https://www.honolulupd.org/police-services/firearms/?fbclid=IwAR1uHfe0BRazX-JZiQ-iPhO6fFDoTUwVAUegFW6rQD7eiGUvQTvlfirpZ2M

Click proposed rules link.

Click on public hearing notice

Written testimony can be submitted to :

HPDLTC@honolulu.gov

Did i read that right?  $150 for the LTC?  Wow!

Did i read that right?  $150 for the LTC?  Wow!

Yes, this was in the SB1230 bill that passed earlier this year.  Also if after 120 days have passed, its an automatic denial and you lose your $150 dollars.

When someone hates you this much is it okay to hate them back?

Asking for a friend 

HPD:  You don't get to exercise your Constitutional right to bear arms until you pay $150.00.  Then 4 years from now you pay us again.  And again.  And again.  Oh and by the way, no forget to read where when and how you can carry.

Me:  Oooooh yoo fackahs I HATE YOU HATE YOU HATE YOUUUUUUU!!!!!

 

   Just kidding HPD.  We all gotta make a living.  Must give you guys a boner though, knowing how much power you guys have over us.

But yeah.  Not you guys.  It's yo bosses that's full of shiite.

EVERYONE should be concerned about this part

"Statements or actions by the person indicating any dangerous
propensity or violent animus toward one or more individuals or
groups, including groups based on race, color, national origin,
ancestry, sex, gender identity, gender expression, sexual
orientation, age, disability, religion, or any other characteristic, and
the propensity or animus is of a nature or to an extent that would
objectively indicate to a reasonable observer that it would not be in
the interest of the public health, safety, or welfare for the person to
own, possess, or control a firearm or ammunition. The Chief may
consider information provided as part of the application, as well as
any other information available to the Honolulu Police Department
or the general public, in making this determination; and"



This is a free speech lawsuit waiting to happen and there are no specific "objective" guidelines either.  The other part has points that guide what's to be used to make a determination with regard to "other information that the  person is a danger". Like TRO, negligent discharges, DUI, a crime of violence within 3 years, etc...I don't agree with this part either.

HPD:  You don't get to exercise your Constitutional right to bear arms until you pay $150.00.  Then 4 years from now you pay us again.  And again.  And again.  Oh and by the way, no forget to read where when and how you can carry.

Me:  Oooooh yoo fackahs I HATE YOU HATE YOU HATE YOUUUUUUU!!!!!

 

   Just kidding HPD.  We all gotta make a living.  Must give you guys a boner though, knowing how much power you guys have over us.

But yeah.  Not you guys.  It's yo bosses that's full of shiite.

"No one wakes up with a boner on how to have power over the people"-1 person would say.

is the boner subjective or objective?

"No one wakes up with a boner on how to have power over the people"-1 person would say.

Was there a HIFICO representative at this meeting?

Seems like a great place to bring up the lawsuits and how much fun it is dealing with a state that lets crime get out of control while preventing citizens from defending themselves.

https://www.hawaiinewsnow.com/2023/12/14/gun-safety-tips-get-concealed-carry-permits-highlight-unique-town-hall-kapolei/

Was there a HIFICO representative at this meeting?

Seems like a great place to bring up the lawsuits and how much fun it is dealing with a state that lets crime get out of control while preventing citizens from defending themselves.

https://www.hawaiinewsnow.com/2023/12/14/gun-safety-tips-get-concealed-carry-permits-highlight-unique-town-hall-kapolei/

It's amazing because when you read the article you ask yourself:  Where did all the common sense go?  Anyone can figure out that when there are no consequences, there will be an increase in criminal activity.

Was there a HIFICO representative at this meeting?

Seems like a great place to bring up the lawsuits and how much fun it is dealing with a state that lets crime get out of control while preventing citizens from defending themselves.

https://www.hawaiinewsnow.com/2023/12/14/gun-safety-tips-get-concealed-carry-permits-highlight-unique-town-hall-kapolei/

No.

EVERYONE should be concerned about this part

"Statements or actions by the person indicating any dangerous
propensity or violent animus toward one or more individuals or
groups, including groups based on race, color, national origin,
ancestry, sex, gender identity, gender expression, sexual
orientation, age, disability, religion, or any other characteristic, and
the propensity or animus is of a nature or to an extent that would
objectively indicate to a reasonable observer that it would not be in
the interest of the public health, safety, or welfare for the person to
own, possess, or control a firearm or ammunition. The Chief may
consider information provided as part of the application, as well as
any other information available to the Honolulu Police Department
or the general public, in making this determination; and"



This is a free speech lawsuit waiting to happen and there are no specific "objective" guidelines either.  The other part has points that guide what's to be used to make a determination with regard to "other information that the  person is a danger". Like TRO, negligent discharges, DUI, a crime of violence within 3 years, etc...I don't agree with this part either.

"Violent animus"?
"Interest of Public Health"?
"Any other characteristic"?

That is so broad and vague to be arguably unusable. Any denial on these grounds, except for the most clear cut cases, would be so easy to appeal.

I wonder if they purposefully worded the law as such to give themselves liability protection. So for example you want a gun and they say no because you have violent animus, then you sue and win but later use the gun to hurt someone they can wash their hands and say they tried to deny the gun so don't blame them. That wouldn't surprise me in this litigious heavy culture we have turned into.

is the boner subjective or objective?

Erective 
 

State law doesn't say you need a current handgun safety course to get your CCW, but the chiefs rules is.

State law doesn't say you need a current handgun safety course to get your CCW, but the chiefs rules is.

I hope the cheif's rules get taken to court. Depending on how the SCOTUS rules on one of their cases of administrative agencies making up and enforcing their own rules there would be strong grounds to invalidate some of the chief's rules.

This is the part I am concerned about.
It was buried on page 34 of a 37 page document.
It requires firearms instructors to be counselors on mental health.



Subchapter 3 Instructor verifications and training certifications 
 §21-15-29  Instructor verifications.

(a) Each firearm certification program for Permits and each firearm certification program for Licenses shall be led by an instructor verified by the State of Hawaii or the Honolulu Police Department. An application for verification as an instructor shall be rejected if the applicant is legally prohibited from possessing or handling firearms. 
 
(b) An applicant may be verified to conduct trainings for Permits to Acquire, and may also be verified to conduct trainings for Licenses to Carry, but §21-15-29 34  an applicant shall demonstrate the required qualifications for each before being so verified.  Verification as an instructor for Permits to Acquire alone does not authorize the applicant to conduct trainings for Licenses to Carry, and verification as an instructor for Licenses to Carry alone does not authorize the applicant to conduct trainings for Permits to Acquire.   
 
(c) Absent a verification process formalized by the State of Hawaii, the Training Division shall develop clear and objective criteria to verify qualifications of applicants to become instructors, with verification to be valid for two years.  Such clear and objective criteria shall require the applicant to provide evidence of the following: (1) Valid, in-person certifications by nationally recognized firearms manufacturers or organizations, demonstrating the applicant’s qualifications to use a firearm proficiently and safely and to educate others regarding the same. (2) The applicant’s ability to provide reliable certifications regarding trainees’ qualifications to the Firearms Unit.  An applicant shall be disqualified if the applicant was previously convicted of any criminal offense involving dishonesty or fraud, or if the applicant was previously found liable in any civil court for any act involving dishonesty or fraud.  (3) For applicants seeking verification to provide training for Permits to Acquire, the applicant’s qualifications to teach others regarding mental health, suicide prevention, and domestic violence issues associated with firearms and firearm violence.  The applicant shall satisfy at least one of the following: (A)  If the applicant intends to conduct this portion of the training, the applicant shall submit evidence of the applicant’s education and experience in each field.  (B) If a physician, psychologist, social worker, or other health care professional licensed in Hawaii and with training and experience in these issues intends to conduct this portion of the training, the applicant shall provide the name, contact information, and qualifications of the person conducting each of these portions. (C) If the applicant intends to use one or more videos for this portion of the training, the applicant shall submit information on each video to be used. (4) For applicants seeking verification to provide training for Licenses to Carry, the applicant’s qualifications to teach others regarding the law in Hawaii on self-defense and use of force, including the requirements of chapters 134 and 703, Hawaii Revised Statutes.   §21-15-29 35  (A)  The applicant may conduct this portion of the training, in which case the applicant shall submit evidence of the applicant’s qualifications to provide this training. (B) Alternatively, an active attorney in good standing with the Hawaii State Bar Association may conduct this portion of the training, in which case the applicant shall provide the name, contact information, and Hawaii State Bar Association JD number.  (C) The applicant shall also provide a copy of the written examination to be used. (d) As used in this section and in section 21-15-30, “applicant” means the person seeking to be verified as an instructor, “instructor” means verified instructor, and “trainee” means the person seeking training to obtain a Permit to Acquire or a License to Carry.  [Eff and comp             ] (Auth: HRS § 134-9; RCH § 6-1604(d)) (Imp: HRS §§ 134-2, 134-7, 134-9)   

This is the part I am concerned about.
It was buried on page 34 of a 37 page document.
It requires firearms instructors to be counselors on mental health.



Subchapter 3 Instructor verifications and training certifications 
 §21-15-29  Instructor verifications.

(a) Each firearm certification program for Permits and each firearm certification program for Licenses shall be led by an instructor verified by the State of Hawaii or the Honolulu Police Department. An application for verification as an instructor shall be rejected if the applicant is legally prohibited from possessing or handling firearms. 
 
(b) An applicant may be verified to conduct trainings for Permits to Acquire, and may also be verified to conduct trainings for Licenses to Carry, but §21-15-29 34  an applicant shall demonstrate the required qualifications for each before being so verified.  Verification as an instructor for Permits to Acquire alone does not authorize the applicant to conduct trainings for Licenses to Carry, and verification as an instructor for Licenses to Carry alone does not authorize the applicant to conduct trainings for Permits to Acquire.   
 
(c) Absent a verification process formalized by the State of Hawaii, the Training Division shall develop clear and objective criteria to verify qualifications of applicants to become instructors, with verification to be valid for two years.  Such clear and objective criteria shall require the applicant to provide evidence of the following: (1) Valid, in-person certifications by nationally recognized firearms manufacturers or organizations, demonstrating the applicant’s qualifications to use a firearm proficiently and safely and to educate others regarding the same. (2) The applicant’s ability to provide reliable certifications regarding trainees’ qualifications to the Firearms Unit.  An applicant shall be disqualified if the applicant was previously convicted of any criminal offense involving dishonesty or fraud, or if the applicant was previously found liable in any civil court for any act involving dishonesty or fraud.  (3) For applicants seeking verification to provide training for Permits to Acquire, the applicant’s qualifications to teach others regarding mental health, suicide prevention, and domestic violence issues associated with firearms and firearm violence.  The applicant shall satisfy at least one of the following: (A)  If the applicant intends to conduct this portion of the training, the applicant shall submit evidence of the applicant’s education and experience in each field.  (B) If a physician, psychologist, social worker, or other health care professional licensed in Hawaii and with training and experience in these issues intends to conduct this portion of the training, the applicant shall provide the name, contact information, and qualifications of the person conducting each of these portions. (C) If the applicant intends to use one or more videos for this portion of the training, the applicant shall submit information on each video to be used. (4) For applicants seeking verification to provide training for Licenses to Carry, the applicant’s qualifications to teach others regarding the law in Hawaii on self-defense and use of force, including the requirements of chapters 134 and 703, Hawaii Revised Statutes.   §21-15-29 35  (A)  The applicant may conduct this portion of the training, in which case the applicant shall submit evidence of the applicant’s qualifications to provide this training. (B) Alternatively, an active attorney in good standing with the Hawaii State Bar Association may conduct this portion of the training, in which case the applicant shall provide the name, contact information, and Hawaii State Bar Association JD number.  (C) The applicant shall also provide a copy of the written examination to be used. (d) As used in this section and in section 21-15-30, “applicant” means the person seeking to be verified as an instructor, “instructor” means verified instructor, and “trainee” means the person seeking training to obtain a Permit to Acquire or a License to Carry.  [Eff and comp             ] (Auth: HRS § 134-9; RCH § 6-1604(d)) (Imp: HRS §§ 134-2, 134-7, 134-9)

Almost feels like the Firearms instructor will carry the responsibility of liability in case one of his/her students go rogue.

Also section B talks about the qualification of Permit to acquire and License to carry instructors.  Saying a PTA instructor doesn't necessarily qualify him as a LTC instructor and a LTC instructor is not necessarily qualified as a PTA instructor

Now why the hell would that be?  An LTC instructor should be well trained in all aspects of gun safety and handling.  Can someone explain?  Maybe I'm missing something.

HPD, the County, and this banana republik sure knows how to make mountains out of molehills.

Almost feels like the Firearms instructor will carry the responsibility of liability in case one of his/her students go rogue.

Also section B talks about the qualification of Permit to acquire and License to carry instructors.  Saying a PTA instructor doesn't necessarily qualify him as a LTC instructor and a LTC instructor is not necessarily qualified as a PTA instructor

Now why the hell would that be?  An LTC instructor should be well trained in all aspects of gun safety and handling.  Can someone explain?  Maybe I'm missing something.

HPD, the County, and this banana republik sure knows how to make mountains out of molehills.

They will, which is why HIFICO brought it up about the mental health stuff.  What's more funny is they changed the HRS (law) so a CCW instructor can no longer certify themselves.  They did this because at least 2 that I know of did this and were granted their CCW's.

This is the part I am concerned about.
It was buried on page 34 of a 37 page document.
It requires firearms instructors to be counselors on mental health.



Subchapter 3 Instructor verifications and training certifications 
 §21-15-29  Instructor verifications.

(a) Each firearm certification program for Permits and each firearm certification program for Licenses shall be led by an instructor verified by the State of Hawaii or the Honolulu Police Department. An application for verification as an instructor shall be rejected if the applicant is legally prohibited from possessing or handling firearms. 
 
(b) An applicant may be verified to conduct trainings for Permits to Acquire, and may also be verified to conduct trainings for Licenses to Carry, but §21-15-29 34  an applicant shall demonstrate the required qualifications for each before being so verified.  Verification as an instructor for Permits to Acquire alone does not authorize the applicant to conduct trainings for Licenses to Carry, and verification as an instructor for Licenses to Carry alone does not authorize the applicant to conduct trainings for Permits to Acquire.   
 
(c) Absent a verification process formalized by the State of Hawaii, the Training Division shall develop clear and objective criteria to verify qualifications of applicants to become instructors, with verification to be valid for two years.  Such clear and objective criteria shall require the applicant to provide evidence of the following: (1) Valid, in-person certifications by nationally recognized firearms manufacturers or organizations, demonstrating the applicant’s qualifications to use a firearm proficiently and safely and to educate others regarding the same. (2) The applicant’s ability to provide reliable certifications regarding trainees’ qualifications to the Firearms Unit.  An applicant shall be disqualified if the applicant was previously convicted of any criminal offense involving dishonesty or fraud, or if the applicant was previously found liable in any civil court for any act involving dishonesty or fraud.  (3) For applicants seeking verification to provide training for Permits to Acquire, the applicant’s qualifications to teach others regarding mental health, suicide prevention, and domestic violence issues associated with firearms and firearm violence.  The applicant shall satisfy at least one of the following: (A)  If the applicant intends to conduct this portion of the training, the applicant shall submit evidence of the applicant’s education and experience in each field.  (B) If a physician, psychologist, social worker, or other health care professional licensed in Hawaii and with training and experience in these issues intends to conduct this portion of the training, the applicant shall provide the name, contact information, and qualifications of the person conducting each of these portions. (C) If the applicant intends to use one or more videos for this portion of the training, the applicant shall submit information on each video to be used. (4) For applicants seeking verification to provide training for Licenses to Carry, the applicant’s qualifications to teach others regarding the law in Hawaii on self-defense and use of force, including the requirements of chapters 134 and 703, Hawaii Revised Statutes.   §21-15-29 35  (A)  The applicant may conduct this portion of the training, in which case the applicant shall submit evidence of the applicant’s qualifications to provide this training. (B) Alternatively, an active attorney in good standing with the Hawaii State Bar Association may conduct this portion of the training, in which case the applicant shall provide the name, contact information, and Hawaii State Bar Association JD number.  (C) The applicant shall also provide a copy of the written examination to be used. (d) As used in this section and in section 21-15-30, “applicant” means the person seeking to be verified as an instructor, “instructor” means verified instructor, and “trainee” means the person seeking training to obtain a Permit to Acquire or a License to Carry.  [Eff and comp             ] (Auth: HRS § 134-9; RCH § 6-1604(d)) (Imp: HRS §§ 134-2, 134-7, 134-9)

But, that can't be right.  EEF posted that instructors might only have to hand out the Suicide Hotline phone number to satisfy this part of the training.

EEF is never wrong.

     A few days ago this section read something like Instructor(s) must teach all of the required subjects EXCEPT "Mental health"
I also ponder why ''students'' who wish to become ''applicants'' are now referred to as "Trainees".
LTC is not a training class !

This is the part I am concerned about.
It was buried on page 34 of a 37 page document.
It requires firearms instructors to be counselors on mental health.



Subchapter 3 Instructor verifications and training certifications 
 §21-15-29  Instructor verifications.

(a) Each firearm certification program for Permits and each firearm certification program for Licenses shall be led by an instructor verified by the State of Hawaii or the Honolulu Police Department. An application for verification as an instructor shall be rejected if the applicant is legally prohibited from possessing or handling firearms. 
 
(b) An applicant may be verified to conduct trainings for Permits to Acquire, and may also be verified to conduct trainings for Licenses to Carry, but §21-15-29 34  an applicant shall demonstrate the required qualifications for each before being so verified.  Verification as an instructor for Permits to Acquire alone does not authorize the applicant to conduct trainings for Licenses to Carry, and verification as an instructor for Licenses to Carry alone does not authorize the applicant to conduct trainings for Permits to Acquire.   
 
(c) Absent a verification process formalized by the State of Hawaii, the Training Division shall develop clear and objective criteria to verify qualifications of applicants to become instructors, with verification to be valid for two years.  Such clear and objective criteria shall require the applicant to provide evidence of the following: (1) Valid, in-person certifications by nationally recognized firearms manufacturers or organizations, demonstrating the applicant’s qualifications to use a firearm proficiently and safely and to educate others regarding the same. (2) The applicant’s ability to provide reliable certifications regarding trainees’ qualifications to the Firearms Unit.  An applicant shall be disqualified if the applicant was previously convicted of any criminal offense involving dishonesty or fraud, or if the applicant was previously found liable in any civil court for any act involving dishonesty or fraud.  (3) For applicants seeking verification to provide training for Permits to Acquire, the applicant’s qualifications to teach others regarding mental health, suicide prevention, and domestic violence issues associated with firearms and firearm violence.  The applicant shall satisfy at least one of the following: (A)  If the applicant intends to conduct this portion of the training, the applicant shall submit evidence of the applicant’s education and experience in each field.  (B) If a physician, psychologist, social worker, or other health care professional licensed in Hawaii and with training and experience in these issues intends to conduct this portion of the training, the applicant shall provide the name, contact information, and qualifications of the person conducting each of these portions. (C) If the applicant intends to use one or more videos for this portion of the training, the applicant shall submit information on each video to be used. (4) For applicants seeking verification to provide training for Licenses to Carry, the applicant’s qualifications to teach others regarding the law in Hawaii on self-defense and use of force, including the requirements of chapters 134 and 703, Hawaii Revised Statutes.   §21-15-29 35  (A)  The applicant may conduct this portion of the training, in which case the applicant shall submit evidence of the applicant’s qualifications to provide this training. (B) Alternatively, an active attorney in good standing with the Hawaii State Bar Association may conduct this portion of the training, in which case the applicant shall provide the name, contact information, and Hawaii State Bar Association JD number.  (C) The applicant shall also provide a copy of the written examination to be used. (d) As used in this section and in section 21-15-30, “applicant” means the person seeking to be verified as an instructor, “instructor” means verified instructor, and “trainee” means the person seeking training to obtain a Permit to Acquire or a License to Carry.  [Eff and comp             ] (Auth: HRS § 134-9; RCH § 6-1604(d)) (Imp: HRS §§ 134-2, 134-7, 134-9)