These Trump supporters say US isn’t a democracy. And they’re okay with it (Read 13516 times)

macsak

eyeeatingfish

This debate is a giant nothing burger. We are a democracy and a republic. It is a bunch of tribalism creating division for nothing

macsak

isn't it specified in the federalist papers?
or maybe you are just adding nuance...

This debate is a giant nothing burger. We are a democracy and a republic. It is a bunch of tribalism creating division for nothing

Flapp_Jackson

isn't it specified in the federalist papers?
or maybe you are just adding nuance...

We are a nation comprised of individual states.  There's the representative republic that is the federal government, and there's the democracy of each state.

People seem to have a mental block when this question comes up.  All it takes is a fundamental understanding of the electoral college to see how states democratically select their slate of electors, and how the number of electors per state depends on the size of each state's population.

Trying to boil the US down to a single political label doesn't work.  You have to treat the states and the feds as two different animals.

The reasonable man adapts himself to the world;
the unreasonable one persists in trying to adapt the world to himself.
Therefore, all progress depends on the unreasonable man.
-- George Bernard Shaw

eyeeatingfish

isn't it specified in the federalist papers?
or maybe you are just adding nuance...

People are splitting hairs when they claim the USA isn't a democracy and there is no real benefit in doing so. What is the point in this? Trying to convince the soft heads that republicans are good and democrats are bad because democracy sounds like democrat?

I would argue that the most accurate phrase would be a constitutional democratic republic. Just saying a republic is insufficient, after all the USSR was a republic.

When you vote for a representative who then passes laws that is a democracy, more specifically a representative democracy. We have that, therefore saying we are not a democracy is wholly inaccurate.

hvybarrels

Democracy is two wolves and a sheep deciding what's for dinner.
Stop blaming lazy people. We didn’t do anything.

Flapp_Jackson

Democracy is two wolves and a sheep deciding what's for dinner.

Democracy is a synonym for "mob rule." 

Since when does the majority ever vote themselves less power and the minority more of it?
The reasonable man adapts himself to the world;
the unreasonable one persists in trying to adapt the world to himself.
Therefore, all progress depends on the unreasonable man.
-- George Bernard Shaw

macsak

so it's ok when you split hairs, but not ok when others do it?
right...

People are splitting hairs when they claim the USA isn't a democracy and there is no real benefit in doing so. What is the point in this? Trying to convince the soft heads that republicans are good and democrats are bad because democracy sounds like democrat?

I would argue that the most accurate phrase would be a constitutional democratic republic. Just saying a republic is insufficient, after all the USSR was a republic.

When you vote for a representative who then passes laws that is a democracy, more specifically a representative democracy. We have that, therefore saying we are not a democracy is wholly inaccurate.

changemyoil66



I would argue that the most accurate phrase would be a constitutional democratic republic.

You left out "on paper, I would argue...". Since HI violates the constitution every year and so do other states.

eyeeatingfish

so it's ok when you split hairs, but not ok when others do it?
right...

I am not splitting hairs, I am just explaining to address your question to me.

eyeeatingfish

You left out "on paper, I would argue...". Since HI violates the constitution every year and so do other states.

Every state and the federal government have violated the constitution at some point. Thats often how case law is made an unenumerated rights are solidified. Violating the constitution doesn't inherently mean we aren't a constitutional form of government.

changemyoil66

Every state and the federal government have violated the constitution at some point. Thats often how case law is made an unenumerated rights are solidified. Violating the constitution doesn't inherently mean we aren't a constitutional form of government.

Hi chooses to violate the constitution year after year. We aren't talking about 1 oopsie. I mean, it's not like reading what the 2A says is difficult. And with covid, the 1A.  I remember a few years ago, there were 47 anti 2a bills and zero bills to keep career criminals behind bars longer.

So would it be OK in your opinion if peoples rights were taken away, as long as they one day, maybe 10 years later, get their day in court? What if HI chose to take all guns away. It's all G right, cause someone will challenge it in court.

The point is, that there should be no or minimal "case law" because peoples rights shouldn't be violated as often in HI. Because IDK if you are aware, but the deck is stacked against the people. It cost big $ to file lawsuits. And what's harder is to find an attorney willing to take on said lawsuit. The state knows this, which is why they push the anti 2a bills year after year. Then their trump card is just change the law, so they don't have to pay much in attorney's fees or damages.  There is also zero legal consequences for politicians to take peoples rights away.  If someone had $10,000,000 to challenge HI's gun laws, I'll bet most of them will be removed.

But maybe you don't care as much, as you're protected if anti 2a laws get passed. Like if they banned semi auto rifles and standard cap rilfe mags, you don't have to worry unless you quit your job.  Sensitive places doesn't law doesn't apply to you. Baton law didn't apply to you because no one in your field was ever arrested for concealing a baton in HI.

Q

This debate is a giant nothing burger. We are a democracy and a republic. It is a bunch of tribalism creating division for nothing

A democracy is a government governed by unlimited majority rule, aka mob rule. Officials are elected by the people and laws are created solely by those in power and without limits.

A Republic is a form of democracy that is limited in the types of laws that can be created by some sort of charter, most commonly a constitution, that protects the rights of the citizenry from infringement by both the government and mob rule.

The U.S. is a Constitutional republic that maintains democratic tendencies with regards to elections and the influence of some laws. The U.S. is not a democracy.

Isn't it ironic, then, that the greatest antagonists to our rights are the same ones who refer to our form of government as a democracy and never mention Republic or constitutional Republic? Wonder why that is.

macsak

^this
i cannot wait for EEF to add nuance...

A democracy is a government governed by unlimited majority rule, aka mob rule. Officials are elected by the people and laws are created solely by those in power and without limits.

A Republic is a form of democracy that is limited in the types of laws that can be created by some sort of charter, most commonly a constitution, that protects the rights of the citizenry from infringement by both the government and mob rule.

The U.S. is a Constitutional republic that maintains democratic tendencies with regards to elections and the influence of some laws. The U.S. is not a democracy.

Isn't it ironic, then, that the greatest antagonists to our rights are the same ones who refer to our form of government as a democracy and never mention Republic or constitutional Republic? Wonder why that is.

macsak

Flapp_Jackson

The reasonable man adapts himself to the world;
the unreasonable one persists in trying to adapt the world to himself.
Therefore, all progress depends on the unreasonable man.
-- George Bernard Shaw

QUIETShooter

A democracy is a government governed by unlimited majority rule, aka mob rule. Officials are elected by the people and laws are created solely by those in power and without limits.

A Republic is a form of democracy that is limited in the types of laws that can be created by some sort of charter, most commonly a constitution, that protects the rights of the citizenry from infringement by both the government and mob rule.

The U.S. is a Constitutional republic that maintains democratic tendencies with regards to elections and the influence of some laws. The U.S. is not a democracy.

Isn't it ironic, then, that the greatest antagonists to our rights are the same ones who refer to our form of government as a democracy and never mention Republic or constitutional Republic? Wonder why that is.

Great explanation. :thumbsup:  I would have messed it up if I had to explain it.

The only explanation I can come up with for your last question in your post is because they are a mob.

And a mob rules.
Sometimes you gotta know when to save your bullets.

hvybarrels

I agree it is a nothing burger.

We are not a democracy we are a republic?

What is a republic?

A republic is a type of democracy.

What type of democracy?

A representative democracy.

What is a representative democracy?

A republic.

What does the GOP want?

A king.

Why do people trash democracy?

Because they want Trump to be king and for the United States to be more like Russia.




What

Reading this was like watching someone's brain fall out of their skull and go bouncing down the stairs
Stop blaming lazy people. We didn’t do anything.

ren

Deeds Not Words

macsak

please show me where in any of these videos or anywhere on this forum said that they want trump to be king...

I agree it is a nothing burger.

We are not a democracy we are a republic?

What is a republic?

A republic is a type of democracy.

What type of democracy?

A representative democracy.

What is a representative democracy?

A republic.

What does the GOP want?

A king.

Why do people trash democracy?

Because they want Trump to be king and for the United States to be more like Russia.




What