "rangers".  There is a reason why the standards set by the Rangers is very high.  They are the spearhead of any infantry operation.  They need to perform faster, stronger, and longer (no sleep or food) or their missions will be compromised.

I got no problem with women meeting the Ranger standard.  But I do have a problem with "special standards".  You will not go on a mission with me.  They need Rangers.  Not woke rangers.

Same goes with all other special forces and front line units.

The Marines are a special breed.  I never expected this wokeness crap would penetrate the ranks of the Best Fighting Force in the World.

Enlisted men call each other by their last names.  To suggest lower ranking members address their superior officers and instructors by their last names is the beginning of a break in discipline, the very core of military doctrine, and the sad and pitiful start of a Pink Panty Brigade.

God help the United States Military.  We need their top officers to give the middle finger to this wokeness crap.
Sometimes you gotta know when to save your bullets.

groveler

Re: Well if that's the case........
« Reply #3 on: December 22, 2022, 01:53:12 PM »
House I grew up in, you addressed strange civilians as Sir or Mam.
Military I was taught to address officers by their rank or as Sir or Mam.
Enlisted were Airman or in my case Sargent..
My favorite retort to someone that calls me sir, "don't call me sir, I work for a living.".
I still use "Mam" for civilians. even girls young enough to be my grand daughters.
public setting only.

I was trained as one of those Gung Ho SAC trained killers.
I didn't crawl through jungles, I crawled over 20 kilo ton Nukes.
Focus was the same, "carry out the mission".
If a person is physically capable of carrying out the mission, I don't have a problem.
I have a problem with reducing the standards to accomplish some BS political agenda.
That applies to all of society.

robtmc

Re: Well if that's the case........
« Reply #4 on: December 22, 2022, 03:35:25 PM »
I never expected this wokeness crap would penetrate the ranks of the Best Fighting Force in the World.
it is not in the ranks, but the PC ambitious officer class that craves advancement and has no intention of leading troops in battle.
Say the correct things and get noticed by higher ranking PC officers.
NCOs and below are not going to do any more than not get slammed for not accepting homos by saying the wrong thing around PC officers.
In the barracks, different story..

Flapp_Jackson

Re: Well if that's the case........
« Reply #5 on: December 22, 2022, 04:21:10 PM »
House I grew up in, you addressed strange civilians as Sir or Mam.
Military I was taught to address officers by their rank or as Sir or Mam.
Enlisted were Airman or in my case Sargent..
My favorite retort to someone that calls me sir, "don't call me sir, I work for a living.".
I still use "Mam" for civilians. even girls young enough to be my grand daughters.
public setting only.

I was trained as one of those Gung Ho SAC trained killers.
I didn't crawl through jungles, I crawled over 20 kilo ton Nukes.
Focus was the same, "carry out the mission".
If a person is physically capable of carrying out the mission, I don't have a problem.
I have a problem with reducing the standards to accomplish some BS political agenda.
That applies to all of society.

With increases in technology and the need for military members learning how to operate and maintain complex weapons, communication and many other systems (e.g. nuclear power engineers in the Navy), there are way more officers serving now than there used to be compared to enlisted.  All pilots must have a college degree, as do almost all other officers.  There are too many candidates with degrees from higher education to justify commissioning officers without those credentials.

I worked in a high tech career in the Air Force, and my unit had about half civilian/half military personnel.  We also had about a 3:2 ratio of officers to enlisted.  Kind of sucked for the enlisted, because there were so few of them to do the extra duty jobs (cleaning, etc).  Almost all the civilians were officer equivalent pay grades.  Given the fact the military needs to compete with civilian industries for manpower, promoting well educated and experienced people requires they be in the officer ranks and high GS pay grades to provide competitive compensation.

Within the work area, we officers called the enlisted, civilians and our peers by our first names.  The enlisted called most non-enlisted by rank+last-name or Mr/Ms+last-name for civilians.

We had to be cognizant of visitors or being in other areas so we didn't use the less formal means of address, but it created a much better work environment given the mission we supported.

Were we in a combat situation, a less personal scheme would have been required.  It's hard to knowingly send someone you treat as an equal into a dangerous situation or hold them accountable if they fail to do their duty.

How to address others is covered in Customs and Courtesies training.  It's a process of teaching the chain of command, the force structure, and the proper way to give and follow orders.  If someone upsets that structure and those customs, you can count on discipline, security and authority at each level to be negatively impacted.  They are introducing a concept that has absolutely nothing to do with how the military functions, and that's critical in combat roles.
The reasonable man adapts himself to the world;
the unreasonable one persists in trying to adapt the world to himself.
Therefore, all progress depends on the unreasonable man.
-- George Bernard Shaw

changemyoil66

Re: Well if that's the case........
« Reply #6 on: December 22, 2022, 05:38:47 PM »
4got to add in no more shark attack in army basic. Had the SMA ask a drill instructor what he thought about no shark attack, which the SMA backed.  Of course the lonely DI will agree with the SMA.

SMA (sergeant major of the army) is the highest enlisted rank in the army. There is only 1 who holds this rank at a time. So its not some random asking the DI's opinion.

Sent from my SM-G991U using Tapatalk

groveler

Re: Well if that's the case........
« Reply #7 on: December 22, 2022, 06:52:34 PM »
With increases in technology and the need for military members learning how to operate and maintain complex weapons, communication and many other systems (e.g. nuclear power engineers in the Navy), there are way more officers serving now than there used to be compared to enlisted.  All pilots must have a college degree, as do almost all other officers.  There are too many candidates with degrees from higher education to justify commissioning officers without those credentials.

I worked in a high tech career in the Air Force, and my unit had about half civilian/half military personnel.  We also had about a 3:2 ratio of officers to enlisted.  Kind of sucked for the enlisted, because there were so few of them to do the extra duty jobs (cleaning, etc).  Almost all the civilians were officer equivalent pay grades.  Given the fact the military needs to compete with civilian industries for manpower, promoting well educated and experienced people requires they be in the officer ranks and high GS pay grades to provide competitive compensation.

Within the work area, we officers called the enlisted, civilians and our peers by our first names.  The enlisted called most non-enlisted by rank+last-name or Mr/Ms+last-name for civilians.

We had to be cognizant of visitors or being in other areas so we didn't use the less formal means of address, but it created a much better work environment given the mission we supported.

Were we in a combat situation, a less personal scheme would have been required.  It's hard to knowingly send someone you treat as an equal into a dangerous situation or hold them accountable if they fail to do their duty.

How to address others is covered in Customs and Courtesies training.  It's a process of teaching the chain of command, the force structure, and the proper way to give and follow orders.  If someone upsets that structure and those customs, you can count on discipline, security and authority at each level to be negatively impacted.  They are introducing a concept that has absolutely nothing to do with how the military functions, and that's critical in combat roles.
I ended my military active duty service as an E5.
I still hold hold that rank like you call a former active duty colonel.
Colonel.
I went on to earn a Bachelor of Science Computer science degree, which in my estimation
most of today's officers could not do.  Army tried to recruit me at age 34. Idiots.
I fail to see why a guy with a BA degree in poli-sci or education can fly an aircraft better than
an E5 that fixed aircraft for years.
One big failure of our military  is they think book learning alone is better than
an apprenticeship combined with book learning.
eg in WWII Patton was considered a great General, but without Bradley he would have failed.
The only decent  officers I ever worked with started out as enlisted, and worked their way up.
Respect is not demanded, it is earned.
I could train an 10 year old how to do most Military "high tech jobs".
One of the design biggest criteria is to make it idiot proof as we know idiots(AKA officers) will be operating it.
Just my opinion.
 :geekdanc:

robtmc

Re: Well if that's the case........
« Reply #8 on: December 23, 2022, 10:53:01 AM »
I fail to see why a guy with a BA degree in poli-sci or education can fly an aircraft better than
an E5 that fixed aircraft for years.

Chuck Yeager would agree.  One of the best pilots the world has known started as an enlisted aircraft mechanic.

ren

Re: Well if that's the case........
« Reply #9 on: December 23, 2022, 11:21:09 AM »
I ended my military active duty service as an E5.
I still hold hold that rank like you call a former active duty colonel.
Colonel.
I went on to earn a Bachelor of Science Computer science degree, which in my estimation
most of today's officers could not do.  Army tried to recruit me at age 34. Idiots.
I fail to see why a guy with a BA degree in poli-sci or education can fly an aircraft better than
an E5 that fixed aircraft for years.
One big failure of our military  is they think book learning alone is better than
an apprenticeship combined with book learning.
eg in WWII Patton was considered a great General, but without Bradley he would have failed.
The only decent  officers I ever worked with started out as enlisted, and worked their way up.
Respect is not demanded, it is earned.
I could train an 10 year old how to do most Military "high tech jobs".
One of the design biggest criteria is to make it idiot proof as we know idiots(AKA officers) will be operating it.
Just my opinion.
 :geekdanc:

are you a pilot?

Deeds Not Words

changemyoil66

Re: Well if that's the case........
« Reply #10 on: December 23, 2022, 11:47:28 AM »
Chuck Yeager would agree.  One of the best pilots the world has known started as an enlisted aircraft mechanic.
Ace in a day.

Sent from my SM-G991U using Tapatalk

groveler

Re: Well if that's the case........
« Reply #11 on: December 23, 2022, 01:11:48 PM »
are you a pilot?


No.
Wanted to be,  but life happened.




Flapp_Jackson

Re: Well if that's the case........
« Reply #12 on: December 23, 2022, 01:16:23 PM »
This is getting way off track from misgendering military members.

My original point was, if you are trying to be a gender other than the one you were classified as on your birth certificate, maybe a military environment isn't the best fit for your talents nor for the mission wherever you are assigned.  it would be tough to be deployed on a Navy vessel for 6+ months, bunking 3 to a rack and having to deal with grooming and whatever hormone treatments are involved. 

Nothing says you can't serve your country and military if you don't wear a military uniform.

I worked with several gay and lesbian civilians who were employed by SPAWAR (Space and Naval Warfare Systems Command).  In fact, nearly all of the people I have known in the Hawaii and San Diego SPAWAR offices were civilians.

I guess what i'm really saying is, "Why is this a problem for our military in the first place?"
The reasonable man adapts himself to the world;
the unreasonable one persists in trying to adapt the world to himself.
Therefore, all progress depends on the unreasonable man.
-- George Bernard Shaw

Flapp_Jackson

Re: Well if that's the case........
« Reply #13 on: December 23, 2022, 01:32:18 PM »
No.
Wanted to be,  but life happened.

i never aspired to fly, until I went on my orientation flight in a T-37.  I can't remember having so much fun trying to make myself sick!  My instructor pilot told me he wasn't allowed to to aerobatics to make me sick, but if I wanted, he would.  He did a maneuver while I lightly followed along with my hand on my joy stick (queue the peanut gallery!), then he'd let me do the stunt the way he showed me.  Barrel rolls, aileron rolls, quick dive from 5K ft to 3K ft, ....   :D

Only one guy in my Summer ROTC flight got sick -- a pilot candidate, of course!   :rofl:  At least he got to keep the mask he threw up in as a memento.     :thumbsup:

Later, about 5 years into my career, I got contacts after wearing glasses since about 4th grade.  It wasn't until I separated after almost 10 years and moved to Hawaii that I was able to get Lasik surgery.  If that technology had existed earlier, who knows?  With my eyesight when I was commissioned, pilot training was a no-go.

I've gotten to fly (as in take the controls and navigate) twice in high school and three times in college counting that one jet flight.  If I had the resources, I definitely would have pursued a private pilot's license.

My roommate in college became a pilot.  He came from a family with a father and step-father who were both colonels and pilots.

We play the hand we're dealt I guess.

BTW, I earned a Computer Science degree.  He was a Poly Sci major.   :geekdanc:
The reasonable man adapts himself to the world;
the unreasonable one persists in trying to adapt the world to himself.
Therefore, all progress depends on the unreasonable man.
-- George Bernard Shaw

groveler

Re: Well if that's the case........
« Reply #14 on: December 23, 2022, 03:59:56 PM »
i never aspired to fly, until I went on my orientation flight in a T-37.  I can't remember having so much fun trying to make myself sick!  My instructor pilot told me he wasn't allowed to to aerobatics to make me sick, but if I wanted, he would.  He did a maneuver while I lightly followed along with my hand on my joy stick (queue the peanut gallery!), then he'd let me do the stunt the way he showed me.  Barrel rolls, aileron rolls, quick dive from 5K ft to 3K ft, ....   :D

Only one guy in my Summer ROTC flight got sick -- a pilot candidate, of course!   :rofl:  At least he got to keep the mask he threw up in as a memento.     :thumbsup:

Later, about 5 years into my career, I got contacts after wearing glasses since about 4th grade.  It wasn't until I separated after almost 10 years and moved to Hawaii that I was able to get Lasik surgery.  If that technology had existed earlier, who knows?  With my eyesight when I was commissioned, pilot training was a no-go.

I've gotten to fly (as in take the controls and navigate) twice in high school and three times in college counting that one jet flight.  If I had the resources, I definitely would have pursued a private pilot's license.

My roommate in college became a pilot.  He came from a family with a father and step-father who were both colonels and pilots.

We play the hand we're dealt I guess.

BTW, I earned a Computer Science degree.  He was a Poly Sci major.   :geekdanc:
"BTW, I earned a Computer Science degree"
I guess you and I both know what a Turing Machine is.
Turing was a stark raving Fag.
Just get the mission done.
And keep your personal life out of it.
 :thumbsup:

ren

Re: Well if that's the case........
« Reply #15 on: December 23, 2022, 04:01:09 PM »
"BTW, I earned a Computer Science degree"
I guess you anti I both know what a Turing Machine is.
Turing was a stark raving Fag.
Just get the mission done.
And keep your personal life out of it.
 :thumbsup:
I raise your Turing machine with an explanation of FFT
Deeds Not Words

groveler

Re: Well if that's the case........
« Reply #16 on: December 23, 2022, 05:02:22 PM »
I raise your Turing machine with an explanation of FFT
:stopjack:
But people like me design systems so Mechanical types for example, can do FFTs
quickly,  Like AutoCad can do to see if their creation won't fail..
 :geekdanc:



robtmc

Re: Well if that's the case........
« Reply #17 on: December 23, 2022, 05:18:45 PM »
Ace in a day.
Actually, his skill with experimental aircraft was what put him so far above other pilots.
He and Bob Hoover were a breed probably never to be seen again with the current risk-averse military.

Flapp_Jackson

Re: Well if that's the case........
« Reply #18 on: December 23, 2022, 06:14:04 PM »
"BTW, I earned a Computer Science degree"
I guess you and I both know what a Turing Machine is.
Turing was a stark raving Fag.
Just get the mission done.
And keep your personal life out of it.
 :thumbsup:

The movie "The Imitation Game," is a pretty powerful accounting of the lengths to which the allies went to crack Nazi cyphers and to prevent them from knowing it had been cracked.

Very sad ending for the story's main hero.  Makes you wonder how many other outcasts societies never gave a chance to achieve greatness.

BTW, U-571 is one of my favorites, too.  Anything that gives accounts of how many sacrifices were made so others could take the ball and run with it is nothing short of a tribute.
The reasonable man adapts himself to the world;
the unreasonable one persists in trying to adapt the world to himself.
Therefore, all progress depends on the unreasonable man.
-- George Bernard Shaw