Govt isn't the answer (Read 1452 times)

ren

Govt isn't the answer
« on: April 29, 2023, 08:52:23 AM »
When we have incompetence

https://www.hawaiinewsnow.com/2023/04/28/flabbergasted-state-agency-charges-with-protecting-hawaiis-resources-faces-600000-fine-pollution/

The state Department of Land and Natural Resources, a state agency tasked with protecting Hawaii’s natural resources, faces a $600,000 fine for pollution at the Heeia Kea Small Boat Harbor.

Between 2015 and 2020, the state Health Department said there were 62 instances where wastewater from the harbor exceeded limits for measures of bacteria levels.

The violations were partly due to the the harbor’s 32-year-old wastewater treatment system, which the DLNR and its Boating and Recreation Division has been trying to replace for years.

“It is a monumental breach on the part of the DLNR and DOBAR for allowing these conditions exist and for so long,” said environmental activist Carroll Cox.
Deeds Not Words

oldfart

Re: Govt isn't the answer
« Reply #1 on: April 29, 2023, 09:01:07 AM »
I just finished reading that story.
Soooo... one state agency fines another state agency about sewage.
That's like my right hand cutting the finger off my left hand.

The only thing that we (the public) get is the CRAP and the FINGER.!
What, Me Worry?

QUIETShooter

Re: Govt isn't the answer
« Reply #2 on: April 29, 2023, 09:04:23 AM »
I just finished reading that story.
Soooo... one state agency fines another state agency about sewage.
That's like my right hand cutting the finger off my left hand.

The only thing that we (the public) get is the CRAP and the FINGER.!

Yep, and the middle one at that.
Sometimes you gotta know when to save your bullets.

ren

Re: Govt isn't the answer
« Reply #3 on: April 29, 2023, 09:11:53 AM »
I just finished reading that story.
Soooo... one state agency fines another state agency about sewage.
That's like my right hand cutting the finger off my left hand.

The only thing that we (the public) get is the CRAP and the FINGER.!

We pay them for this. Complete waste of our tax monies.



meanwhile our City had this great idea....
https://www.hawaiinewsnow.com/2023/04/29/lack-trust-rules-keep-some-away-citys-mobile-homeless-camp-west-oahu/

A city effort to help homeless people is now up and running on Oahu’s westside, but a lack of trust and rules are keeping some away.

The HONU camp provides temporary housing, food, services, and other basic needs.

Staff at the camp set up at Nani Kai Beach Park in Maili say it can house around 35 people maximum capacity. On Friday, the number of people at the property sat around 25.
Deeds Not Words

oldfart

Re: Govt isn't the answer
« Reply #4 on: April 29, 2023, 09:34:11 AM »
RE: Homeless outreach camps

It sounds like a fine idea.
But many homeless people don't want to be restrained or follow rules.
This is not a new concept.
It's human nature.
What, Me Worry?

Flapp_Jackson

Re: Govt isn't the answer
« Reply #5 on: April 29, 2023, 10:25:39 AM »
An agency that gets funding from the public is fined over half a million dollars for not having the funding to repair a waste water treatment plant -- fined by another public funded agency.

#1 - Where does the fine collected go?  What's it spent on?  Or is it just added to the General fund and wasted along with all the other taxes and fees collected by the state/city/county?

#2 - Where is the logic in fining them that much money when they can't afford to fix it now?  Do they think taking funds will somehow increase the budget so the problem gets fixed?  Politicians and lawmakers don't care if Peter is robbing Paul.  The state then gets to keep the fine money rather than a contractor getting it to fix the problem.

#3 - Seems like there ought to be a law that requires the people/governing body appropriating the funds get fined, not the people sitting there with no money to fix the problem.
The reasonable man adapts himself to the world;
the unreasonable one persists in trying to adapt the world to himself.
Therefore, all progress depends on the unreasonable man.
-- George Bernard Shaw

groveler

Re: Govt isn't the answer
« Reply #6 on: April 29, 2023, 10:28:54 AM »
There are two subjects I'm pretty passionate about
guns and boats.
I had to sell my 45 foot sail boat because
Hawaii government is so fucked up..
I tried to start a boat pumpout business
to make sure people don't illegally
pump overboard.
county said NO we have funds for pump out stations.
I've been playing with boats for years and I know
nobody uses those, most don't work anyway.

Full disclosure; I am a journeyman shipwright, I professionally
built big sailboats (34 to 50 feet), Privately built them from scratch,
and re-built neglected ones. I know a lot about marinas and boats.
My dad insisted I learn a trade as well as get a university education.
 :love:

.

Flapp_Jackson

Re: Govt isn't the answer
« Reply #7 on: April 29, 2023, 10:47:41 AM »
There are two subjects I'm pretty passionate about
guns and boats.
I had to sell my 45 foot sail boat because
Hawaii government is so fucked up..
I tried to start a boat pumpout business
to make sure people don't illegally
pump overboard.
county said NO we have funds for pump out stations.
I've been playing with boats for years and I know
nobody uses those, most don't work anyway.

Full disclosure; I am a journeyman shipwright, I professionally
built big sailboats (34 to 50 feet), Privately built them from scratch,
and re-built neglected ones. I know a lot about marinas and boats.
My dad insisted I learn a trade as well as get a university education.
 :love:

.

Okay, but not sure what any of that has to do with the story.   :wacko:

Quote
As part of the proposed settlement, the state also will be required to install a
new wastewater treatment plant, which will likely cost several million dollars.

In 2018, the DLNR received $1 million to build a new plant but the bids submitted
exceeded that amount. Last year, state lawmakers gave the department $3 million
for a new plant. The procurement process is now underway.

“A new wastewater treatment plant has already been planned, and CIP funds
have been allocated, and yet they were still delays,” said Aduja.

In 2018 (reminder, that was 5 years ago), DLNR had been given $1M for a new plant, but bids exceeded that.  Last year (4 years later), lawmakers gave them $3M.

In the settlement that included the $600K fine, the state acknowledged the plant would cost "several million dollars."

I'm always confused by these kinds of stories.  If the DLNR got money in 2018, that had to be in response to a funding request.  I mean, lawmakers don't sit around telling DLNR when they need a new waste water plant and how much it'll cost.  It's DLNR's job to get bids for the job, and then go to the legislature to request funding.

Saying they got $1M, but bids came in higher, and the state already knows it'll cost several million just sounds like something suspicious is going on.  Did they spend the first million already on studies?  On stop gap fixes?  Is the $3M appropriated last year on top of the $1M already appropriated?

This is not incompetence.  This is gross negligence and failure to act.  I guarantee they know what they need to do, but they are content to ignore the problem while getting paid for ALL THOSE YEARS.

And why is the health department not able to do anything for over 5 years other than fine DLNR?  Why can't they go after the Governor?  Isn't he the responsible person in all this?  Money was given, and nothing was fixed.  Sounds like an Executive branch problem.  How long was Ige overseeing this problem while it got worse?

No accountability in government.  They created the system, so why would we expect them to hold themselves accountable?
The reasonable man adapts himself to the world;
the unreasonable one persists in trying to adapt the world to himself.
Therefore, all progress depends on the unreasonable man.
-- George Bernard Shaw

groveler

Re: Govt isn't the answer
« Reply #8 on: April 29, 2023, 03:12:29 PM »
Okay, but not sure what any of that has to do with the story.   :wacko:

In 2018 (reminder, that was 5 years ago), DLNR had been given $1M for a new plant, but bids exceeded that.  Last year (4 years later), lawmakers gave them $3M.

In the settlement that included the $600K fine, the state acknowledged the plant would cost "several million dollars."

I'm always confused by these kinds of stories.  If the DLNR got money in 2018, that had to be in response to a funding request.  I mean, lawmakers don't sit around telling DLNR when they need a new waste water plant and how much it'll cost.  It's DLNR's job to get bids for the job, and then go to the legislature to request funding.

Saying they got $1M, but bids came in higher, and the state already knows it'll cost several million just sounds like something suspicious is going on.  Did they spend the first million already on studies?  On stop gap fixes?  Is the $3M appropriated last year on top of the $1M already appropriated?

This is not incompetence.  This is gross negligence and failure to act.  I guarantee they know what they need to do, but they are content to ignore the problem while getting paid for ALL THOSE YEARS.

And why is the health department not able to do anything for over 5 years other than fine DLNR?  Why can't they go after the Governor?  Isn't he the responsible person in all this?  Money was given, and nothing was fixed.  Sounds like an Executive branch problem.  How long was Ige overseeing this problem while it got worse?

No accountability in government.  They created the system, so why would we expect them to hold themselves accountable?
My point that,  I obviously made poorly.
is Hawaii SUX at anything about personal watercraft.
Just like they screw up guns,
 :geekdanc:

ren

Re: Govt isn't the answer
« Reply #9 on: April 29, 2023, 03:34:30 PM »
There are two subjects I'm pretty passionate about
guns and boats.
I had to sell my 45 foot sail boat because
Hawaii government is so fucked up..
I tried to start a boat pumpout business
to make sure people don't illegally
pump overboard.
county said NO we have funds for pump out stations.
I've been playing with boats for years and I know
nobody uses those, most don't work anyway.

Full disclosure; I am a journeyman shipwright, I professionally
built big sailboats (34 to 50 feet), Privately built them from scratch,
and re-built neglected ones. I know a lot about marinas and boats.
My dad insisted I learn a trade as well as get a university education.
 :love:

.

Deeds Not Words

aletheuo137

Re: Govt isn't the answer
« Reply #10 on: April 30, 2023, 06:53:50 AM »
I just finished reading that story.
Soooo... one state agency fines another state agency about sewage.
That's like my right hand cutting the finger off my left hand.

The only thing that we (the public) get is the CRAP and the FINGER.!
Or ... Cutting your nose off despite your face!

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