Trading a pistol from the mainland questions (Read 2764 times)

Pancakes

Trading a pistol from the mainland questions
« on: June 13, 2023, 09:20:19 PM »
Hey, my buddy and I want to trade pistols. He is on the mainland, but comes to Hawaii for work a lot. My gun is registered, and I’m wondering how and if I could do this legally and what all would be involved if anyone has done something like this before?
Basically his gun was acquired on the mainland, and I’m wondering if I did trade it would I be able to register it and explain I made a trade for it? I would want it registered because I would consider carrying it and doing my CCL with it?

zippz

Re: Trading a pistol from the mainland questions
« Reply #1 on: June 13, 2023, 09:58:01 PM »
Would have to go through a FFL and might not be worth the effort.

Your gun:
Mail it to a FFL in your friends state.  Coordinate with that FFL before doing so.  Sometimes they don't accept mailed firearms from non-FFLs.
Friend does the 4473 and background check (along with anything else required by the State) and picks up the gun at the FFL
Notify the police department that you no longer own the firearm and it went out of state.

Friends gun:
He could mail the gun to an FFL like above, and you do the permit to acquire process to pick it up.
Or he could bring it to Hawaii and transfer it via FFL here.  FFL will have to register the gun and you'd do the permit to acquire process.  I'm not sure if your friend would have to register the gun first.

Flapp_Jackson

Re: Trading a pistol from the mainland questions
« Reply #2 on: June 13, 2023, 10:00:50 PM »
Hey, my buddy and I want to trade pistols. He is on the mainland, but comes to Hawaii for work a lot. My gun is registered, and I’m wondering how and if I could do this legally and what all would be involved if anyone has done something like this before?
Basically his gun was acquired on the mainland, and I’m wondering if I did trade it would I be able to register it and explain I made a trade for it? I would want it registered because I would consider carrying it and doing my CCL with it?

If you and your friend are not legal residents of the same state, then the trade needs to be handled through FFLs.

Each will ship his gun to the other's FFL.  If the FFLs can provide shipping labels, then you won't need to use an additional FFL to ship the guns -- just take the guns to the shipper/s office with the labels.  As long as an FFL set up the shipping label, it should be fine.

The receiving FFLs will hold the handguns until each of you satisfies your local state's laws.  For HI, that means getting a permit to acquire.

Once you ship your firearm to your friend, HPD requires you to notify them it has permanently left the state.  You should do that within a day of two of shipping it.  It's $100 fine if you don't notify them soon enough.

Some here will tell you not to bother with permits and registration, but that's not sound legal advice. 

Technically, you or your friend could fly to one or the other's state and swap guns in person.  You can then register his (now yours) handgun as an out-of-state firearm without the need for a permit to acquire.  That saves the shipping and FFL costs plus your 2-week wait, which might not be much benefit if you have to buy a plane ticket outside of business travel.

While that is feasible, it's violating federal gun laws that regulate interstate firearm transfers.  It's up to the parties involved to decide what they want to do.

Quote
May I lawfully transfer a firearm to an individual who resides in a different state?
What if the individual resides within the same state?


Under federal law, an unlicensed individual is prohibited from transferring a firearm
to an individual who does not reside in the same state as the transferee. Generally,
for a person to lawfully transfer a firearm to an unlicensed person who resides out
of state, the firearm must be shipped to an FFL within the recipient’s state of residence.
He or she may then receive the firearm from the FFL upon completion of an ATF
Form 4473 and a NICS background check.

More information can be obtained on the ATF website.

The GCA provides an exception from this prohibition for temporary loans or rentals of
firearms for lawful sporting purposes. For example, a friend visiting you may borrow a
firearm to go hunting. Another exception is provided for transfers of firearms to
nonresidents to carry out a lawful bequest or acquisition by interstate succession.
This exception would authorize the transfer of a firearm to a nonresident who inherits
a firearm under a will or by state law upon death of the owner.

However, there may be state or local laws or regulations that govern this type of
transaction. Check the Handgun Purchase & Possession table on your state page.

[18 U.S.C. §922(a)(5)(A)].
https://www.usconcealedcarry.com/resources/federal-ccw-law/federal-private-firearm-transfer-laws/
The reasonable man adapts himself to the world;
the unreasonable one persists in trying to adapt the world to himself.
Therefore, all progress depends on the unreasonable man.
-- George Bernard Shaw

groveler

Re: Trading a pistol from the mainland questions
« Reply #3 on: June 13, 2023, 11:14:36 PM »
If you and your friend are not legal residents of the same state, then the trade needs to be handled through FFLs.

Each will ship his gun to the other's FFL.  If the FFLs can provide shipping labels, then you won't need to use an additional FFL to ship the guns -- just take the guns to the shipper/s office with the labels.  As long as an FFL set up the shipping label, it should be fine.

The receiving FFLs will hold the handguns until each of you satisfies your local state's laws.  For HI, that means getting a permit to acquire.

Once you ship your firearm to your friend, HPD requires you to notify them it has permanently left the state.  You should do that within a day of two of shipping it.  It's $100 fine if you don't notify them soon enough.

Some here will tell you not to bother with permits and registration, but that's not sound legal advice. 

Technically, you or your friend could fly to one or the other's state and swap guns in person.  You can then register his (now yours) handgun as an out-of-state firearm without the need for a permit to acquire.  That saves the shipping and FFL costs plus your 2-week wait, which might not be much benefit if you have to buy a plane ticket outside of business travel.

While that is feasible, it's violating federal gun laws that regulate interstate firearm transfers.  It's up to the parties involved to decide what they want to do.
https://www.usconcealedcarry.com/resources/federal-ccw-law/federal-private-firearm-transfer-laws/
As a rule once I get get a gun it never leaves
my immediate family.
I'm no longer a Hawaii legal resident so I don't
give a fuk about your stupid laws.
That being said I do exchange gun and buy guns.

You do have to be a "resident" in order to make transfers.
and not involve FFL and government assholes.
Residency is surprising easy to establish.
For example I'm a legal resident of WA state
registered to vote there, but I spend most my
time with my wife at our home in Hawaii.
Y'all figure it out as you beg for your rights.
 :shaka:





.



Rocky

Re: Trading a pistol from the mainland questions
« Reply #4 on: June 14, 2023, 08:35:38 AM »

#NotaLawyer

« Last Edit: November 15, 2023, 03:12:17 PM by Rocky »
“I ask you to judge me by the enemies I have made.”
                                                           Franklin D. Roosevelt

Flapp_Jackson

Re: Trading a pistol from the mainland questions
« Reply #5 on: June 14, 2023, 09:16:03 AM »
Easiest is you "bring" your firearm to him (out of state) make sale/trade.
You "return" with his firearm and register as out of state purchase and notify HPD  of sale of your fire arm,
#NotaLawyer

Nobody here does anything illegal, especially if it's a felony under federal and state statutes.
The reasonable man adapts himself to the world;
the unreasonable one persists in trying to adapt the world to himself.
Therefore, all progress depends on the unreasonable man.
-- George Bernard Shaw

changemyoil66

Re: Trading a pistol from the mainland questions
« Reply #6 on: June 14, 2023, 09:55:19 AM »
Make sure you call the FFL's that will be used, don't just ship stuff to them.

randay

Re: Trading a pistol from the mainland questions
« Reply #7 on: June 14, 2023, 10:37:54 AM »
HPD dont care or need to know if its a trade. Just treat it as one purchase and one sale.

Maybe he can fly in with his pistol, register it here. then you both apply for permit to acquire same time, and then do registrations 2 weeks later.

Flapp_Jackson

Re: Trading a pistol from the mainland questions
« Reply #8 on: June 14, 2023, 10:42:51 AM »
Make sure you call the FFL's that will be used, don't just ship stuff to them.

The FFL should also be verified.  Easy to do.  All current FFLs are available on the ATF website.

The FFL should send you a signed copy of their license.  Use that to verify the license is current.  If the receiving FFL is able to send you a shipping label, verify the label address matches the license address.  If you have to use a local FFL to ship through, again verify the address matches the one on the license (the shipping FFL will need a copy of the recipient's license).

Never ship a gun to an FFL using an address other than the one on the license.

Just speaking to them isn't enough, but it is a good way to verify the phone number is likely valid.

The reasonable man adapts himself to the world;
the unreasonable one persists in trying to adapt the world to himself.
Therefore, all progress depends on the unreasonable man.
-- George Bernard Shaw

Flapp_Jackson

Re: Trading a pistol from the mainland questions
« Reply #9 on: June 14, 2023, 10:51:36 AM »
HPD dont care or need to know if its a trade. Just treat it as one purchase and one sale.

Maybe he can fly in with his pistol, register it here. then you both apply for permit to acquire same time, and then do registrations 2 weeks later.

If the friend is not a resident of HI, HPD won't issue a permit if it violates federal law.

Quote
Under federal law, an unlicensed individual is prohibited from transferring a firearm
to an individual who does not reside in the same state as the transferee. ...
The reasonable man adapts himself to the world;
the unreasonable one persists in trying to adapt the world to himself.
Therefore, all progress depends on the unreasonable man.
-- George Bernard Shaw

randay

Re: Trading a pistol from the mainland questions
« Reply #10 on: June 14, 2023, 11:19:05 AM »
If the friend is not a resident of HI, HPD won't issue a permit if it violates federal law.

there is reality, and there is internet. come live in the real world with us mr jackson.

changemyoil66

Re: Trading a pistol from the mainland questions
« Reply #11 on: June 14, 2023, 11:39:36 AM »
The FFL should also be verified.  Easy to do.  All current FFLs are available on the ATF website.

The FFL should send you a signed copy of their license.  Use that to verify the license is current.  If the receiving FFL is able to send you a shipping label, verify the label address matches the license address.  If you have to use a local FFL to ship through, again verify the address matches the one on the license (the shipping FFL will need a copy of the recipient's license).

Never ship a gun to an FFL using an address other than the one on the license.

Just speaking to them isn't enough, but it is a good way to verify the phone number is likely valid.

I know a few FFL's and they get random guns that show up. No explanation until the guy shows up. This irritates them.  IDK if they're allowed to "return to sender".

Flapp_Jackson

Re: Trading a pistol from the mainland questions
« Reply #12 on: June 14, 2023, 01:48:31 PM »
I know a few FFL's and they get random guns that show up. No explanation until the guy shows up. This irritates them.  IDK if they're allowed to "return to sender".

Most people will be tracking the package and know when it's delivered.  if the buyer doesn't contact the shop very soon, the shop has every right to return it to the seller.

Some shops here have a policy to only accept firearms shipped by an FFL.  They experienced too many problems in the past with private sellers direct-shipping and messing it up in a variety of ways.  if such a policy exists, and they have no signed FFL certificate on file for the originator, they may decide to send it back.

I know OGC has an online process where you can receive a copy of their license to forward to the seller.  Doing this notifies OGC you are expecting a firearm shipment, so they won't be surprised.  Not sure if others have that, but you should at least make contact with the shop to get their FFL copy for the seller.

Large firearm companies may already have your FFL on file, and no license copy is needed, but it's a good idea to check anyway in case the license was recently renewed.  Addresses and names can change, so it's good to get a copy of the most current license.  OGC even forgot to update their expired license when i was doing an out-of-state purchase once. They updated it and sent me the renewed version.
The reasonable man adapts himself to the world;
the unreasonable one persists in trying to adapt the world to himself.
Therefore, all progress depends on the unreasonable man.
-- George Bernard Shaw

changemyoil66

Re: Trading a pistol from the mainland questions
« Reply #13 on: June 14, 2023, 02:09:12 PM »


Large firearm companies may already have your FFL on file, and no license copy is needed, but it's a good idea to check anyway in case the license was recently renewed.  Addresses and names can change, so it's good to get a copy of the most current license.  OGC even forgot to update their expired license when i was doing an out-of-state purchase once. They updated it and sent me the renewed version.

Gun Broker has a automatic search feature for FFL's they have on file.  But when I ordered my M45, the only one in a 5 mile radius of Ala Moana area was DCT.  SEC, OGC, 808GC, etc..all weren't on their list. I was going to send it to DCT anyways, so it worked out.

This was during the ending of covid mandates, so it is possible that SEC told them to remove them since they weren't accepting FFL transfers at the time due to HPD's PTA delays.