Saga continues: Daniel Penny being unfairly treated by prosecution AGAIN! (Read 5381 times)

Flapp_Jackson

Re: Saga continues: Daniel Penny being unfairly treated by prosecution AGAIN!
« Reply #40 on: December 13, 2024, 11:47:16 AM »
I think the most likely case is that Bragg thought needed Eric to testify in order to win against Penny. Either way, offering a non-prosecution agreement to one party is not enough to prove malicious prosecution, I think Penny's attorneys face an uphill battle on this one.

Unequal application of the law is the best evidence of malicious prosecution.

Just ask Trump.  He's been convicted of crimes no other developer has ever been charged with.  They are crimes that would have been misdemeanors except for the unproven and undisclosed underlying crime needed to charge as felonies.

You totally ignored all the times Gonzalez lied to the police -- something in and of itself is a criminal act.  Yet, this is the dishonest man Bragg "needed?"  Gonzalez would say whatever Bragg told him to say if it meant not being charged alongside Penny.
The reasonable man adapts himself to the world;
the unreasonable one persists in trying to adapt the world to himself.
Therefore, all progress depends on the unreasonable man.
-- George Bernard Shaw

rpoL98

Re: Saga continues: Daniel Penny being unfairly treated by prosecution AGAIN!
« Reply #41 on: December 13, 2024, 07:17:15 PM »

eyeeatingfish

Re: Saga continues: Daniel Penny being unfairly treated by prosecution AGAIN!
« Reply #42 on: December 15, 2024, 01:36:25 AM »
Unequal application of the law is the best evidence of malicious prosecution.

Just ask Trump.  He's been convicted of crimes no other developer has ever been charged with.  They are crimes that would have been misdemeanors except for the unproven and undisclosed underlying crime needed to charge as felonies.

You totally ignored all the times Gonzalez lied to the police -- something in and of itself is a criminal act.  Yet, this is the dishonest man Bragg "needed?"  Gonzalez would say whatever Bragg told him to say if it meant not being charged alongside Penny.

Incorrect. Proving unequal application of the law is a difficult case to start with since it is going to be hard to find any other case to directly compare it to. In other words you would need to point to another case where a drugged up crazy person threatened a bunch of people on a subway and got chocked out, ultimately dying, by a good Samaritan and the same prosecutors chose not to charge the Samaritan. On top of that you would also need to prove that this was the case where the prosecution erred. By that I mean even if you found a good parallel case you would need to prove that this one was prosecuted wrongly as opposed the other case not being prosecuted when it should have been. The prosecutors would put forth the claim that any parallel case that wasn't prosecuted was actually the unequal application. Simply put there are so many small variables from case to case and from prosecutor to prosecutor it is very hard to say that it was malicious prosecution. We can assume bias and politics all day long but proving it in court is not an easy case to make.

Yes Trump has been prosecuted under a statute that has never been used before but when you look at the facts of the case he did technically violate the statute. The problem with the hush money case is not in whether he did violate the law rather it was because it was so technical and stretching that it wouldn't be done if it weren't Trump.

A malicious prosecution involves filing a case without grounds or probable cause. The Penny case and the hush money case are not without probable cause so even if you could make the case that the law was not applied equally, that still does not amount to malicious prosecution. Imagine cop 1 gives warnings all day long then the next day cop 2 gives tickets all day long in the same area for the same speeds. You can argue unequal application of speeding law but thats not grounds for maliciousness.

I didn't ignore that Gonzales lied to police, I only stated that I thought he needed Gonzalez' testimony to prove his case. Having lied to police is not a major disqualifier as is lying under oath (perjury), legally speaking. Criminals lie to cops all the time but if they are a key witness they are still used.

Flapp_Jackson

Re: Saga continues: Daniel Penny being unfairly treated by prosecution AGAIN!
« Reply #43 on: December 15, 2024, 12:02:54 PM »
Incorrect. Proving unequal application of the law is a difficult case to start with since it is going to be hard to find any other case to directly compare it to. In other words you would need to point to another case where a drugged up crazy person threatened a bunch of people on a subway and got chocked out, ultimately dying, by a good Samaritan and the same prosecutors chose not to charge the Samaritan. On top of that you would also need to prove that this was the case where the prosecution erred. By that I mean even if you found a good parallel case you would need to prove that this one was prosecuted wrongly as opposed the other case not being prosecuted when it should have been. The prosecutors would put forth the claim that any parallel case that wasn't prosecuted was actually the unequal application. Simply put there are so many small variables from case to case and from prosecutor to prosecutor it is very hard to say that it was malicious prosecution. We can assume bias and politics all day long but proving it in court is not an easy case to make.

Yes Trump has been prosecuted under a statute that has never been used before but when you look at the facts of the case he did technically violate the statute. The problem with the hush money case is not in whether he did violate the law rather it was because it was so technical and stretching that it wouldn't be done if it weren't Trump.

A malicious prosecution involves filing a case without grounds or probable cause. The Penny case and the hush money case are not without probable cause so even if you could make the case that the law was not applied equally, that still does not amount to malicious prosecution. Imagine cop 1 gives warnings all day long then the next day cop 2 gives tickets all day long in the same area for the same speeds. You can argue unequal application of speeding law but thats not grounds for maliciousness.

I didn't ignore that Gonzales lied to police, I only stated that I thought he needed Gonzalez' testimony to prove his case. Having lied to police is not a major disqualifier as is lying under oath (perjury), legally speaking. Criminals lie to cops all the time but if they are a key witness they are still used.

i'm not going to pretend to defend or explain what Penny's lawyers stated.  You have an opposing opinion (surprise) and feel like you have to defend it with definitions you copied from google results.

All I can tell you is the process should have resulted in nobody charged.  Alvin Bragg has demonstrated political bias in exercising the powers of his office more than once.  To me, this is one more example of a political prosecution -- it is even more obvious since a jury unanimously found him not guilty in spite of some believing him guilty of more serious charges.

Whereas most google lawyers post a definition of malicious prosecution to include having the charges dismissed, this is the real standard:
Quote
The Supreme Court, on April 4, 2022, held in a 6-3 opinion in Thompson v. Clark
(2022) 142 S.Ct. 1332, that a plaintiff who brings a Fourth Amendment claim under
42 U.S.C. § 1983 (“Section 1983”) for malicious prosecution need only show the
underlying criminal prosecution ended without a conviction
to demonstrate the
favorable termination element of the claim.

So, that eliminates the "charges dismissed" hurdle.  And it doesn't take a genius to show the video, not medical evidence, caused the ME to change the cause of death to a homicide by asphyxiation.  Video evidence can be misinterpreted due to lighting, perception, angle of viewpoint, etc.  In the Rittenhouse case, there was a lot of video evidence.  Both the prosecution and defense used the same video evidence to argue both sides of the case.  The prosecution lost, because they jury didn't buy their conclusions based on the video and witness testimony.

i hope they get NYC by the financial balls and squeeze.  That place is a judicial s#!thole.
« Last Edit: December 15, 2024, 12:19:44 PM by Flapp_Jackson »
The reasonable man adapts himself to the world;
the unreasonable one persists in trying to adapt the world to himself.
Therefore, all progress depends on the unreasonable man.
-- George Bernard Shaw

changemyoil66

Re: Saga continues: Daniel Penny being unfairly treated by prosecution AGAIN!
« Reply #44 on: December 19, 2024, 08:15:07 AM »
Prosecutor stated that they charged Perry due to the bad guys past experience of injustice and stuff like that.  Nothing to see here...

Perry went to NYC for school.  I hope this is a lesson to anyone who goes to NYC for school or moves for work to think twice.

eyeeatingfish

Re: Saga continues: Daniel Penny being unfairly treated by prosecution AGAIN!
« Reply #45 on: December 21, 2024, 12:31:02 AM »
i'm not going to pretend to defend or explain what Penny's lawyers stated.  You have an opposing opinion (surprise) and feel like you have to defend it with definitions you copied from google results.

All I can tell you is the process should have resulted in nobody charged.  Alvin Bragg has demonstrated political bias in exercising the powers of his office more than once. 

I do agree with you here but note that I am not saying his lawyers have no case, only pointing it out as a difficult case. Then again, he doesn't even have to prove the case if he can get them to settle for a decent sum so he doesn't have to even win to win.


From the Thomas V Clark case
"And the wrongful initiation of charges without probable cause is
likewise the gravamen of the tort of malicious prosecution. "

https://www.supremecourt.gov/opinions/21pdf/20-659_3ea4.pdf

So the fact that the prosecution ended without conviction isn't the only or even the dominant question to look at. As I said we are in agreement that the case should not have been brought but proving it was malicious is a much higher burden than proving, for example, that Bragg had bad judgement in whether to file the case.