CCW is not a right, it's a privilege. The sooner everyone accepts that fact the sooner it will become a reality.

Never thought I'd hear this from someone on this forum.

Never thought I'd hear this from someone on this forum.

Successful troll is successful?

That is the dumbest statement I heard in a long time of course concealed carry is a right as evident by the fifth Court of Appeals overturning Illinois bad on ccw I suspect we'll see the same thing with the California
then hawaii ....Its true however the opinion that open carry or concealed carry it doesn't have to be both

5th circuit has nothing to do with us. We are in the 9th circuit. Still no proof.

5th circuit has nothing to do with us. We are in the 9th circuit. Still no proof.

Is it your considered opinion that anything Hawaii does must be constitutional? 

Is it your considered opinion that anything Hawaii does must be constitutional?

No. But we belong to the 9 circuit which is the most restrictive circuit in the union. Also Hawaii in general will never allow CCW, we can't even register our guns at different places.

No. But we belong to the 9 circuit which is the most restrictive circuit in the union. Also Hawaii in general will never allow CCW, we can't even register our guns at different places.

Hawaii will be dragged into compliance with the Constitution, kicking and screaming, but in compliance nonetheless.  Illinois just did, and they're worse than Hawaii. 

Hawaii will be dragged into compliance with the Constitution, kicking and screaming, but in compliance nonetheless.  Illinois just did, and they're worse than Hawaii.

Haha. Highly doubt that. Hawaii will make it so restrictive to obtain a CCW that it will be reserved for the select few. HPD just recently established a policy that their retired officers can now carry CCW. The retired officers have to fork out about $200 a year just to qualify and get certified by the AG office. These are seasoned officers that already have use of force training and are educated in state and constitutional law.

Everyone is saying that the system is broken and CCW is unconstitutional. No one is proposing solutions to the problem. CCW applicants will likely have to accomplish training like state law requirements, weapon qualification, medical review, psychological review, use of force in relation to state law, weapon retention, and handgun safety to name a few. All of this will be required at the applicants cost and may be required annually as CCW permits expire annually. Can you imagine what it will cost to obtain and maintain a CCW permit?

These are some of the things the legislature looks at. If there is not a viable process in place or a proposal to accomplish the process they will just shelf the bill for the next year.

Some say I'm just trolling, I say I'm just encouraging debate on the issue. A criminology professor many years ago said in order to find a solution to a problem you must debate the cons and turn them into pros so your opponents have nothing to argue.

negotiating is something you do when you feel like you're already losing. way too early.

negotiating is something you do when you feel like you're already losing. way too early.

If everyone adopts that ideal you will never get CCW! If its all or nothing be prepared to get nothing.

Haha. Highly doubt that. Hawaii will make it so restrictive to obtain a CCW that it will be reserved for the select few. HPD just recently established a policy that their retired officers can now carry CCW. The retired officers have to fork out about $200 a year just to qualify and get certified by the AG office. These are seasoned officers that already have use of force training and are educated in state and constitutional law.

Everyone is saying that the system is broken and CCW is unconstitutional. No one is proposing solutions to the problem. CCW applicants will likely have to accomplish training like state law requirements, weapon qualification, medical review, psychological review, use of force in relation to state law, weapon retention, and handgun safety to name a few. All of this will be required at the applicants cost and may be required annually as CCW permits expire annually. Can you imagine what it will cost to obtain and maintain a CCW permit?

These are some of the things the legislature looks at. If there is not a viable process in place or a proposal to accomplish the process they will just shelf the bill for the next year.

Some say I'm just trolling, I say I'm just encouraging debate on the issue. A criminology professor many years ago said in order to find a solution to a problem you must debate the cons and turn them into pros so your opponents have nothing to argue.

That's how it is now.  It won't happen quickly, but the Supreme Court will soon rule that the Second Amendment protects a right to carry firearms outside the home.  Once they do, say goodbye to may-issue and high fees.  I'm not a constitutional law professor, but I'm pretty sure that governments are prohibited from charging exorbitant fees to engage in protected conduct.  For example, although it costs money to obtain an ID, a government can force you to have one in order to vote because the cost is minimal.  It would be unconstitutional outright if that government then charged hundreds of dollars for an ID as a means to discourage voting.  The same will go for carry permits.  The state will be forced to adopt a standard with only reasonable fees related to the issuance of the permit. 

If everyone adopts that ideal you will never get CCW! If its all or nothing be prepared to get nothing.

This is not something that needs to be left to the voters of this state.  It was decided when the Second Amendment was ratified, and we got everything.  Now it's just a matter of rolling back unconstitutional infringements, and if the general public in Hawaii doesn't like it, they're welcome to secede.

Haha. Highly doubt that. Hawaii will make it so restrictive to obtain a CCW that it will be reserved for the select few. HPD just recently established a policy that their retired officers can now carry CCW. The retired officers have to fork out about $200 a year just to qualify and get certified by the AG office. These are seasoned officers that already have use of force training and are educated in state and constitutional law.

Everyone is saying that the system is broken and CCW is unconstitutional. No one is proposing solutions to the problem. CCW applicants will likely have to accomplish training like state law requirements, weapon qualification, medical review, psychological review, use of force in relation to state law, weapon retention, and handgun safety to name a few. All of this will be required at the applicants cost and may be required annually as CCW permits expire annually. Can you imagine what it will cost to obtain and maintain a CCW permit?

These are some of the things the legislature looks at. If there is not a viable process in place or a proposal to accomplish the process they will just shelf the bill for the next year.

Some say I'm just trolling, I say I'm just encouraging debate on the issue. A criminology professor many years ago said in order to find a solution to a problem you must debate the cons and turn them into pros so your opponents have nothing to argue.

would YOU mind bringing some proof?  you're just ranting.


and lol, Hawaii already MADE it so restrictive.  that's the whole basis of the lawsuit.

That's how it is now.  It won't happen quickly, but the Supreme Court will soon rule that the Second Amendment protects a right to carry firearms outside the home.  Once they do, say goodbye to may-issue and high fees.  I'm not a constitutional law professor, but I'm pretty sure that governments are prohibited from charging exorbitant fees to engage in protected conduct.  For example, although it costs money to obtain an ID, a government can force you to have one in order to vote because the cost is minimal.  It would be unconstitutional outright if that government then charged hundreds of dollars for an ID as a means to discourage voting.  The same will go for carry permits.  The state will be forced to adopt a standard with only reasonable fees related to the issuance of the permit.

The kicker is that the government won't offer the classes. You have to get the classes accomplished on your own by a recognized company or foundation. It is the private company or foundation that will charge the crazy fees because they can. Look at the handgun safety classes. $200-$250 for a hand gun safety class. Now just imaging when you add the other mandated classes and medical reviews. I'm thinking at least $1000 before the AG qualification fees.

would YOU mind bringing some proof?  you're just ranting.


and lol, Hawaii already MADE it so restrictive.  that's the whole basis of the lawsuit.

Really. It that the best response you can come up with?

Really. It that the best response you can come up with?

its just as useful as any of yours.

Look at the handgun safety classes. $200-$250 for a hand gun safety class

its like 150 at OGC and free if you take the hunters course.

nice research.

The kicker is that the government won't offer the classes. You have to get the classes accomplished on your own by a recognized company or foundation. It is the private company or foundation that will charge the crazy fees because they can. Look at the handgun safety classes. $200-$250 for a hand gun safety class. Now just imaging when you add the other mandated classes and medical reviews. I'm thinking at least $1000 before the AG qualification fees.

Two questions: Who is chargin that much for a handgun safety class, and at that price, could I have a job?  HDF's going rate last time I knew was just over a hundred bucks.  The state already mandates mental health screenings as part of the permit to acquire.  How much does that cost?  $16.25 once?  I'm having a hard time figuring out how you're getting to $1,000. 

Two questions: Who is chargin that much for a handgun safety class, and at that price, could I have a job?  HDF's going rate last time I knew was just over a hundred bucks.  The state already mandates mental health screenings as part of the permit to acquire.  How much does that cost?  $16.25 once?  I'm having a hard time figuring out how you're getting to $1,000.

I'm already succeeding in what I set out to do. Haha. You are doing the research in to it. That's the first step. Being educated.

its like 150 at OGC and free if you take the hunters course.

nice research.

If you do your research into my previous posts I have been telling everyone about the hunters Ed for months. I took it 15 years ago and that's how I bought my first handgun. Refer to my previous comment. LOL

I'm already succeeding in what I set out to do. Haha. You are doing the research in to it. That's the first step. Being educated.

If you do your research into my previous posts I have been telling everyone about the hunters Ed for months. I took it 15 years ago and that's how I bought my first handgun. Refer to my previous comment. LOL

So your goal this entire time has been to pull things out of your ass, then have them shot to pieces and pretend you're provoking deep thought?  I haven't so much as googled, this is all off the top of my head, but I suppose it may be informational for some of our newer members.

I'm already succeeding in what I set out to do. Haha. You are doing the research in to it. That's the first step. Being educated.

If you do your research into my previous posts I have been telling everyone about the hunters Ed for months. I took it 15 years ago and that's how I bought my first handgun. Refer to my previous comment. LOL

no one's doing any research.  everyone here pretty much already owns a firearm, we KNOW how much it costs.  dont flatter yourself.

refer to your previous comment?  ok, who's charging 200 or 250 for a class?   

you're ranting.