Video demonstration of bullets being deflected by the ground.

Example of a bullet being deflected back. Doesn't have the energy to hurt someone, but could be enough to lob over a berm and smack someone.  Just has to be deflected a few times at the right angle.

https://youtube.com/shorts/ObZQz0sycQY

Video demonstration of bullets being deflected by the ground.

So you're statement about hitting a 2nd thing then deflecting would be accurate as the ground is the first thing. The bullet would have to hit 10 feet (assume the head is in full shape) in front the person and not be a frag from steel, then skip toward the backstop mountain (remain intact) and still have enough energy to cause bleeding and a slap to the back of the head.

Or like my situation, someone shooting at the mountain and the fragment hit my cheek and caused no damage.

Example of a bullet being deflected back. Doesn't have the energy to hurt someone, but could be enough to lob over a berm and smack someone.  Just has to be deflected a few times at the right angle.

https://youtube.com/shorts/ObZQz0sycQY

If KHSC required all tracers, we may have been able to see where it came from.  And a side benefit is no need cut the long grass as it would catch fire and burn itself away.

So you're statement about hitting a 2nd thing then deflecting would be accurate as the ground is the first thing. The bullet would have to hit 10 feet (assume the head is in full shape) in front the person and not be a frag from steel, then skip toward the backstop mountain (remain intact) and still have enough energy to cause bleeding and a slap to the back of the head.

Or like my situation, someone shooting at the mountain and the fragment hit my cheek and caused no damage.

That was the example of like shooting a rifle at the 50 yard line with no intermediate backstop.  Bullets hit the dirt and go over the 100 yard backstop.

An example of why you have to be careful about steel placement, manufacturer directions, and shooting angles.

Pellet came back because the steel was too close and shooter was at an elevated position.  This increased the angle of the plate causing pellets to be deflected behind the stand instead of safely Infront of it.  Pellet probably deflected off the plate, deflected off the stand, deflected off the stand legs, and back to the shooter.

https://youtube.com/shorts/yTzzY2VfMxE?feature=share

Based on these nuggets of information and analysis, I suggest shutting down the action bays. They are too dangerous.

So you're statement about hitting a 2nd thing then deflecting would be accurate as the ground is the first thing. The bullet would have to hit 10 feet (assume the head is in full shape) in front the person and not be a frag from steel, then skip toward the backstop mountain (remain intact) and still have enough energy to cause bleeding and a slap to the back of the head.

Or like my situation, someone shooting at the mountain and the fragment hit my cheek and caused no damage.

Apparenlty, according to some, it could happen. . .

Yeah, many of us have seen projectiles get "lobbed" up in the air and hit someone.  Kind of like getting hit from debris from aerials on NYE.  But what at least one group claimed, and frankly accused vehemently, was way more energy than that. . .

That said, issue of frag, splash, richochets are definitely real.  My point was so much exaggeration, often not based on physics. . .

What made it worst is before anyone was made aware of what happened, had about 4 guys come over and began taking pics and video.  Like dude, be cool, you know there's people looking to shut the range down.  Your guy was fine, no ER or doctor visit needed.  Stuff happens often at a gun range.

What they should have done is approach the person in charge 1st and explain what happened.  And do the same to the rifle/pistol side, but I guess that's too far of a walk. It could be possible someone had a ND and a bullet (probably 22LR) was shot toward the bays from the rifle/pistol side and skipped or caused a ricochet.

IDK which way the person was facing when the impact occurred.

If I'm shooting at 50 yards can I still use my old target frame?

If I'm shooting at 50 yards can I still use my old target frame?

Nope, all target frames need to meet the new requirement.

when I shot at the silhouette side, sometimes when I would miss the steel target (that's hardly ever  ), I could see the projectile skip off the ground a couple times until it hit the back berm.  this is only with 45acp.  idk if that's bc its going so slow i can see it or bc it's going so slow it skips
also shooting that side I remember a few times I could hear ricochets from the rifle side as I would be resetting the steel targets.  sounded like it hit something at the 50 yd line and then I hear the "wizzing" sound .  but sounded like it stayed on the rifle side

Is it still no steel targets? What if I have the little automatic resetting ones for 22?

no steel targets still, probably forever

So just to reconfirm all the information in this thread:

(1) Kokohead now requires rifle frames that are 5 feet to the center of the lowest target. With the 4 inch recess into the ground this means legs should be at least 5 feet 4 inches to the center of the lowest target
(2) This applies for rifle targets at both the 50 yards and 100 yards.
(3) The 14" base size of the original rifle mounting poles are still the same, so build frames accordingly.

Did I miss anything or get anything wrong? Also, did anything change for the pistol side?

So just to reconfirm all the information in this thread:

(1) Kokohead now requires rifle frames that are 5 feet to the center of the lowest target. With the 4 inch recess into the ground; this means legs should be at least 5 feet 4 inches to the center of the lowest target
(2) This applies for rifle targets at both the 50 yards and 100 yards.
(3) The 14" base size of the original rifle mounting poles are still the same, so build frames accordingly.

Did I miss anything or get anything wrong? Also, did anything change for the pistol side?

....
I  went pistol side on Sunday.  I would make a reservation if you go in the morning. Afternoon was only half full so I just walked in with no reservation. Previously, they were spacing people out due to covid. They stopped that now, so that means plenty open lanes again. Target frames are same. If you haven't shot since last year, don't be surprised if your skill level sucks. My aging muscle memory got dementia.