As I read the ordinance, businesses still have to post a sign to allow carry.  I don’t see an option for verbal permission without having a sign posted…?

Express consent can be verbal or written.

There are many forms of express consent.

Again, HPD testified its very difficult to enforce the default ban with no sign on the door.

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Express consent can be verbal or written.

There are many forms of express consent.

Again, HPD testified its very difficult to enforce.

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I don’t see that in the law.

“§41-_.4 Prohibition against the public carrying of firearms in a sensitive location — Prohibition against carrying a firearm on a private business establishment’s or charitable establishment’s premises without express consent.
(a) Prohibition.. Except as otherwise provided by federal or State law, it is a violation of this article for any person to intentionally, knowingly, or recklessly carry on their person a firearm, concealed or unconcealed, on the premises of:
(1) Any sensitive place; or
(2) Any business establishment or charitable establishment unless the business establishment or charitable establishment, or an agent thereof, had expressly consented thereto.  For purposes of this subsection, signage must be in accordance with the requirements specified in §41-_.5.

The way that reads to me is that for a business to “expressly consent,” they must use signage per §41-_.5.

As with any other law, we never really know until it gets tested in court.  Whether or not it’s difficult to enforce, seems to me if you carry into a business that doesn’t have a “guns allowed” sign, you’re rolling loaded dice.

I don’t see that in the law.

“§41-_.4 Prohibition against the public carrying of firearms in a sensitive location — Prohibition against carrying a firearm on a private business establishment’s or charitable establishment’s premises without express consent.
(a) Prohibition.. Except as otherwise provided by federal or State law, it is a violation of this article for any person to intentionally, knowingly, or recklessly carry on their person a firearm, concealed or unconcealed, on the premises of:
(1) Any sensitive place; or
(2) Any business establishment or charitable establishment unless the business establishment or charitable establishment, or an agent thereof, had expressly consented thereto.  For purposes of this subsection, signage must be in accordance with the requirements specified in §41-_.5.

The way that reads to me is that for a business to “expressly consent,” they must use signage per §41-_.5.

As with any other law, we never really know until it gets tested in court.  Whether or not it’s difficult to enforce, seems to me if you carry into a business that doesn’t have a “guns allowed” sign, you’re rolling loaded dice.

I and others involved read the bold as a total separate option of type of express consent.

In writting (email), video of verbal consent, or guns allowed sign is safer. As u can get a verbal (non video) and the person changes their mind or the emloyee no longer works there.

This is what hpd was referring to as a problem with enforcement. The default ban, how do we know they didnt get permission from someone else. A no guns allowed sign on the door is clear that theyre not allowed.

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I and others involved read the bold as a total separate option of type of express consent.

In writting (email), video of verbal consent, or guns allowed sign is safer. As u can get a verbal (non video) and the person changes their mind or the emloyee no longer works there.

This is what hpd was referring to as a problem with enforcement. The default ban, how do we know they didnt get permission from someone else. A no guns allowed sign on the door is clear that theyre not allowed.

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I can see reading it that way, too.  However, I would expect HPD to read it the same way I did, which could involve cuffs and a cell until it all gets worked out.  “The process IS the punishment.”

Like I said, never really know until it gets tested in court… which I hope never happens, as in, “concealed means concealed” and I hope nobody ever gets rolled up for this.

I can see reading it that way, too.  However, I would expect HPD to read it the same way I did, which could involve cuffs and a cell until it all gets worked out.  “The process IS the punishment.”

Like I said, never really know until it gets tested in court… which I hope never happens, as in, “concealed means concealed” and I hope nobody ever gets rolled up for this.

I watched every hearing and what i posted is what hpd thought in multiple hearings and their concern wasnt addressed.

But u are right, that someone unfortunatlly will have to be the test case.

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I can see reading it that way, too.  However, I would expect HPD to read it the same way I did, which could involve cuffs and a cell until it all gets worked out.  “The process IS the punishment.”

It is like the wife who sends her husband grocery shopping and tells him to buy 10 to 12 oranges and if the store has watermelon buy one. So he comes back with one orange and she asks him, how come you only bought 1 orange.  He says because the store had watermelon.

Got my notification on Friday.

How long did you wait?  and how was notification handled (call or mail)? 

156 CCW's issued per Civil Beat article. But some are to 1 person for multiple handguns.

CCW update:

When going to Vegas a few times out of the year, it's a PITA to take a dump.  But after CCWing for some time now, it's much easier to unstrap and restrap.  It's like at first when you do something, there's a learning curve and it takes long to do. But as you do it more, it's easier and you find easier ways to do it. Still inconvenient, but it is what it is.

Still no stores that I know of with a sign allowing carry. Basically a ban.  When are the court cases going to be filed?

Alii Coins and Currency in Kaneohe has a Guns Allowed sign posted.

Just got back from Vegas and what a feeling it is to enjoy freedom again as Vegas has generally no sensitive places law.  Lost my ass, so I use that I got to exercise my freedom as the price I paid for it.  But kind of hits differently since HI now has CCW.

Just  FYI, casino's do have "no guns signs", but they don't hold the weight of the law. The general senstive places NV does have are the federal level ones. Like schools, government buildings, airport buildings, etc...not retail stores or restaurants. But they do have  BAC level while CCWing, which I don't drink so not an issue.

Just got back from Vegas and what a feeling it is to enjoy freedom again as Vegas has generally no sensitive places law.  Lost my ass, so I use that I got to exercise my freedom as the price I paid for it.  But kind of hits differently since HI now has CCW.

Just  FYI, casino's do have "no guns signs", but they don't hold the weight of the law. The general senstive places NV does have are the federal level ones. Like schools, government buildings, airport buildings, etc...not retail stores or restaurants. But they do have  BAC level while CCWing, which I don't drink so not an issue.

There were a few guys from NJ in the class I was in last week and their infringements, including "lack of staffing", are horrendous.  They made the stories I conveyed about CCW in HI seem like minor infringements.  Where applications for their equivalent of a PITA can take months!  Depending on which county/area.   

There were a few guys from NJ in the class I was in last week and their infringements, including "lack of staffing", are horrendous.  They made the stories I conveyed about CCW in HI seem like minor infringements.  Where applications for their equivalent of a PITA can take months!  Depending on which county/area.   

This is why I had trouble figuring out which stats are worst than HI.  Each has their worst and even worst areas of laws.

Like CA issues CCW's and HI didn't. Even though LA county issued like only 6 at the time during that year.  HI was still 0.  CA has mag ban, but grandfathered in. HI has no grandfather clause. CA has featureless or register. HI all must be registered, but no featureless option.  And NJ and NY has similar worst or even worst laws.

I know a guy who's applied for San Diego CCW. Imagine covid HPD online registration, but for CCW's. That's how it is. Then once you get approved for an appointment and pass, you then have to take the class and then submit all docs online. So it's not like you can take the class and submit online during your scheduled RSVP time slot.  He got lucky though, instead of waiting a year, he got a cancelled slot and jumped right in.

With all the sensitive places crap that passed, ccw permit applications after 120 days are supposedly automatically denied. Are they going to notify applicants that they’ve been denied?

We were in Vegas and got to enjoy our freedom again. No sensitive places BS like how HI has.  Mrs. CMO purse carried as she's preggers.  She didn't realize how much more a pistol and spare mag add to the weight of the purse until we had to go to the airport and store the firearm in the case.  Mrs. CMO does have the enigma, but she prefers purse carry.

I did notice that my wedge was becoming more flat as the top of the pistol (striker plate area) was starting to print.  I solved this when I got back home by putting another tiny wedge under the main one.  I have the Phlster wedge kid.  With time, the wedges do flatten out.  In this case, it took about 5 months of EDCing to flatten.  So the lesson is to do gear checks periodically.

We were in Vegas and got to enjoy our freedom again. No sensitive places BS like how HI has.  Mrs. CMO purse carried as she's preggers.  She didn't realize how much more a pistol and spare mag add to the weight of the purse until we had to go to the airport and store the firearm in the case.  Mrs. CMO does have the enigma, but she prefers purse carry.

I did notice that my wedge was becoming more flat as the top of the pistol (striker plate area) was starting to print.  I solved this when I got back home by putting another tiny wedge under the main one.  I have the Phlster wedge kid.  With time, the wedges do flatten out.  In this case, it took about 5 months of EDCing to flatten.  So the lesson is to do gear checks periodically.

Congratulations 

When I was in Ohio (constitutional carry state) for pistol class, I carried all over.  Had some good discussions with folks in the class on "in vehicle" courses that they took.  Was pretty interesting.  When on the trip, I CCWed a new/er/ish pistol and didn't use a wedge.  Seemed fine.  No hot spots in carrying, or during the class. 

Congratulations 

When I was in Ohio (constitutional carry state) for pistol class, I carried all over.  Had some good discussions with folks in the class on "in vehicle" courses that they took.  Was pretty interesting.  When on the trip, I CCWed a new/er/ish pistol and didn't use a wedge.  Seemed fine.  No hot spots in carrying, or during the class.

Mrs. CMO took a vehicle CCW course at her A Girl and a Gun conference 2 years ago. She had lots of fun. Main thing is if there's a passenger, have the convo with them prior to, to keep back in the seat. IDK if they went over windshield ballistics.  As in shooting out of the windshield from inside the car.

A friend went to the ShivWorks vechicle class. Something she learned there if the badguy is in the seat next to you  was to unstrap the seatbelt and cross over to the bad guys side ASAP. The bad habit people have is staying in their seat trying to fight the invader.

Mrs. CMO took a vehicle CCW course at her A Girl and a Gun conference 2 years ago. She had lots of fun. Main thing is if there's a passenger, have the convo with them prior to, to keep back in the seat. IDK if they went over windshield ballistics.  As in shooting out of the windshield from inside the car.

A friend went to the ShivWorks vechicle class. Something she learned there if the badguy is in the seat next to you  was to unstrap the seatbelt and cross over to the bad guys side ASAP. The bad habit people have is staying in their seat trying to fight the invader.

I've done a couple vehicle ones.  The guys that I was chatting with said they had setups where a fresh front windshield was used to test/shoot.  Good stuff, but damn.  Didnt ask about the pricing for those classes.  Trust bu verify.   

Badguy?  Isn't that discrimination?  Haha.  I've seen videos of the "in car jiujistu", which are both  and :facepalm: worthy. 

I've done a couple vehicle ones.  The guys that I was chatting with said they had setups where a fresh front windshield was used to test/shoot.  Good stuff, but damn.  Didnt ask about the pricing for those classes.  Trust bu verify.   

Badguy?  Isn't that discrimination?  Haha.  I've seen videos of the "in car jiujistu", which are both  and :facepalm: worthy.

Badtheythem

Should we still apply for ccw in oahu?