SWOOOOSSSHHH X2.  Here's a hint, violating someones rights can be done both on the criminal and civil level.

I never said otherwise.
 

What a sensitive snowflake!

If you know his post is off-topic, then you should have let him know, not reply with ore off-topic posts. 

A more mature person would simply tell him YOURSELF to return to the topic and not continue his hijack. 

Instead, you got your panties in a bunch because you got called out on it.

You are attributing emotion to my post that does not exist.

Sounds like you are the one upset I called you out for trolling. 

Would he be a flight risk? If he had just committed an unjustifiable murder then he would be a flight risk. He may also seek retaliation as well. However, neither of those two things have anything to do with his detention. If the charges were accepted then it could go into setting his bail higher but those two things are not factors in his initial detention.

I still have not seen how long he was detained before he was released but lets say it was close to the max of 48 hours for the sake of the discussion. If he was intoxicated by alcohol or some drug (legal or illegal) then the detective is already going to have to wait 12-24 hours to try and interview him. Also to give him a chance to rest after an event that would likely drain him physically and mentally it is good for the detective to wait. Then an interview could easily take a couple hours and that interview is going to open up other things that need to be investigated such as alibis that need to be interviewed. Then a polygraph might be administered.

On top of just those issues with the arrested person is all the other things that would need to get done before the detective would present the case to the prosecutors. Witness statements, additional witness statements, photos, hours of surveillance video, evidence processing, search warrants, communicate with the judge, paperwork, etc. The detective isn't going to make the call on a homicide case, they are going to take all the information they can gather and have the prosecutor review it and the prosecutor is going to determine whether there is enough to justify charging him with a crime.

You ask why not just release him early based off the initial assessment of the case, this would create problems if he ended up not having a justified self defense case.
Imagine you are a cop and show up to my home because I shot and killed someone in my yard. I tell you that this guy was breaking into my house and then came at me with a knife when I confronted him. You take my information down and let me leave because afterall, I was on my property and it looks like a clear case of self defense, innocent people shouldn't be stuck in jail just for defending themselves. So you have my info and I leave the scene. 12 hours later you find a neighbor's surveillance video that shows it wasn't a justified shooting but actually a murder. By that time I have already jumped on a plane and left the state/country.

Now if it were much more simple case then it would be much more possible to release someone quickly. If you were a cop and found me writing graffiti on a stop sign then the case would be very simple, take me to the station, book me, and set my bail. If you held me for 48 hours even if it only took you 2 hours then you would be opening up yourself to a lawsuit. With a homicide investigation they are using that full 48 hours in most cases except for short bits of sleep.

So was there a knife or not and where was it found?  Was there signs of a break in?  You left out the important details in your whataboutism. 

So, in your eye's, it's better to take away someones freedom in case they're guilty?

Would he be a flight risk? If he had just committed an unjustifiable murder then he would be a flight risk. He may also seek retaliation as well. However, neither of those two things have anything to do with his detention. If the charges were accepted then it could go into setting his bail higher but those two things are not factors in his initial detention.

I still have not seen how long he was detained before he was released but lets say it was close to the max of 48 hours for the sake of the discussion. If he was intoxicated by alcohol or some drug (legal or illegal) then the detective is already going to have to wait 12-24 hours to try and interview him. Also to give him a chance to rest after an event that would likely drain him physically and mentally it is good for the detective to wait. Then an interview could easily take a couple hours and that interview is going to open up other things that need to be investigated such as alibis that need to be interviewed. Then a polygraph might be administered.

On top of just those issues with the arrested person is all the other things that would need to get done before the detective would present the case to the prosecutors. Witness statements, additional witness statements, photos, hours of surveillance video, evidence processing, search warrants, communicate with the judge, paperwork, etc. The detective isn't going to make the call on a homicide case, they are going to take all the information they can gather and have the prosecutor review it and the prosecutor is going to determine whether there is enough to justify charging him with a crime.

You ask why not just release him early based off the initial assessment of the case, this would create problems if he ended up not having a justified self defense case.
Imagine you are a cop and show up to my home because I shot and killed someone in my yard. I tell you that this guy was breaking into my house and then came at me with a knife when I confronted him. You take my information down and let me leave because afterall, I was on my property and it looks like a clear case of self defense, innocent people shouldn't be stuck in jail just for defending themselves. So you have my info and I leave the scene. 12 hours later you find a neighbor's surveillance video that shows it wasn't a justified shooting but actually a murder. By that time I have already jumped on a plane and left the state/country.

Now if it were much more simple case then it would be much more possible to release someone quickly. If you were a cop and found me writing graffiti on a stop sign then the case would be very simple, take me to the station, book me, and set my bail. If you held me for 48 hours even if it only took you 2 hours then you would be opening up yourself to a lawsuit. With a homicide investigation they are using that full 48 hours in most cases except for short bits of sleep.

More unsupported questions.

People are released pending further investigation all the time.  if they had cause to keep him as a flight risk, they would have had a hearing on bail.  That didn't happen since he was not charged.

You injected a lot of what ifs, but none of it makes sense.  Most people who intend to flee the country are not going to make reservations after talking to the police.  they are going to flee the scene and try to leave before the Cops even know who they are looking for.  Being detained only risks not having the chance to flee.

Your hypotheticals lack serious thought.

You are attributing emotion to my post that does not exist.

Sounds like you are the one upset I called you out for trolling. 

I must have been right for you to even reply.

The butt hurt is strong with this one!

More unsupported questions.

People are released pending further investigation all the time.  if they had cause to keep him as a flight risk, they would have had a hearing on bail.  That didn't happen since he was not charged.

You injected a lot of what ifs, but none of it makes sense.  Most people who intend to flee the country are not going to make reservations after talking to the police.  they are going to flee the scene and try to leave before the Cops even know who they are looking for.  Being detained only risks not having the chance to flee.

Your hypotheticals lack serious thought.

I didn't ask any questions.

You complain about my hypotheticals but then go make a bunch of unsupported assertions about what people would do in your opinion.

The hypotheticals are just simple illustrations, not novels. If I had typed a novel then you would complain it was too deep. You are just here to troll, you didn't even attempt to show anything I said was wrong.

I already said flight risk has nothing to do with his detention. Focus.

I must have been right for you to even reply.

The butt hurt is strong with this one!

Pointing out your fallacies doesn't mean you were right or that I was butthurt. Stop projecting your insecurities on me.

I didn't ask any questions.

You complain about my hypotheticals but then go make a bunch of unsupported assertions about what people would do in your opinion.

The hypotheticals are just simple illustrations, not novels. If I had typed a novel then you would complain it was too deep. You are just here to troll, you didn't even attempt to show anything I said was wrong.

I already said flight risk has nothing to do with his detention. Focus.

You hypothesized that he was not a flight risk based on 2 criteria, both for which you think you know the answers.  What if the investigation turns up information NOT easily found out before a full investigation?  That secret might be enough to induce flight rather than wait for the Cops to find out everything that might prove murder.

So, you really can't know if he's a flight risk, can you?

Additionally, every time you use the word "if" upon which you base a conclusion, you are creating a conditional statement.  Conditional statements are questions.

In a flow chart, a conditional statement has 3 possible branches: Yes, No, and Unknown.  Why would there be answers if the "IF" statement is not a question?

You might not be phasing it as if you are asking a question, but all those "IFs" are questions.  I don't doubt you disagree because there's no question mark, but language doesn't need your concurrence to be correct.

Ex:
"If he was intoxicated by alcohol or some drug (legal or illegal) then the detective is already going to have to wait 12-24 hours to try and interview him"

In the form of a question:
Was he intoxicated by alcohol or some drug (legal or illegal)?  If so, then the detective is already going to have to wait 12-24 hours to try and interview him.

It's a question in either form.

if
conjunction

1.  In case that; granting, allowing, or supposing that; -- introducing a condition or supposition.

2.  Whether; -- in dependent questions.
Similar: whether

You hypothesized that he was not a flight risk based on 2 criteria, both for which you think you know the answers.  What if the investigation turns up information NOT easily found out before a full investigation?  That secret might be enough to induce flight rather than wait for the Cops to find out everything that might prove murder.

So, you really can't know if he's a flight risk, can you?

Additionally, every time you use the word "if" upon which you base a conclusion, you are creating a conditional statement.  Conditional statements are questions.

In a flow chart, a conditional statement has 3 possible branches: Yes, No, and Unknown.  Why would there be answers if the "IF" statement is not a question?

You might not be phasing it as if you are asking a question, but all those "IFs" are questions.  I don't doubt you disagree because there's no question mark, but language doesn't need your concurrence to be correct.

Ex:
"If he was intoxicated by alcohol or some drug (legal or illegal) then the detective is already going to have to wait 12-24 hours to try and interview him"

In the form of a question:
Was he intoxicated by alcohol or some drug (legal or illegal)?  If so, then the detective is already going to have to wait 12-24 hours to try and interview him.

It's a question in either form.

Wrong, I did not hypothesize that he was not a flight risk. Read my statement again.

I didn't notice it before, but Carnates was held for 19hrs 40 min which is an encouraging sign as he could've been held for 48 hours.  This means the police released him knowing it was likely self-defense and not because they were forced to at 48 hours.  That's still a long time though.

I didn't notice it before, but Carnates was held for 19hrs 40 min which is an encouraging sign as he could've been held for 48 hours.  This means the police released him knowing it was likely self-defense and not because they were forced to at 48 hours.  That's still a long time though.

I am sure it was a long time for him but all things considered that is actually fairly fast considering the complexity of the case. I am rather impressed.

I didn't notice it before, but Carnates was held for 19hrs 40 min which is an encouraging sign as he could've been held for 48 hours.  This means the police released him knowing it was likely self-defense and not because they were forced to at 48 hours.  That's still a long time though.

This guy just killed someone and probably saw his family/friends get shot/killed.  I wonder if any grief counseling was offered.

This guy just killed someone and probably saw his family/friends get shot/killed.  I wonder if any grief counseling was offered.

=======
A gal I know just did some grief counselling with the family

It's part of her job but she knew one of the victims too.... so sad.
Hawaii is a small place, and Waianae is a really small place.

This guy just killed someone and probably saw his family/friends get shot/killed.  I wonder if any grief counseling was offered.

Good question. HPD does have police chaplains that can go to things like this but I doubt they would end up talking to an arrestee. It would be nice if they gave him some resource options for grief counseling after his release though.

The Cops are not interested in providing mental health assistance to gun owners who defended themselves and others with their firearms.

They want you to suffer, so the next person will heed the warning about being subjected to "the system" more seriously.

When the police chief promised to run anyone through the system at great personal and financial risk for using a gun in self defense, they asked, "Is it worth it?"

I see nothing that HPD has done regarding firearm laws to contradict that attitude.  They show up at legislative meetings to voice support for more and stricter laws by which the state can punish gun owners, not assist in the aftermath.

Grief counseling for an armed citizen who stopped a bad guy with a gun? 

Right.   

The Cops are not interested in providing mental health assistance to gun owners who defended themselves and others with their firearms.

They want you to suffer...

I didn't know you could read minds.

I didn't know you could read minds.

I go off the statements reported in the press -- quotes from those in charge of HPD.

"Do you think it's worth it?"

What are you doing besides posting insults?  Any evidence that contradicts my conclusion? 

I didn't think so.

Here's an interesting self defense story.  Would you arrest on site or not?

Man stabs handyman in their home.  Handyman does jobs at the home.  Man chases handyman and hits him with a bat and stabs him with a knife.  Handyman dies.

https://nypost.com/2024/10/03/us-news/seattle-stabbing-suspect-kshawn-konscience-jimerson-released-by-judge-michelle-gehlsen-27-hours-after-fatal-stabbing/

Here's an interesting self defense story.  Would you arrest on site or not?

Man stabs handyman in their home.  Handyman does jobs at the home.  Man chases handyman and hits him with a bat and stabs him with a knife.  Handyman dies.

https://nypost.com/2024/10/03/us-news/seattle-stabbing-suspect-kshawn-konscience-jimerson-released-by-judge-michelle-gehlsen-27-hours-after-fatal-stabbing/

https://www.timesleaderonline.com/news/local-news/2024/02/bradley-sentenced-following-2021-shooting-case/

He used to live in Hawaii and was our neighbor.  He was never arrested at the scene as the Sheriff deemed it self defense. He had to go to court later and was cleared of any wrong doing (self defense use justified), but looks like they got him on this BS about his missed shots hitting the home across the street. No one was injured or hit.

Here's an interesting self defense story.  Would you arrest on site or not?

Man stabs handyman in their home.  Handyman does jobs at the home.  Man chases handyman and hits him with a bat and stabs him with a knife.  Handyman dies.

https://nypost.com/2024/10/03/us-news/seattle-stabbing-suspect-kshawn-konscience-jimerson-released-by-judge-michelle-gehlsen-27-hours-after-fatal-stabbing/

If I was LE yes, I would.  How can it be self-defense if he chased the guy, hit him with a baseball bat then stabbed him.