Glad I don’t own anything that I would need a Liberty Safe for

https://youtu.be/zMhQeXBzJ3Q?si=KGmuv6M8hkdN3Wp3

I am undecided about this. On the one hand I want my stuff in the safe to be... safe but on the other hand, if a law enforcement agency has a justified reason to go into a safe and did the proper thing of securing a search warrant then I am not against helping either. I don't think Liberty Safes has any obligation to cooperate legally speaking though.

From a purely economic standpoint though, if it costs them enough in sales because of unhappy customers then well they shouldn't continue the practice.

Look at it from a legal perspective.

The warrant was executed against the owner of the safe and his property.  The cops never filed for any court orders to compel Liberty to divulge any information.  Liberty basically cast themselves as agents of the FBI assisting in executing a warrant against a former customer with no authority other than the FBI asking them to.

Obviously the FBI already knew Liberty had the backdoor code to give them, or they would not have asked.  Since Liberty stated it's their policy to provide that code to LE when a search warrant is being executed, this is not the first time for this.

This is a good example of why you should always opt for a mechanical dial over a keypad/digital lock.  If you're opting for biometric locks, then there's even more risk.

As I said already, nothing legally compelled Liberty to give the FBI that backdoor code.  It was 100% their decision.  They should have at least waited for a judge to issue an order compelling the information be turned over.  If they'd done that, they should have also appealed it in court -- any avenue to avoid violating the trust of not just that one customer, but every single one who hears about it now.

In September 2021, Liberty Safe was acquired by Monomoy Capital Partners, a private
investment firm that has offices in New York and Connecticut and $2.7 billion in committed
capital across five investment funds. Liberty Safe operates out of its Payson, Utah, facility.

The manufacturer's CEO, Justin Hillenbrand, made political contributions to Obama twice
when the Democrat was a first-time presidential nominee in 2008, totaling $4,600, according
to Federal Election Commission (FEC) records.

Monomoy founding partner Stephen Presser, who died in March, is listed by the FEC as
making countless individual contributions to myriad Democrats, including current Senators
Raphael Warnock, John Fetterman and Mark Kelly. The company's max donations over the
last 10 election cycles have totaled almost $400,000.

"And we're supposed to be surprised they betrayed their customers to the FBI as quickly as
humanly possible?" Turning Point USA founder Charlie Kirk wrote on X, formerly Twitter.
"Boycott Liberty Safe."

Kirk previously expressed disdain for Liberty Safe's decision to comply with the FBI warrant,
saying that instead of fighting it akin to companies like Apple, "they buckled and bent over."

Elon Musk, however, said that Liberty Safe should not be boycotted.

"I think we're going too far with these Jan 6th sentence lengths, especially given other crimes
that aren't being prosecuted at all, but Liberty Safe had no choice here and are not to blame,"
Musk wrote on his platform.

has it clearly come out the details on what combination liberty safe gave the feds? was it the owners manually chosen combination that the owner gave to liberty safe for "safe keeping"? or was it some kind of backdoor master combination?

so it was a backdoor. next question is if the existance of this backdoor combination is made clear to each customer, or if it was a company secret. prior to this incident of course. like is it clearly stated in the manual or documents that the safe has a backdoor combination?

Look at it from a legal perspective.

The warrant was executed against the owner of the safe and his property.  The cops never filed for any court orders to compel Liberty to divulge any information.  Liberty basically cast themselves as agents of the FBI assisting in executing a warrant against a former customer with no authority other than the FBI asking them to.

Obviously the FBI already knew Liberty had the backdoor code to give them, or they would not have asked.  Since Liberty stated it's their policy to provide that code to LE when a search warrant is being executed, this is not the first time for this.

As I said already, nothing legally compelled Liberty to give the FBI that backdoor code.  It was 100% their decision.  They should have at least waited for a judge to issue an order compelling the information be turned over.  If they'd done that, they should have also appealed it in court -- any avenue to avoid violating the trust of not just that one customer, but every single one who hears about it now.

If we look at it compared to other businesses, it is quite common that businesses will give cops information without a warrant or subpoena. Imagine someone commits an assault inside a supermarket, the supermarket will usually give the video without a court order. That does not make the supermarket an agent of law enforcement because they provided information simply on law enforcement request.


Possibly but not necessarily. Someone at the FBI might have simply come up with the idea of asking if Liberty had a back door instead of the harder way of breaking the safe open. But once someone figures out that this option exists then it would likely become pretty widely known.


That is less of a legal perspective and more of a policy perspective. Legally they could give this backdoor code or they could demand a subpoena/search warrant.

On a side note I always wished I had gotten the digital keypad since it is faster but at least the mechanical lock they don't have a backdoor. In the end I think this is not really that big an issue. If cops come to my house and take my safe as part of some criminal investigation they are going to get into it eventually

If we look at it compared to other businesses, it is quite common that businesses will give cops information without a warrant or subpoena. Imagine someone commits an assault inside a supermarket, the supermarket will usually give the video without a court order. That does not make the supermarket an agent of law enforcement because they provided information simply on law enforcement request.

Please show me where protecting a supermarket's video is a constitutionally protected right of the people.  Also, people in a supermarket are in a public access area where there is no expectation of privacy.  Thirdly, releasing the video does not grant LE access to the private, secured spaces owned by anyone in the video.  Your analogy is 100%+ wrong.


Possibly but not necessarily. Someone at the FBI might have simply come up with the idea of asking if Liberty had a back door instead of the harder way of breaking the safe open. But once someone figures out that this option exists then it would likely become pretty widely known.

That's a ridiculous argument when the company has a stated policy that says what I said.  Liberty explained they only provide access  codes where a warrant is in place.
 That's not a hypothetical.  That's an admission as to how they have been operating.


That is less of a legal perspective and more of a policy perspective. Legally they could give this backdoor code or they could demand a subpoena/search warrant.

No.  Now you're just mincing words.  You reiterated exactly what I said, but chose to say it's policy, not "legal perspective."  That's BS.  When they were not compelled LEGALLY to disclose anything until and unless a subpoena forced them to, that's about as much of a legal issue as it can get.  It was their policy to cooperate with only a search warrant issued for their customer's property, but the fact that they had no legal requirement to do so is 100% within the scope of "legal perspective" regardless of policy.

On a side note I always wished I had gotten the digital keypad since it is faster but at least the mechanical lock they don't have a backdoor. In the end I think this is not really that big an issue.

So, if you buy a safe to protect your property from ANY access without your permission, and the vendor bypasses your combination to let LE open it, you'd be okay with that?
 WTH did you buy a safe for then?  If a 3rd party can decide  to allow someone else access to your safe's contents, would you really not see that as a big deal?

If cops come to my house and take my safe as part of some criminal investigation they are going to get into it eventually

Saying "they are going to get into it eventually" is a rationalization, not a justification.  Any motivated thief is going to eventually get into your locked safe to steal your guns, so why have a safe at all?  Just get a locking cabinet to keep the kids out, and you're golden.

On a side note I always wished I had gotten the digital keypad since it is faster but at least the mechanical lock they don't have a backdoor. In the end I think this is not really that big an issue. If cops come to my house and take my safe as part of some criminal investigation they are going to get into it eventually

Unfortunately Mechanical safes do have a backdoor code.

Some safes are equipped with a mechanical safe lock where you need to turn
a dial to enter your code. Changing the code on this type of lock must be done
by an authorized Liberty Safe dealer or a licensed locksmith.

You can find a list of dealers and locksmiths in your area here.