HIFICO, Wolford etal vs. Lopez (Hawaii State Sensitive Places Lawsuit) (Read 31094 times)

Flapp_Jackson

Kobayashi stated that the lawsuit should have been filed months ago and not when HIFICO did.  The issue with that is the law didn't take effect until 7/1.  So I'm not holding my breath with an honest ruling from her.

There was a catch-22 in the elections that kept candidates from filing a complaint against election supervision and practices until after the election.  Until the result are known, the plaintiff doesn't have grounds to file.

But, when you wait until the election is over, the court then has a small window of time to grant any sort of meaningful relief.  Once the results are certified in a state, the court is reluctant to step in unless there is clear evidence of election tampering.

Can't file before the election, and can't file after -- both with seemingly logical, legal justifications.

Sounds like this is similar.  Have to file before the bill is law in order to stop it, and have to wait until it's law to have "standing" and to even have something to complaint about -- as in the bill hasn't been signed and could be vetoed, making any legal action moot.

 :wacko:
The reasonable man adapts himself to the world;
the unreasonable one persists in trying to adapt the world to himself.
Therefore, all progress depends on the unreasonable man.
-- George Bernard Shaw

hvybarrels

Kobayashi stated that the lawsuit should have been filed months ago and not when HIFICO did.  The issue with that is the law didn't take effect until 7/1.  So I'm not holding my breath with an honest ruling from her.

So odd. She doesn't seem like the type who wants to rewrite the constitution. Neurological damage from the vax?
If the news was lying to me I would have heard about it on the news.

hvybarrels

If the news was lying to me I would have heard about it on the news.

zippz

Hearing is public, virtual only.

Call in tomorrow if you want to hear it

Friday July 28th 10:30am
Audio call: 1-650-479-3207, Access Code: 1607483022

SonRunner

All I heard is from KITV news, who advised that Judge Kobayashi is deliberating on the matter and stated that she would proceed with "cautious speed."

https://www.kitv.com/news/guns-on-hawaiis-beaches-federal-judge-hears-motion-for-injunction-friday-morning/article_a9c00e08-2d94-11ee-992a-3b9189bde875.html

changemyoil66

1 part

State is saying making someone put up a no guns allowed sign is forced speech.



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hvybarrels

1 part

State is saying making someone put up a no guns allowed sign is forced speech.



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If the news was lying to me I would have heard about it on the news.

changemyoil66

part 2

The state seemed to concead that banning any c&c/state parking lots that are not soley for a c&c/state building should not be part of the parking lot ban.  Example: Ala Moana Shopping Center Satellite City Hall shares their parking with the mall and other stores. 

Sorry for the delay, been busy with baby.

changemyoil66

Re: HIFICO, Wolford etal vs. Lopez (Hawaii State Sensitive Places Lawsuit)
« Reply #48 on: August 08, 2023, 07:20:03 PM »
TRO issued, but only for the following

State law only, this doesnt apply to oahu or big island ordinance.

Law is suspended on the following

Parking lots belonging to city/state if its shared with another entity

Parks, beaches and their parking lot

Private property open to the public

Banks

Restaurants that serve booze


This is huge as its an obama judge who ruled.

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Heavies

Re: HIFICO, Wolford etal vs. Lopez (Hawaii State Sensitive Places Lawsuit)
« Reply #49 on: August 08, 2023, 09:45:44 PM »
TRO issued, but only for the following

State law only, this doesnt apply to oahu or big island ordinance.

Law is suspended on the following

Parking lots belonging to city/state if its shared with another entity

Parks, beaches and their parking lot

Private property open to the public

Banks

Restaurants that serve booze


This is huge as its an obama judge who ruled.

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Awesome! 

macsak

Re: HIFICO, Wolford etal vs. Lopez (Hawaii State Sensitive Places Lawsuit)
« Reply #50 on: August 09, 2023, 08:56:27 AM »

changemyoil66

Rhed

Re: HIFICO, Wolford etal vs. Lopez (Hawaii State Sensitive Places Lawsuit)
« Reply #52 on: August 09, 2023, 06:27:14 PM »

changemyoil66

Re: HIFICO, Wolford etal vs. Lopez (Hawaii State Sensitive Places Lawsuit)
« Reply #53 on: August 15, 2023, 10:13:46 AM »
So the state is appealing the TRO. Even though they couldn't prove any history and tradition, they said the judge was wrong in her ruling.  This appeal is highly unusual.

What I'm surprised about is that the judge said something along the lines of "what's the big deal, if its concealed, who's going to know one is carrying". In response to the states "public safety" weak argument.

The state knows if they lose this lawsuit, the remaining places will fall as well. Which is who HIFICO donations are needed. Our historian needs to work more than normal because HI won't give up.  And this is what HI wants, is to make it too expensive for anyone to challenge. The future of HI gun laws all begin on this lawsuit.

Flapp_Jackson

Re: HIFICO, Wolford etal vs. Lopez (Hawaii State Sensitive Places Lawsuit)
« Reply #54 on: August 15, 2023, 10:45:20 AM »
So the state is appealing the TRO. Even though they couldn't prove any history and tradition, they said the judge was wrong in her ruling.  This appeal is highly unusual.

What I'm surprised about is that the judge said something along the lines of "what's the big deal, if its concealed, who's going to know one is carrying". In response to the states "public safety" weak argument.

The state knows if they lose this lawsuit, the remaining places will fall as well. Which is who HIFICO donations are needed. Our historian needs to work more than normal because HI won't give up.  And this is what HI wants, is to make it too expensive for anyone to challenge. The future of HI gun laws all begin on this lawsuit.

SCOTUS wrote in the Bruen decision that the state cannot us a balancing rationale for justifying violation of a right. That balancing specifically included public safety versus an individual right to bear arms.

Yet, the state of Hawaii still thinks they can do so even though it goes against the Supreme Court.

Quote
(1) Since Heller and McDonald, the Courts of Appeals have developed a
“two-step” framework for analyzing Second Amendment challenges that
combines history with means-end scrutiny. The Court rejects that two-part
approach as having one step too many. Step one isbroadly consistent with
Heller, which demands a test rooted in the Second Amendment’s text, as
informed by history. But Heller and McDonald do not support a second step
that applies means-end scrutiny inthe Second Amendment context. Heller’s
methodology centered onconstitutional text and history. It did not invoke
any means-end test such as strict or intermediate scrutiny, and it expressly
rejected any interest-balancing inquiry akin to intermediate scrutiny. Pp. 9–15.

interest-balancing and means-end testing encapsulates the state's rationale for placing more importance on public safety in order to violate the right to bear arms.  Can't do that anymore.  In fact, SCOTUS said that the lower courts need to revisit cases in which they applied this two-part justification and remand the cases back down for corrective action.
The reasonable man adapts himself to the world;
the unreasonable one persists in trying to adapt the world to himself.
Therefore, all progress depends on the unreasonable man.
-- George Bernard Shaw

zippz

Re: HIFICO, Wolford etal vs. Lopez (Hawaii State Sensitive Places Lawsuit)
« Reply #55 on: August 15, 2023, 11:03:04 AM »
All favorable 2A decisions in the district court or 3 person appeals court are appealed, nationally.  It is very rare for no appeal to be made unless there is a settlement.

This was expected.  There is a decent chance that the TRO won't be overturned thanks to Trump's 9 Cir judge appointments.

changemyoil66

Re: HIFICO, Wolford etal vs. Lopez (Hawaii State Sensitive Places Lawsuit)
« Reply #56 on: August 15, 2023, 12:32:46 PM »
SCOTUS wrote in the Bruen decision that the state cannot us a balancing rationale for justifying violation of a right. That balancing specifically included public safety versus an individual right to bear arms.

Yet, the state of Hawaii still thinks they can do so even though it goes against the Supreme Court.

interest-balancing and means-end testing encapsulates the state's rationale for placing more importance on public safety in order to violate the right to bear arms.  Can't do that anymore.  In fact, SCOTUS said that the lower courts need to revisit cases in which they applied this two-part justification and remand the cases back down for corrective action.
U know this, many here know this. But the anti 2a's are still using it as justification. And judges even still obey the old style.



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hvybarrels

Re: HIFICO, Wolford etal vs. Lopez (Hawaii State Sensitive Places Lawsuit)
« Reply #57 on: August 15, 2023, 02:38:20 PM »
Think of what's going on with the armed robbery in Lahaina right now. They were a peaceful happy community and all of a sudden it's a blood for blood struggle for survival. If it can happen there it can happen anywhere.

We need nation wide constitutional carry, and handing these commies another defeat by winning this case is an important step in the right direction.
If the news was lying to me I would have heard about it on the news.

SonRunner

Re: HIFICO, Wolford etal vs. Lopez (Hawaii State Sensitive Places Lawsuit)
« Reply #58 on: August 15, 2023, 08:13:14 PM »
TRO issued, but only for the following

State law only, this doesnt apply to oahu or big island ordinance.

Law is suspended on the following

Parking lots belonging to city/state if its shared with another entity

Parks, beaches and their parking lot

Private property open to the public

Banks

Restaurants that serve booze


This is huge as its an obama judge who ruled.

Sent from my SM-G991U using Tapatalk

So due to the Honolulu City Ordinance, there is still no CCW in the following?

    • Parking lots belonging to city/state if its shared with another entity
      Parks, beaches and their parking lot
      Private property open to the public
      Banks
      Restaurants that serve booze
« Last Edit: August 15, 2023, 08:21:34 PM by SonRunner »

changemyoil66

Re: HIFICO, Wolford etal vs. Lopez (Hawaii State Sensitive Places Lawsuit)
« Reply #59 on: August 15, 2023, 09:02:49 PM »
So due to the Honolulu City Ordinance, there is still no CCW in the following?

    • Parking lots belonging to city/state if its shared with another entity
      Parks, beaches and their parking lot
      Private property open to the public
      Banks
      Restaurants that serve booze
Yes

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