Is this bill going to go anywhere?
 https://www.capitol.hawaii.gov/session/measure_indiv.aspx?billtype=SB&billnumber=2703&year=2024
No person shall sell ammunition for any firearm to any person unless: (1) The person presents a valid firearm registration pursuant to section 134-3, together with a government- issued identification; and (2) The caliber of ammunition is compatible with the person's firearm that is registered pursuant to section 134-3.


I read it and it made me think of some questions I don't know the answers to.

1) How are "multi-caliber" guns registered in Hawaii, what are you supposed to put on the registration form? (If you have an AR lower or AUG under this law, would you be allowed to purchase any ammo that somebody makes an upper or barrel for?)

2) If I had a gun that I could change calibers on, like say I had a Glock 29 in 10mm and changed it over to .40 S&W by changing the slide and whatnot, am I supposed to tell the police department about that? Would I get in trouble if they somehow realized that my 10mm pistol was no longer a 10mm?

3) My understanding is that Maui PD will register pistols in the names of each of a married couple, but that they won't do so for long guns. Is this true for all islands?

The bill is dead as it missed it's deadlines.  Check out the HIFICO website, they have a list of the bills and their status.

I understand the bill is dead, but could anybody elucidate me on my three questions above? 

Your questions are getting into the weeds -- the mechanics -- of how these bills would work if passed,

The higher level viewpoint is this: people who can't purchase/possess or use a firearm face systems designed to prevent them from acquiring a firearm.  Some places have many "safeguards" designed to keep prohibited individuals from buying guns -- safeguards above and beyond the NICS background check (I can think of one at least!).

However, those same people who can't own guns can go to any store that stocks ammo, or to any online retailer that ships to their location, and purchase effectively as much ammo as they can pay for with no questions asked.  While the ATF treats guns and ammo the same for purposes of prohibited person in possession, the same level of tracking for ammo is nowhere close to what it is for firearms.  If a prohibited person is found in possession of ammo, it's the same as them having a gun as far as the law is concerned.

The implication is obvious: if someone has an illegal gun, then the ammo for it needs to be restricted so they have a harder time getting it.

The tracking and vetting of ammo sales is a daunting endeavor.  Think about how massive the retail gun industry is.  Then compare that to the amount of ammo each person buys.  Whether for training classes, range practice, home defense or just stockpiling when it's available and affordable, the majority of gun owners only go through that purchase goat rope (vetting process) once: when they buy their gun -- that vetting may include mandatory training, background checks, fingerprinting, or whatever else your state might require.

But, the logistics in doing the same "controlling" of ammo would involve multiple times more time and resources.   

Because it is such a massive and complicated problem, of course the politicians, rather than try to wrap their heads around all the details, put out a simplistic solution:  no legally owned firearm, no ammo sales.

Coming up with a simple solution for a complex problem is usually not a solution at all.  It just makes the problem more complicated.

My opinion as to why they are trying this tactic is they are tacitly admitting they can't do anything about people who have guns illegally.  Look at how many stories of gun crimes have been in the news recently where the perps are under 21.  We have laws saying they can't legally possess handguns, and yet government is powerless to prevent them,

Ammo control is the next step.. It was tried in 1968 with the Firearms Control act, but most of the act's ammo control measures were repealed in the Firearm Owners' Protection Act of 1986.  Only federally licensed dealers could sell ammo to the public, records of all sales had to be kept, and interstates sales were banned.  All of that existed for 18 years, and yet criminals could still feed their hardware during that  period.

There are many states already using or trying to pass similar laws.  Most have failed.  The only ammo control laws that aren't too complicated are taxes on ammo.  WA state has a 2%-5% excise tax per bullet.  Other states like CA have also tried to pass ammo taxes and failed.

If you still want to hash out the "what ifs" and "how comes", I doubt you'll get the answers you seek.   You can't find logic in a bill that's based on flawed reasoning.

Disregarding the bill entirely...

1) If you register a firearm that can fire multiple calibers, under current policy, what are you supposed to put on the registration form? Is an AR "223" or is it "multi"?

2) If, under current policy, you changed a gun like a Glock from one caliber to another, so the registration says "10mm" but it is now chambered in .40, are you supposed to tell the PD? Could you get in trouble for that?

3) As things are now, does any PD in Hawaii allow joint registration of long guns under spouses' names? Do they all allow joint registration of pistols?

you might want to make a new thread...

Disregarding the bill entirely...

1) If you register a firearm that can fire multiple calibers, under current policy, what are you supposed to put on the registration form? Is an AR "223" or is it "multi"?

2) If, under current policy, you changed a gun like a Glock from one caliber to another, so the registration says "10mm" but it is now chambered in .40, are you supposed to tell the PD? Could you get in trouble for that?

3) As things are now, does any PD in Hawaii allow joint registration of long guns under spouses' names? Do they all allow joint registration of pistols?

If that law were to pass, it would provide a backdoor method of gun registration.
Suppose my uncle had a WW2 Garand which would not be registered.
He would not be able to buy ammo for it.

Disregarding the bill entirely...

1) If you register a firearm that can fire multiple calibers, under current policy, what are you supposed to put on the registration form? Is an AR "223" or is it "multi"?

2) If, under current policy, you changed a gun like a Glock from one caliber to another, so the registration says "10mm" but it is now chambered in .40, are you supposed to tell the PD? Could you get in trouble for that?

3) As things are now, does any PD in Hawaii allow joint registration of long guns under spouses' names? Do they all allow joint registration of pistols?

You want to disregard the subject of your thread?  Okay -- it's your thread.

In my experience, as long as you don't lie on the application, you can put whatever you want on it. 

I've registered a rifle that was sold with 3 different caliber barrels: .22LR, .22WM and .17HMR.  When I took it to the police station for registration, I purposely installed the .17HMR barrel, because I knew the previous owner registered it as .22LR.  Nobody cared.  As long as the rifle matches the registration, less work for them.  I also "neglected" to include the other 2 calibers on the form.  For all they know, I could have purchased more barrels after the rifle, and I can also sell them and only keep the one I like.  They don't track non-firearms, which those barrels are.

You can buy conversion kits for pistols like the P320.  Multiple calibers, multiple sizes, multiple colors, etc.  Just drop in your modular trigger group, and your gun just had caliber-change surgery!  The conversion kits are not firearms, so they aren't required to be registered.  Whatever configuration you intend to use the most is the best course normally, but it's your choice.

The cynic would argue that capability can interfere with law enforcement and investigatory aspects of registration.  If HPD is looking for all .223/5.56 caliber rifle owners to scan for suspects, and you registered yours as 300 Blackout, it would take a person knowledgable in firearms to add that, and all other calibers an AR-15 might use in order to produce the proper reports.  That's not your concern.

The realist would point out that registrations are rarely -- if ever -- the reason all solved gun crimes are closed.  So, the point above is moot.

Answer to both #1 and #2, based on the above, would be:
whichever caliber the firearm is presently configured to use ...
unless you want to change the law and require re-registration every time you change calibers.

Answer #3 is "yes," for any legal firearm.  Both applicants must complete the minimum-requirements to register a firearm on their own.  Also, if you bought the rifle under your own name a year ago and didn't renew your long gun permit, but now want to simply "add" your wife's name to it, sorry.  You have to go through the same steps again yourself simultaneously with your wife to change the registration as if it's a transfer.  With the changes in training classes and mental health evals, it's a bigger burden for the current owner than before.

HPD seems to believe only married couples are allowed, since they ask for your marriage license, but i don't think that's a law -- just their belief/policy.  They like to make shit up.  Do they allow for unmarried couples who live together for decades and have kids together?  Do they allow for other family members (parents and their children) to co-own a firearm?  We never know what they allow until someone posts what HPD did or did not allow.  And as usual, YMMV depending on who's assisting you when you show up.

FYI, the P320 modularity was developed for the most part to market in countries that have a limit on the number of firearms one can own.  Registering one firearm with the capability of having a .22LR for practice (especially with new shooters and to save ammo costs), .357 Magnum full-size for home defense or when hunting, and 9mm compact for concealed carry would be a strong selling point in those areas.

The bill is dead.

But since u would have to own the gun, when u reg an AR, u have to have them list every caliber it could possible fire. Same for certain glocks.


IMO, thats too much work for HPD.

Plus when the bill had a hearing in the past, the movie industry rep and 808 gun club showed up to testify against it.

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Disregarding the bill entirely...

1) If you register a firearm that can fire multiple calibers, under current policy, what are you supposed to put on the registration form? Is an AR "223" or is it "multi"?

2) If, under current policy, you changed a gun like a Glock from one caliber to another, so the registration says "10mm" but it is now chambered in .40, are you supposed to tell the PD? Could you get in trouble for that?

3) As things are now, does any PD in Hawaii allow joint registration of long guns under spouses' names? Do they all allow joint registration of pistols?

1) When you register a AR lower receiver, where the receiver is stamped "multi", HPD doesnt care. they do not list a caliber. under the application and registration it is listed as "receiver only". When you used to do this at the window in person, they would tell you to bring the gun back when you are finished with it so that they can complete the details on the registration, such as caliber and barrel length. If you register an AR and it is complete and has a barrel, the registration lists the caliber on the barrel.

2) gray area, like I mentioned in 1, at the window they would sometimes tell you to bring in the rifle. Im sure if you asked his question at the window now, they would tell you to bring in the rifle so they can update the registration. Can you get in trouble? maybe if the firearm was used in a crime or other situation where the physical firearm had to be inspected and cross referenced with the database. what kind of trouble? I dunno, probly a lot of finger wagging and stern talk. maybe? Im not aware of any statute regarding that situation, except for ccw.

3) dunno, I would assume so but im not married and have never looked into joint registration. I know that the workers will sometimes discourage anything that requires them to do more work than necessary, could be one of those things. In practical terms, joint registration of long guns arent necessary since there are provisions allowing loaning and borrowing of firearms by people other than the registered owner.

1) When you register a AR lower receiver, where the receiver is stamped "multi", HPD doesnt care. they do not list a caliber. under the application and registration it is listed as "receiver only". When you used to do this at the window in person, they would tell you to bring the gun back when you are finished with it so that they can complete the details on the registration, such as caliber and barrel length. If you register an AR and it is complete and has a barrel, the registration lists the caliber on the barrel.

This is the trick if the law got passed.  You can buy any ammo with this registration whether it's 44 magnum, 380 auto, or 20mm.