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Khon's take on expandable batons (Read 4760 times)

ren

Khon's take on expandable batons
« on: May 25, 2023, 06:53:04 AM »
https://www.khon2.com/hawaii-crime/title-courts-rule-another-deadly-weapon-can-be-carried-in-public/

“The Department is aware of the settlement and will be notifying officers of the change.  While possession is no longer illegal, its use to commit a crime remains a felony.”

Honolulu City Council member Tyler Dos Santos-Tam represents Downtown and Chinatown.

“To give people more tools, they can use for nefarious reasons is a big concern,” Dos Santos-Tam said.

“Our businesses struggle with vandalism, and a lot of residents don’t feel safe walking around already. And imagine anybody being able to carry a billy club. I don’t think that makes people feel any safer,” added Dos Santos-Tam.

Kapalama area resident Angela Melody Young said she is not a fan of policies becoming looser.

“I think that enables people to carry weapons and cause destruction and harm to the community,” she added.  “I do not feel safe.”


No mention of another tool for LAW-ABIDING citizens. Lawmakers especially Tam focus on automatically labeling people who carry them as criminals.
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Deeds Not Words

RSN172

Re: Khon's take on expandable batons
« Reply #1 on: May 25, 2023, 08:26:51 AM »
Those dumb fucks can't see that you are not giving people an additional tool for nefarious purposes.   Criminals already were carrying them and more.  What the change is doing is allowing law abiding citizens to legally carry an additional tool to defend themselves.   Although I have had a 21 and 26 inch baton for years, they are too heavy to carry around and hard to conceal.  I must admit a baton and a knife would be a formidable defense against a knife only wielding attacker and knives are the most commonly used weapon.
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Happily living in Puna

changemyoil66

Re: Khon's take on expandable batons
« Reply #2 on: May 25, 2023, 08:37:42 AM »
Cuck Tam proposed and championed for sensitive places bill. Treating legal ccw holders like felons. So his statement on batons is the same.

Sent from my SM-G991U using Tapatalk

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QUIETShooter

Re: Khon's take on expandable batons
« Reply #3 on: May 25, 2023, 08:41:33 AM »
Been hearing a lot of this Dos-Santos Tam guy lately.  Who da hell is he?  The new up and coming Demorat stool pidgeon?

I love his statement:  "To give people more tools, to use for nefarious reasons is a big concern"

Already labeling law abiding people as criminals.  What a puke.
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Sometimes you gotta know when to save your bullets.

Rocky

Re: Khon's take on expandable batons
« Reply #4 on: May 25, 2023, 08:59:24 AM »
I believe this is a great option for those unable, unwilling or not proficient enough to carry a firearm.  :thumbsup:
On the other hand, carrying a firearm and a baton now raises the question of level of defense.
"You had a baton but you used your firearm. Did you think using lethal force before using nonlethal force was necessary ?"  :wacko:
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“I ask you to judge me by the enemies I have made.”
                                                           Franklin D. Roosevelt

Flapp_Jackson

Re: Khon's take on expandable batons
« Reply #5 on: May 25, 2023, 09:31:23 AM »
Quote from: Rocky on May 25, 2023, 08:59:24 AM
I believe this is a great option for those unable, unwilling or not proficient enough to carry a firearm.  :thumbsup:
On the other hand, carrying a firearm and a baton now raises the question of level of defense.
"You had a baton but you used your firearm. Did you think using lethal force before using nonlethal force was necessary ?"  :wacko:

You're not looking at the bigger picture.

Cop:  "Why did you feel the need to shoot?"

Me;  "He was threatening me with that baton in his hand."

 :thumbsup: :geekdanc:
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The reasonable man adapts himself to the world;
the unreasonable one persists in trying to adapt the world to himself.
Therefore, all progress depends on the unreasonable man.
-- George Bernard Shaw

Rocky

Re: Khon's take on expandable batons
« Reply #6 on: May 25, 2023, 09:42:32 AM »
Quote from: Flapp_Jackson on May 25, 2023, 09:31:23 AM
You're not looking at the bigger picture.

Cop:  "Why did you feel the need to shoot?"

Me;  "He was threatening me with that baton in his hand."

 :thumbsup: :geekdanc:

My "picture" was "carrying a firearm and a baton"  and the premises of increasing standards of use of force
My  picture  "carrying a firearm and a baton"  in your scenario "He was threatening me with that baton in his hand.", baton vs baton would be appropriate (excluding other factors i.e. disparity of force or attacker 's baton larger aka "Baton Envy" :rofl:)
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“I ask you to judge me by the enemies I have made.”
                                                           Franklin D. Roosevelt

Flapp_Jackson

Re: Khon's take on expandable batons
« Reply #7 on: May 25, 2023, 09:51:36 AM »
Quote from: Rocky on May 25, 2023, 09:42:32 AM
My "picture" was "carrying a firearm and a baton"  and the premises of increasing standards of use of force
My  picture  "carrying a firearm and a baton"  in your scenario "He was threatening me with that baton in his hand.", baton vs baton would be appropriate (excluding other factors i.e. disparity of force or attacker 's baton larger aka "Baton Envy" :rofl:)

Swoosh?

According to the Cops, a baton is just as dangerous as a gun -- hence the previous law banning them.

In my scenario, there would be only one baton: the one I was nice enough to provide when my attacker apparently forgot his at home.

Not anyone else's fault if he meant to bring a baton to a gunfight.

 :wave:
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The reasonable man adapts himself to the world;
the unreasonable one persists in trying to adapt the world to himself.
Therefore, all progress depends on the unreasonable man.
-- George Bernard Shaw

oldfart

Re: Khon's take on expandable batons
« Reply #8 on: May 25, 2023, 11:23:03 AM »
Pretty soon it will be illegal to walk with a cane.
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What, Me Worry?

zippz

Re: Khon's take on expandable batons
« Reply #9 on: May 25, 2023, 11:50:12 AM »
Tam was the one who said the homeless cause a lot of crime issues in his district, so homeless need to be spread out on the island. 

Not stop crime, just spread it out more.

Biggest issue with the article is it says batons are deadly and dangerous.  The point of the settlement, that is in the order, is they are not deadly or dangerous.

Batons are used defensively for blocking and pain compliance, not deadly force.  You see that when police and national guard use it.  They can be deadly if used incorrectly, just as much as a baseball bat or tree trunk.
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ren

Re: Khon's take on expandable batons
« Reply #10 on: May 25, 2023, 11:59:48 AM »
Quote from: QUIETShooter on May 25, 2023, 08:41:33 AM
Been hearing a lot of this Dos-Santos Tam guy lately.  Who da hell is he?  The new up and coming Demorat stool pidgeon?

I love his statement:  "To give people more tools, to use for nefarious reasons is a big concern"

Already labeling law abiding people as criminals.  What a puke.

No private experience. Union rep and Dem. Blue as a Smurf.
https://www.linkedin.com/in/tylerdst

Career politician in search of handouts for himself: https://www.staradvertiser.com/2023/05/23/hawaii-news/dos-santos-tam-to-visit-swiss-rail-amid-criticism/
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Deeds Not Words

hvybarrels

Re: Khon's take on expandable batons
« Reply #11 on: May 25, 2023, 12:01:35 PM »
Quote from: zippz on May 25, 2023, 11:50:12 AM
Tam was the one who said the homeless cause a lot of crime issues in his district, so homeless need to be spread out on the island. 

Not stop crime, just spread it out more.

Biggest issue with the article is it says batons are deadly and dangerous.  The point of the settlement, that is in the order, is they are not deadly or dangerous.

Batons are used defensively for blocking and pain compliance, not deadly force.  You see that when police and national guard use it.  They can be deadly if used incorrectly, just as much as a baseball bat or tree trunk.

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Sharing is caring, but forced redistribution is communism.

changemyoil66

Re: Khon's take on expandable batons
« Reply #12 on: May 25, 2023, 12:46:46 PM »
Quote from: QUIETShooter on May 25, 2023, 08:41:33 AM
Been hearing a lot of this Dos-Santos Tam guy lately.  Who da hell is he?  The new up and coming Demorat stool pidgeon?

I love his statement:  "To give people more tools, to use for nefarious reasons is a big concern"

Already labeling law abiding people as criminals.  What a puke.
Hes the newly elected to city counsel. Chinatown, downtown, kakaako, nuuanu, kalihi.

And he got head chair for a committee. He introduced bill 57, sensitive places. How does a noob get that? Hes being groomed for a career in politics, like Elefante.

Hifico met with him to discuss the legal issues with bill 57. Various scotus rulings info was given (mcdonald, heller, bruen). He ignored them all.

He also has a bill requiring bars/clubs to carry Narcan.

He loves to enable criminals. Like sensitive places protects only criminals from getting shot by their victims.

Sent from my SM-G991U using Tapatalk
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changemyoil66

Re: Khon's take on expandable batons
« Reply #13 on: May 25, 2023, 12:47:52 PM »
Quote from: Rocky on May 25, 2023, 09:42:32 AM
My "picture" was "carrying a firearm and a baton"  and the premises of increasing standards of use of force
My  picture  "carrying a firearm and a baton"  in your scenario "He was threatening me with that baton in his hand.", baton vs baton would be appropriate (excluding other factors i.e. disparity of force or attacker 's baton larger aka "Baton Envy" :rofl:)
They tried to pass something similar. Someone whos ccwing has to also carry a taser, for less lethal options of force.

Sent from my SM-G991U using Tapatalk

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changemyoil66

Re: Khon's take on expandable batons
« Reply #14 on: May 25, 2023, 12:48:27 PM »
Quote from: Flapp_Jackson on May 25, 2023, 09:51:36 AM
Swoosh?

According to the Cops, a baton is just as dangerous as a gun -- hence the previous law banning them.

In my scenario, there would be only one baton: the one I was nice enough to provide when my attacker apparently forgot his at home.

Not anyone else's fault if he meant to bring a baton to a gunfight.

 :wave:
Nice how the AG agreed a baton isnt a dangerous or deadly weapon.

Sent from my SM-G991U using Tapatalk

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mrgaf

Re: Khon's take on expandable batons
« Reply #15 on: May 26, 2023, 02:02:59 PM »
I really don’t give a flying fuck what these politicians, snowflakes, fag bag liberal scum say or think. They are dangerous criminals who need to just disappear or F.O.A.D. Pigs can’t protect you and are too fucking stupid to know any better. If you get attacked, house broken into or invaded and you use a big friggin dildo to beat the perp to death (which is not a bad thing) with YOU are going to prison. Cops are not your friends, politicos are not your friends and liberals are the scum of the earth.
Yup….I’m pissed!  >:D :grrr:
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To argue with a person who has renounced the use of reason is like administering medicine to the dead.  Thomas Paine.

No man can get rich in politics unless he is a crook.  It cannot be done. Harry Truman

Only good liberal is one taking a dirt nap.

Flapp_Jackson

Re: Khon's take on expandable batons
« Reply #16 on: May 26, 2023, 02:07:49 PM »
Quote from: mrgaf on May 26, 2023, 02:02:59 PM
I really don’t give a flying fuck what these politicians, snowflakes, fag bag liberal scum say or think. They are dangerous criminals who need to just disappear or F.O.A.D. Pigs can’t protect you and are too fucking stupid to know any better. If you get attacked, house broken into or invaded and you use a big friggin dildo to beat the perp to death (which is not a bad thing) with YOU are going to prison. Cops are not your friends, politicos are not your friends and liberals are the scum of the earth.
Yup….I’m pissed!  >:D :grrr:

You must have looked up how much one of those better-quality batons will run you.

 :shake:   :rofl:
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The reasonable man adapts himself to the world;
the unreasonable one persists in trying to adapt the world to himself.
Therefore, all progress depends on the unreasonable man.
-- George Bernard Shaw

mrgaf

Re: Khon's take on expandable batons
« Reply #17 on: May 26, 2023, 03:41:07 PM »
Quote from: Flapp_Jackson on May 26, 2023, 02:07:49 PM
You must have looked up how much one of those better-quality batons will run you.

 :shake:   :rofl:

 :rofl:  :rofl: Nah…. Don’t need no baton…a good tuna bat backed up by a compact 45 will more than suffice :D
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To argue with a person who has renounced the use of reason is like administering medicine to the dead.  Thomas Paine.

No man can get rich in politics unless he is a crook.  It cannot be done. Harry Truman

Only good liberal is one taking a dirt nap.

Flapp_Jackson

Re: Khon's take on expandable batons
« Reply #18 on: May 26, 2023, 04:37:00 PM »
I played the snare drum and xylophone in marching band. 

I just don't get what's so scary about batons.


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The reasonable man adapts himself to the world;
the unreasonable one persists in trying to adapt the world to himself.
Therefore, all progress depends on the unreasonable man.
-- George Bernard Shaw

groveler

Re: Khon's take on expandable batons
« Reply #19 on: May 27, 2023, 11:56:49 AM »
Quote from: mrgaf on May 26, 2023, 02:02:59 PM
I really don’t give a flying fuck what these politicians, snowflakes, fag bag liberal scum say or think. They are dangerous criminals who need to just disappear or F.O.A.D. Pigs can’t protect you and are too fucking stupid to know any better. If you get attacked, house broken into or invaded and you use a big friggin dildo to beat the perp to death (which is not a bad thing) with YOU are going to prison. Cops are not your friends, politicos are not your friends and liberals are the scum of the earth.
Yup….I’m pissed!  >:D :grrr:
That makes two of us!
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