Another Shooting today (Friday)- Parking lot of Bank of Hawaii Pearlridge (Read 13630 times)

changemyoil66

Re: Another Shooting today (Friday)- Parking lot of Bank of Hawaii Pearlridge
« Reply #60 on: December 26, 2023, 09:11:54 AM »
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some good and interesting ideas there...

Whose budget does this come out from?

If our lawmakers were serious about DV, then the states annual budget.  But we all know they're not serious about DV as they voted to disarm the victims with sensitive places law.  And donations/resources from MDA/ET/Brady, etc...

oldfart

Re: Another Shooting today (Friday)- Parking lot of Bank of Hawaii Pearlridge
« Reply #61 on: December 26, 2023, 09:21:44 AM »
If our lawmakers were serious about DV, then the states annual budget.  But we all know they're not serious about DV as they voted to disarm the victims with sensitive places law.  And donations/resources from MDA/ET/Brady, etc...
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...and this is why I hate politics
What, Me Worry?

zippz

Re: Another Shooting today (Friday)- Parking lot of Bank of Hawaii Pearlridge
« Reply #62 on: December 26, 2023, 07:02:52 PM »
If anti 2a orgs like MDA, ET, and Giffords were serious about gun issues, then they would pump $ into the mental evals that you mention. On call professionals ready to come on site to make a diagnoses.  I rememeber the Ross store knife guy in his underwear was deemed competent after the incident and later killed someone.

...

The problem would be that if the they own the home, then now the government is removing it from  them without due process.  But if they ask which one wants to stay at a hotel, then it would be voluntary.  But what happens if neither wants to go to the hotel?  This is just a thought that took 1 min to think of, so it's not like I thought about it hard.
[/quote

As progressives, those groups believe the gun is at fault.  The person is innocent because it wasn't their fault.  Systematic inequality, patriarch, racism, etc caused them to do it.  You never see progressives blame the criminal unless they're white male with money.  They also don't want people incarcerated or committed.  This is why they don't talk about mental health.

As far as leaving the home, it's almost always the man even if the woman doesn't own the home.  There's a government safehouse for domestic violence victims, but they have to be willing to testify against the abuser and live under the rules of the safehouse.  So a lot of victims decline to stay there.

zippz

Re: Another Shooting today (Friday)- Parking lot of Bank of Hawaii Pearlridge
« Reply #63 on: December 26, 2023, 07:34:21 PM »
They could've been held without bail and gotten mental health treatment.  But there's a lot that needs to be fixed in the system.

9th circuit judges. Too liberal and make it too hard to prosecute, commit, and punish criminals.  Half of the conservative judges are only mildly conservative.  Trump has to come back and fill more seats.

Prison and Jail space - need more of it so criminals actually serve their sentences and we can prosecute more criminals and not have the revolving door.  Inmates have a choice between rehab or hard labor.

Prosecutors, judges, LEOs, public defenders.  Hire a lot more.  Bump up their pay a lot.

Mental health/rehab - greatly increase funding for it.  Hire more workers and build more centers to house people.

Crackdown on drug abuse/sellers - the addictive and mind destroying ones like ice that cause mental health problems.

Societal - Get rid of the progressive mindset.  Promote good parenting, hard work, and morals.  individual responsibility.  Strength in adversity.  Community support.

oldfart

Re: Another Shooting today (Friday)- Parking lot of Bank of Hawaii Pearlridge
« Reply #64 on: December 26, 2023, 07:52:32 PM »
Murder-suicides are so common.
If it were so easy to fix, it would have been fixed already.
What, Me Worry?

QUIETShooter

Re: Another Shooting today (Friday)- Parking lot of Bank of Hawaii Pearlridge
« Reply #65 on: December 26, 2023, 08:05:20 PM »
I think it's pretty obvious (except for the bleeding heart liberals with a death hold on the state) that an overhaul on the justice system is needed.

To do that we gotta drain the swamp at the State Capitol.  Start at the 5th floor then work down.

Everybody there in that building as soon as elected only worries about getting elected again.
Sometimes you gotta know when to save your bullets.

oldfart

Re: Another Shooting today (Friday)- Parking lot of Bank of Hawaii Pearlridge
« Reply #66 on: December 26, 2023, 08:38:39 PM »
I think it's pretty obvious (except for the bleeding heart liberals with a death hold on the state) that an overhaul on the justice system is needed.
...
soft judges make hard criminals
What, Me Worry?

changemyoil66

Re: Another Shooting today (Friday)- Parking lot of Bank of Hawaii Pearlridge
« Reply #67 on: December 27, 2023, 08:37:57 AM »
...
soft judges make hard criminals

The end game is so they can have reasons to take the 2A away.  This is their plan.

oldfart

Re: Another Shooting today (Friday)- Parking lot of Bank of Hawaii Pearlridge
« Reply #68 on: December 27, 2023, 09:17:52 AM »
The end game is so they can have reasons to take the 2A away.  This is their plan.
==========
I was looking at the news reports about this particular murder.
I did not see any people complaining about too many guns and how anybody can go to walmart and buy a 357 magnum.
Did I miss something?
What, Me Worry?

changemyoil66

Re: Another Shooting today (Friday)- Parking lot of Bank of Hawaii Pearlridge
« Reply #69 on: December 27, 2023, 09:45:12 AM »
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I was looking at the news reports about this particular murder.
I did not see any people complaining about too many guns and how anybody can go to walmart and buy a 357 magnum.
Did I miss something?

I'm surprised too that they're not blaming the gun. Maybe it's because HPD missed 1 when confiscating all guns he was supposedly to have.

pacwire

Re: Another Shooting today (Friday)- Parking lot of Bank of Hawaii Pearlridge
« Reply #70 on: December 27, 2023, 01:45:58 PM »

"I'm surprised too that they're not blaming the gun. Maybe it's because HPD missed 1 when confiscating all guns he was supposedly to have."

Per HPD he ONLY had Five Firearms registered to him.  Thus SSD (SWAT) collected and Confirmed they got what was registered to him.

I just hope the gun used wasn't registered to someone else (maybe a friend)....hmmm

zippz

Re: Another Shooting today (Friday)- Parking lot of Bank of Hawaii Pearlridge
« Reply #71 on: December 27, 2023, 02:18:52 PM »
I just hope the gun used wasn't registered to someone else (maybe a friend)....hmmm

Or gun was built from parts and the gun store sued under the new firearms industry liability law.

changemyoil66

Re: Another Shooting today (Friday)- Parking lot of Bank of Hawaii Pearlridge
« Reply #72 on: December 27, 2023, 03:11:34 PM »
"I'm surprised too that they're not blaming the gun. Maybe it's because HPD missed 1 when confiscating all guns he was supposedly to have."

Per HPD he ONLY had Five Firearms registered to him.  Thus SSD (SWAT) collected and Confirmed they got what was registered to him.

I just hope the gun used wasn't registered to someone else (maybe a friend)....hmmm

It would be illegal to lend a handgun to someone else. You can only lend a rifle or shotgun to someone for X days.

Flapp_Jackson

Re: Another Shooting today (Friday)- Parking lot of Bank of Hawaii Pearlridge
« Reply #73 on: December 27, 2023, 06:33:13 PM »
It would be illegal to lend a handgun to someone else. You can only lend a rifle or shotgun to someone for X days.

if a former chief of police says it's feasible to claim you lost your gun in a chicken fight or other gambling situation, then it's logical to assume there's the other party who WON that gun.

Maybe he was the winner that night at the "fights", and his prize was an unregistered, untraceable handgun?
The reasonable man adapts himself to the world;
the unreasonable one persists in trying to adapt the world to himself.
Therefore, all progress depends on the unreasonable man.
-- George Bernard Shaw

eyeeatingfish

Re: Another Shooting today (Friday)- Parking lot of Bank of Hawaii Pearlridge
« Reply #74 on: December 29, 2023, 09:34:41 PM »
If anti 2a orgs like MDA, ET, and Giffords were serious about gun issues, then they would pump $ into the mental evals that you mention. On call professionals ready to come on site to make a diagnoses.  I rememeber the Ross store knife guy in his underwear was deemed competent after the incident and later killed someone.

Maybe what should be done is a new law:

Someone who makes an accusation gets an almost instant CCW, HPD provided firearm training, and they can bypass the PTA 2 week wait.  Also added in is the other party is ordered to stay away and if they do come in contact, if they get shot by the filer, then it's on them.  Also immunity from civil liability.  If they need something from the petitioner, then send a friend or family member to pick it up or call HPD to assist.  This way there's no confusion or excuse like they needed to get something from the home they both live in.  At the same time, provide a hotel for the respondent or the petitioner. 1 should stay in a hotel.

The problem would be that if the they own the home, then now the government is removing it from  them without due process.  But if they ask which one wants to stay at a hotel, then it would be voluntary.  But what happens if neither wants to go to the hotel?  This is just a thought that took 1 min to think of, so it's not like I thought about it hard.



I think it is entirely possible that the MDA, ET, etc. are just emotional and misguided. That does not mean they aren't serious though. People seriously advocate for things all the time based on a misunderstanding or lack of understanding. I do think they are negligent in their narrow focus on firearms alone.

In a normal TRO/RO situation the respondent can call for a police escort to retrieve belongings and police go and stand by while the person gets what they need.  The hotel idea is interesting, especially since a lot of DV shelters do not accept males. Making someone leave a home for even just a month does place a significant financial burden upon them. Who would pick up the tab though, taxpayers? If the home is co-owned in a marriage situation and the TRO is converted into an RO that can become very financially difficult because until a divorce judge orders the home sold the mortgage still has to be paid. Messy divorces are no joke.

I like the idea of an expedited firearm permit for someone claiming their ex is so dangerous they need a court order. It lends credibility to the process.

eyeeatingfish

Re: Another Shooting today (Friday)- Parking lot of Bank of Hawaii Pearlridge
« Reply #75 on: December 29, 2023, 09:46:16 PM »
I don't think you understand our justice system very well.

Even if the wife filed a criminal complaint against her husband, due process requires an arraignment, specified charges based on sufficient probable cause and evidence, and more than likely he'll be released with or without bail to await trial for who knows how long?

In the meantime, a TRO is the only immediate protection (and I say that knowing it's not really protection) that's available from the system.

So, even if they arrested him and tried to hold him, the system crawls at a snail's pace.  The system also must be concerned with the rights of the accused -- including the right to be free on bail if the court decides he needs to maintain his employment, etc.

Often the court (judge) will issue the TRO as an immediate remedy until the trial (it's called Temporary Restraining Order for a reason).  If, after the case is tried, the court decides he's still a threat, they can issue a Permanent Restraining Order.  From my experience and readings, restraining orders are civil decrees from the court even though they are often issued as a result of criminal behavior.  It's only when an RO is violated that it becomes a criminal issue (criminal contempt of court -- ask me how i know :geekdanc:).

Restraining orders are nothing more than trip wires that signal to the police they can now arrest him if/when he violates it.  It's like a condition of release -- stay away from her, or we will lock you up.

Basically they are giving him the opportunity to continue his attack/harassment with the hope that the threat of being jailed for violating the TRO is enough to stop him.


 ::)
If the wife filed a criminal complaint officers would go out and try to arrest the husband. Sometimes they can be conferred with the prosecutors and a warrant issuedf without an arrest but people are arrested and charged without first having an arraignment. 

You are correct that temporary restraining orders, restraining orders, and protective orders are civil procedures and criminal charges only come into play when someone is accused of violating the order. This has some advantages but also some disadvantages for the petitioner.

It is in no way a perfect system to deal with this issue but there really is no such thing as a perfect answer to this issue either.

eyeeatingfish

Re: Another Shooting today (Friday)- Parking lot of Bank of Hawaii Pearlridge
« Reply #76 on: December 29, 2023, 09:50:20 PM »
==========
I was looking at the news reports about this particular murder.
I did not see any people complaining about too many guns and how anybody can go to walmart and buy a 357 magnum.
Did I miss something?

I think that in this type of case the presence of the gun really made no difference, he would have killed her with whatever he could find. Sometimes the easy access to a firearm plays a role in whether a murder occurs I think but not always. Remember the killing in Kailua over a decade ago? The husband/BF beat the woman to death with a rifle or shotgun. Either it broke or jammed but it became basically a blunt instrument and it worked.