Has Pennsylvania Come Up With the Dumbest Gun Law Yet?

Pennsylvania has introduced HB 586 which requires ammo manufacturers to SERIALIZE every single round of ammo sold in the state -- and in multiple locations: the base of the cartridge and INSIDE the cartridge.  If you possess any unserialized ammo, you have until 1/1/2024 to dispose of it.

 

With the advent of laser marking it would actually be quite doable from a logistics standpoint.

I wouldn't say this was the dumbest gun law, I could see this potentially helping solve crimes.

Pennsylvania is not exactly known for their astute decision making skills

Pennsylvania does have a centuries-old reputation for producing fine rifles AND marksmen.
This is an insulting slap in the face to the men of Pennsylvania who fought for our country from the Revolutionary war to present day.

With the advent of laser marking it would actually be quite doable from a logistics standpoint.

I wouldn't say this was the dumbest gun law, I could see this potentially helping solve crimes.

Did you watch the video or research the bill?

The bill also mandates a DATABASE to track who bought what ammo serial numbers, and a TAX of 5 cents per round to pay for the database and its administration.

A 50 round box of ammo would have another $2.50 tacked on for this lunacy.  A half case would add $25.00.  A 1K round case adds a $50 tax.

That doesn't include the amount the ammo makers will have to spend for their production line investment and management of inventory by serial numbers.

Most ammo makers would likely pull out of PA altogether.  How's that price then when the supply shrinks?

And since crimes are rarely solved using firearm serial numbers, it's doubtful ammo serial numbers will be any better.  just like with micro-stamped serial numbers, all someone needs to do is either use a brass catcher, police their brass, fire from inside a car so the brass stays inside (think drive-by), or toss a bunch of brass from the range you picked up so the cops have a hundred people to investigate.  The shooter can claim his brass must have been scooped up from the range with all the others they found.

As with guns, the buyer can always say he sold it or it was stolen.  There's no tracking of private ammo sales, although with this stupid bill, they probably will require you go through an FFL for private ammo sales so the database can be updated.

I don't believe you thought this through any further than typing your opinion.

With the advent of laser marking it would actually be quite doable from a logistics standpoint.

I wouldn't say this was the dumbest gun law, I could see this potentially helping solve crimes.

Btw, have you ever seen videos of the operations inside an ammo factory?  If you engraved the numbers twice on each case during its creation step (not sure doing the inside is even possible), the cases are then dumped into bins before being sent to the next prep steps.  Once loaded to produce a cartridge, it's then jumbled again in bins and sorters for boxing. 

Given the processes, I don't see how the manufacturer can control which cases with which serial numbers will wind up in which boxes without an OCR scanning each number as it's boxed and adding a serial number to the box to then join every round's serial plus the box's serial together in a database.

Unless you think the retailer will be doing that -- dumping a few hundred rounds of ammo on the counter and recording each serial number that you purchased while you and everyone behind you waits.

Think, McFly!  Not much room to work with on .22, 9mm or .380 rounds, huh?  How will this requirement even work on such small pieces? 

Cases are not cut from a sheet of metal.  A tiny disc of the metal is punched several times down the center to hollow it out and elongate the outside.  So, no matter what stage, inside etching will have to be done by something reaching inside to work.  I don't think actual metal stamping works, because it'll risk deforming the case -- kind of how those big stamping machines they use to stamp out dog tags deform the metal.  Plus, any changes to the size or shape of any part of the cartridge is a potential production flaw that might introduce problems with accuracy, safety or reliability.  How long before people report that the exterior markings are causing failures to feed?  How about split cases not ejecting because the case was weakened by cutting numbers into the inside?

I seriously have to ask: how long do these serial numbers have to be when one manufacturer is making millions of rounds a year -- or every month month!

If you use the 10 integers plus our 26 letters, you can create 708,930,508 unique combinations using 9 characters.  If you can squeeze in a 10-character serial number on the base and inside, you can have 3,190,187,286 unique serial numbers.

What do you think would be the most number of characters that can be legibly etched on a cartridge's base? 6 maybe? More if you can follow the curvature of the base?  Again, think about how much room there is to mark a .22 round.

And how is reloaded ammo supposed to be tracked?  If I buy once-used brass or remanufactured ammo, how do you remove those numbers from the original buyer and move them over to my name?

With the advent of laser marking it would actually be quite doable from a logistics standpoint.

I wouldn't say this was the dumbest gun law, I could see this potentially helping solve crimes.

This is dumb. Give us an example of how this is feasible.
You can drive with your feet but why?

next year they are requiring revolvers to automatically eject brass, and also criminals must turn in their spent brass to the police department. violators will get a stern talking to.

the sheer logistics makes the law a dystopian fantasy

I hope they pass the law such that all the ammo manufacturers boycott the entire state.
Including police and military bases.

Wait till later and they go Judge Dredd Lawmaker style. DNA encoded heads and brass.

the sheer logistics makes the law a dystopian fantasy

I hope they pass the law such that all the ammo manufacturers boycott the entire state.
Including police and military bases.

As I said in my detailed rants  , i agree on the lack of logistical viability.

I also see this as unenforceable.  If someone has "illegal, unmarked ammo" in their carry pistol, what is a cop going to do to find out? 

"Sir, thank you for identifying yourself as a concealed firearm carrier.  I need you to exit the vehicle and slowly draw your weapon,  Hand it to me so I can unload it and inspect the ammo.  The new law gives me the power to search you for unmarked cartridges without the need for any reasonable suspicion."

I think not.

Then there's the non-residents.  Are they forced to stop at the first ammo retailer they cross and buy marked ammo?  Is the ammo in their carry firearm going to land them in jail?

We need a stronger word than "dumb" or "stupid."

Detailed processes for making CCI .22LR ammo.

Reading through the bill, it only applies to encoded ammunition sold within the state by a retailer.  Doesn't cover reloading components or ammo sold privately.

Since there's no law against transporting or selling ammunition across state lines or to out-of-state buyers, I can foresee people (1) hauling ammo to sell as a private individual into the state, (2) buyers from PA driving out of state to buy ammo from private sellers, and (3) a huge uptick in hobbyists learning to load their own.

BTW, there is n mention in the bill as to any intentions related to solving crimes.  The majority of it is dedicated toward detailing the taxes they want to collect and the filing requirements for retailers.

Such an obvious infringement of the 2A with no stated benefit other than collecting a tax to support a new data gathering function within state government.

let's put a ** digit serial number on a small .22 cartridge and have it readable by an electron microscope powered by the Hadron collider.

With the advent of laser marking it would actually be quite doable from a logistics standpoint.

I wouldn't say this was the dumbest gun law, I could see this potentially helping solve crimes.

  yeah rite, maybe in your fantasy world!

All this money and resources poured into a really stupid idea.

Meanwhile mental health in our nation continues to be put on the backburner.  "They" know.  They know that if you address mental health problems, crimes, including gun violence, will go down.

That's something they don't want to happen while trying to confiscate firearms from law abiding citizens.

This is not a dumb idea. This is a brilliant idea. If your purpose is to remove everyone’s ability to acquire ammunition.  “If we can’t ban it, make it impossible to obtain without outright banning it.” 

Seems the MO of these anti-gun politicians lately is pass any and all nonsense laws, then make us pro gun people spend tons and tons of money fighting them in court. Our side does have the Constitution on our side but how much can we afford?  War of  attrition. They have the upper hand.

More and more people, especially the lack of critical thinking young ones, are buying into this total ban of guns, not realizing that if this becomes a reality, only the criminals (who the fuck believes they follow the rule of law? ) and the government will have guns.

Think mass shootings or gun violence will end?  Think again.  Think turkey shoot.  Think shooting fish in a barrel.  Only worse.  In a shooting your life can end in micro-seconds.  The cops are minutes away.  If you're lucky.

Think government is incapable of conducting mass shootings?  WW2.  Nazi Germany.  Round them up and let them have it......

This is not a dumb idea. This is a brilliant idea. If your purpose is to remove everyone’s ability to acquire ammunition.  “If we can’t ban it, make it impossible to obtain without outright banning it.” 

Seems the MO of these anti-gun politicians lately is pass any and all nonsense laws, then make us pro gun people spend tons and tons of money fighting them in court. Our side does have the Constitution on our side but how much can we afford?  War of  attrition. They have the upper hand.

This.

Sent from my SM-G991U using Tapatalk