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California Trying To Use Mandatory Firearm Training To Violate 2A Rights (Read 5561 times)

macsak

California Trying To Use Mandatory Firearm Training To Violate 2A Rights
« on: December 12, 2023, 03:21:15 PM »
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oldfart

Re: California Trying To Use Mandatory Firearm Training To Violate 2A Rights
« Reply #1 on: December 12, 2023, 05:20:54 PM »
That's what they did here. Only HPD can certify the instructor.

So therefore, no certification=no instructor=no permit

But you guys knew that right?
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What, Me Worry?

macsak

Re: California Trying To Use Mandatory Firearm Training To Violate 2A Rights
« Reply #2 on: December 12, 2023, 05:30:23 PM »
it's almost as if i posted it for a reason...

Quote from: oldfart on December 12, 2023, 05:20:54 PM
That's what they did here. Only HPD can certify the instructor.

So therefore, no certification=no instructor=no permit

But you guys knew that right?
Logged

oldfart

Re: California Trying To Use Mandatory Firearm Training To Violate 2A Rights
« Reply #3 on: December 12, 2023, 06:17:47 PM »
Quote from: macsak on December 12, 2023, 05:30:23 PM
it's almost as if i posted it for a reason...
....
You would be surprised how oblivious people are.
Better to over-explain than assume that everyone gets the message.
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What, Me Worry?

QUIETShooter

Re: California Trying To Use Mandatory Firearm Training To Violate 2A Rights
« Reply #4 on: December 12, 2023, 06:35:56 PM »
Everything is so cryptic here. 

I'm still walking around here with a flashlight. :wave:
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Sometimes you gotta know when to save your bullets.

oldfart

Re: California Trying To Use Mandatory Firearm Training To Violate 2A Rights
« Reply #5 on: December 12, 2023, 06:48:59 PM »
Quote from: QUIETShooter on December 12, 2023, 06:35:56 PM
Everything is so cryptic here. 

I'm still walking around here with a flashlight. :wave:
....
I don't know a lot of the slang and acronyms used by kids nowadays.
It's not effective communications.

Use your words.
Say what you mean and mean what you say..
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What, Me Worry?

Flapp_Jackson

Re: California Trying To Use Mandatory Firearm Training To Violate 2A Rights
« Reply #6 on: December 12, 2023, 06:52:58 PM »
Quote from: oldfart on December 12, 2023, 06:48:59 PM
....
I don't know a lot of the slang and acronyms used by kids nowadays.
It's not effective communications.

Use your words.
Say what you mean and mean what you say..

You are talking about the nonsensical ravings of a lunatic mind!
-- Dr. Frederick Frankenstein
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The reasonable man adapts himself to the world;
the unreasonable one persists in trying to adapt the world to himself.
Therefore, all progress depends on the unreasonable man.
-- George Bernard Shaw

macsak

Re: California Trying To Use Mandatory Firearm Training To Violate 2A Rights
« Reply #7 on: December 12, 2023, 06:58:19 PM »
fleshlight

Quote from: QUIETShooter on December 12, 2023, 06:35:56 PM
Everything is so cryptic here. 

I'm still walking around here with a flashlight. :wave:
Logged

macsak

Re: California Trying To Use Mandatory Firearm Training To Violate 2A Rights
« Reply #8 on: December 12, 2023, 06:58:44 PM »
heads

Quote from: oldfart on December 12, 2023, 06:48:59 PM
....
I don't know a lot of the slang and acronyms used by kids nowadays.
It's not effective communications.

Use your words.
Say what you mean and mean what you say..
Logged

oldfart

Re: California Trying To Use Mandatory Firearm Training To Violate 2A Rights
« Reply #9 on: December 17, 2023, 07:07:28 AM »
Emergency regulations on concealed weapons instructors recently proposed by the California Department of Justice caused pushback from some law enforcement agencies.
-----------
Warning! Slippery ground ahead!
This kind of legislation should set off all kinds of alarms.
What would be the next instructor to be de-certified?
History teachers? Social studies teachers? They might teach old fashioned traditional things like civil rights.
Maybe metal shop teachers since they could teach people how to make a sharp tool that might hurt someone.

Even cops realize this is not a good idea.
=============
https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/us/proposed-emergency-gun-regulations-on-ccw-instructors-in-california-draws-pushback-from-sheriff-s-association/ar-AA1lBTzt?ocid=socialshare&pc=LCTS&cvid=eb537f06974e4e25b43b8415fe68a6ab&ei=18
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What, Me Worry?

QUIETShooter

Re: California Trying To Use Mandatory Firearm Training To Violate 2A Rights
« Reply #10 on: December 17, 2023, 07:20:54 AM »
Quote from: oldfart on December 12, 2023, 06:48:59 PM
....
I don't know a lot of the slang and acronyms used by kids nowadays.
It's not effective communications.

Use your words.
Say what you mean and mean what you say..

I dunno how many times I had to google to find out what is being said around here..... :rofl:

I mean, how many micro-seconds does one save by typing WTF instead of WHAT THE F*CK.
Logged
Sometimes you gotta know when to save your bullets.

QUIETShooter

Re: California Trying To Use Mandatory Firearm Training To Violate 2A Rights
« Reply #11 on: December 17, 2023, 07:23:16 AM »
Quote from: oldfart on December 17, 2023, 07:07:28 AM
Emergency regulations on concealed weapons instructors recently proposed by the California Department of Justice caused pushback from some law enforcement agencies.
-----------
Warning! Slippery ground ahead!
This kind of legislation should set off all kinds of alarms.
What would be the next instructor to be de-certified?
History teachers? Social studies teachers? They might teach old fashioned traditional things like civil rights.
Maybe metal shop teachers since they could teach people how to make a sharp tool that might hurt someone.

Even cops realize this is not a good idea.
=============
https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/us/proposed-emergency-gun-regulations-on-ccw-instructors-in-california-draws-pushback-from-sheriff-s-association/ar-AA1lBTzt?ocid=socialshare&pc=LCTS&cvid=eb537f06974e4e25b43b8415fe68a6ab&ei=18

This seems to be what Hawaii is going to do.  Minus the pushback from law enforcement. ::) ::)
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Sometimes you gotta know when to save your bullets.

astroboy

Re: California Trying To Use Mandatory Firearm Training To Violate 2A Rights
« Reply #12 on: December 17, 2023, 09:20:46 AM »
I heard that the HPD fire arms instructors were trained by the NRA around a year ago.
Can anyone verify this?
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groveler

Re: California Trying To Use Mandatory Firearm Training To Violate 2A Rights
« Reply #13 on: December 17, 2023, 11:43:25 AM »
Quote from: QUIETShooter on December 12, 2023, 06:35:56 PM
Everything is so cryptic here. 

I'm still walking around here with a flashlight. :wave:
"I'm still walking around here with a flashlight"
So you are our Hawaii version of Diogenes?
Good for you!
But I suspect you won't discover too many rational people in this state outside
websites like this one.
Most all have left or given up on the politics here.
 :wave:
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oldfart

Re: California Trying To Use Mandatory Firearm Training To Violate 2A Rights
« Reply #14 on: December 17, 2023, 11:47:29 AM »
Quote from: astroboy on December 17, 2023, 09:20:46 AM
I heard that the HPD fire arms instructors were trained by the NRA around a year ago.
Can anyone verify this?
=========
Just a guess here...
I think every firearms instructor in America has had training from the NRA in some way, shape or form.

The thought of somebody in the police dept dictating that they are the sole certifiers of firearms instruction is just arrogant and insulting.
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What, Me Worry?

QUIETShooter

Re: California Trying To Use Mandatory Firearm Training To Violate 2A Rights
« Reply #15 on: December 17, 2023, 12:19:15 PM »
Why would a police department feel they are the ones that need to "certify" firearm instructors?

Are they looking for instructors willing to rat out their students?

Because what is the difference between an NRA certified Firearms Instructor and an NRA Certified Firearms Instructor "certified" by a police department?

Inquiring minds want to know.
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Sometimes you gotta know when to save your bullets.

oldfart

Re: California Trying To Use Mandatory Firearm Training To Violate 2A Rights
« Reply #16 on: December 17, 2023, 03:15:43 PM »
Quote from: QUIETShooter on December 17, 2023, 12:19:15 PM
Why would a police department feel they are the ones that need to "certify" firearm instructors?

Are they looking for instructors willing to rat out their students?

Because what is the difference between an NRA certified Firearms Instructor and an NRA Certified Firearms Instructor "certified" by a police department?

Inquiring minds want to know.
================
Correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe that the PD wanted to require firearms instructors to include a portion of their class dedicated to mental health education or something like that.
The theory being that since many firearm deaths are the result of suicide or mental health problems then the instructors will somehow magically persuade a crazy person not to shoot himself (or herself) or anybody else.

ie. the PD wants firearm instructors to be mind readers or at the very least, psychology instructors.
The PD is asking firearms instructors to teach a subject they are not qualified to teach.

An analogy would be to ask your high school drivers-ed teacher to also teach students how to drive an 18 wheel semi or perhaps fly a cessna.

Does that sound about right?
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What, Me Worry?

zippz

Re: California Trying To Use Mandatory Firearm Training To Violate 2A Rights
« Reply #17 on: December 17, 2023, 03:54:40 PM »
Quote from: astroboy on December 17, 2023, 09:20:46 AM
I heard that the HPD fire arms instructors were trained by the NRA around a year ago.
Can anyone verify this?

NRA has a Law Enforcement tract for firearms training and instructors.  Their LE instructor course I believe is a week long while the civilian version is 1 or 2 days.  Most police departments, along with HPD, use this training.

https://le.nra.org/
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changemyoil66

Re: California Trying To Use Mandatory Firearm Training To Violate 2A Rights
« Reply #18 on: December 17, 2023, 08:11:37 PM »
Quote from: oldfart on December 17, 2023, 03:15:43 PM
================
Correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe that the PD wanted to require firearms instructors to include a portion of their class dedicated to mental health education or something like that.
The theory being that since many firearm deaths are the result of suicide or mental health problems then the instructors will somehow magically persuade a crazy person not to shoot himself (or herself) or anybody else.

ie. the PD wants firearm instructors to be mind readers or at the very least, psychology instructors.
The PD is asking firearms instructors to teach a subject they are not qualified to teach.

An analogy would be to ask your high school drivers-ed teacher to also teach students how to drive an 18 wheel semi or perhaps fly a cessna.

Does that sound about right?
Hifico told them this that it opens the instructor to liability for teaching mental health stuff. As usual, they dont care and probably welcome it.

Sent from my SM-G991U using Tapatalk

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eyeeatingfish

Re: California Trying To Use Mandatory Firearm Training To Violate 2A Rights
« Reply #19 on: December 17, 2023, 11:14:46 PM »
Quote from: oldfart on December 12, 2023, 05:20:54 PM
That's what they did here. Only HPD can certify the instructor.

So therefore, no certification=no instructor=no permit

But you guys knew that right?

Have they denied any instructors without good cause?
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