Another FUBAR ATF Raid (Read 3881 times)

astroboy

Another FUBAR ATF Raid
« on: December 26, 2024, 09:05:57 PM »

eyeeatingfish

Re: Another FUBAR ATF Raid
« Reply #1 on: December 27, 2024, 02:01:21 AM »
I'd rather have coverage that doesn't do so much speculating, sensationalizing, and assuming.

Have to wait and see until more information comes out. It certainly isn't impossible the ATF acted inappropriately but its hard to judge without knowing what the ATF knew.

astroboy

Re: Another FUBAR ATF Raid
« Reply #2 on: December 27, 2024, 04:42:49 PM »
and the ATF will insist that they are not trying to hide anything while they refuse to
comment on questions asked by congress. They will do it again until they can't.



astroboy

Re: Another FUBAR ATF Raid
« Reply #3 on: December 27, 2024, 08:37:34 PM »
Hello EEF
I forgot to ask you something. You stated in another thread that you were unable to decide if you
would be able to forgive someone if they falsely accused you of rape. 

In a purely hypothetical situation, if the AFT wrongly accused you of breaking the law and still
performed a pre-dawn raid on you and your family, would you be able to forgive them?
Imagine if they: flash banged your home, placed laser dot sights on your kids, forced you and your
family into the front yard while wearing sleep wear, for the neighborhood to gawk at. Would you be
able to forgive them or would you still be a definite I dunno.

All of the investigations could be settled in correspondence or even a face to face meeting on less hostile
terms. It would be safer for everyone and probably more productive, however the Biden police state would
have none of that. I do not recall any pre-dawn raid on Hunter Biden for weapons violations.
So much for justice for all.

People have various opinions on Brandon Herrera for ATF director, but I am sure that such abuses would
not occur under his leadership.

changemyoil66

Re: Another FUBAR ATF Raid
« Reply #4 on: December 27, 2024, 09:00:33 PM »
Hello EEF
I forgot to ask you something. You stated in another thread that you were unable to decide if you
would be able to forgive someone if they falsely accused you of rape. 

In a purely hypothetical situation, if the AFT wrongly accused you of breaking the law and still
performed a pre-dawn raid on you and your family, would you be able to forgive them?
Imagine if they: flash banged your home, placed laser dot sights on your kids, forced you and your
family into the front yard while wearing sleep wear, for the neighborhood to gawk at. Would you be
able to forgive them or would you still be a definite I dunno.

All of the investigations could be settled in correspondence or even a face to face meeting on less hostile
terms. It would be safer for everyone and probably more productive, however the Biden police state would
have none of that. I do not recall any pre-dawn raid on Hunter Biden for weapons violations.
So much for justice for all.

People have various opinions on Brandon Herrera for ATF director, but I am sure that such abuses would
not occur under his leadership.
He supports red flag law as theyre constitutional, so im sure he is fine with this. Even though he hasnt posted a single one that allows due process 1st.

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eyeeatingfish

Re: Another FUBAR ATF Raid
« Reply #5 on: December 28, 2024, 01:02:54 AM »
Hello EEF
I forgot to ask you something. You stated in another thread that you were unable to decide if you
would be able to forgive someone if they falsely accused you of rape. 

In a purely hypothetical situation, if the AFT wrongly accused you of breaking the law and still
performed a pre-dawn raid on you and your family, would you be able to forgive them?
Imagine if they: flash banged your home, placed laser dot sights on your kids, forced you and your
family into the front yard while wearing sleep wear, for the neighborhood to gawk at. Would you be
able to forgive them or would you still be a definite I dunno.

All of the investigations could be settled in correspondence or even a face to face meeting on less hostile
terms. It would be safer for everyone and probably more productive, however the Biden police state would
have none of that. I do not recall any pre-dawn raid on Hunter Biden for weapons violations.
So much for justice for all.

People have various opinions on Brandon Herrera for ATF director, but I am sure that such abuses would
not occur under his leadership.


I would say that there are a number of considerations with which I would consider.
Was the ATF acting on good faith based on intelligence they thought was reasonable?
Were they incompetent? (Bad training, poor investigation, stupid mistakes)
Were they malicious? (lying, falsifying evidence, etc.)

If the agents acted on good faith and reasonable information available to them then I think I would have no problem forgiving them. Consider though that the point of my comment is hoping for a more objective reporting on the incident, as in real serious journalism, not someone with an axe to grind presenting the story in a clearly one sided manner when he doesn't have enough information to support his characterization.

If I were in charge of the operation I would seek a time when the children weren't going to be home to serve the warrant however I don't know if the circumstances known to the agents at that time would have allowed for that. All of the pertinent information to judge the ATF's actions are in the sealed warrant so we can only really speculate.

eyeeatingfish

Re: Another FUBAR ATF Raid
« Reply #6 on: December 28, 2024, 01:03:33 AM »
He supports red flag law as theyre constitutional, so im sure he is fine with this. Even though he hasnt posted a single one that allows due process 1st.

Sent from my SM-G991U using Tapatalk

You should stop lying about what I have said about red flag laws.  :stopjack:

astroboy

Re: Another FUBAR ATF Raid
« Reply #7 on: December 28, 2024, 08:57:13 AM »
The story about the black family subjected to an ATF pre-dawn raId will never be covered by
the main stream media. There is also no outrage from BLM, NAACP, nor the Black Caucus.
Protecting the Biden White House from more scandals seems to be more important. 

The children did not have to be subjected to such treatment. The emotional damage to them
could last a life time. Nothing was confiscated except for the man's cell phone, which was
later returned. A sealed warrant does not mean the facts behind the allegations can remain
hidden forever. A new Administration in the White House will soon make America great again.
Old proverb: A new broom will sweep much cleaner. 

It is interesting to note that some of the documents confiscated at Trump's home during yet another
pre-dawn raid at Mar A Lago were the same documents that the Feds insisted that Trump needed to take
possession of upon leaving the White House. Can we trust the Feds? It will take time to correct
the mistakes of the past admins.   
« Last Edit: December 28, 2024, 09:02:38 AM by astroboy »

Wchiro

Re: Another FUBAR ATF Raid
« Reply #8 on: December 28, 2024, 10:27:53 AM »

If I were in charge of the operation I would seek a time when the children weren't going to be home to serve the warrant however I don't know if the circumstances known to the agents at that time would have allowed for that. All of the pertinent information to judge the ATF's actions are in the sealed warrant so we can only really speculate.


If you note, all Biden ATF raids have been pre-dawn raids.  No conciderations whether kid are present or not.

hvybarrels

Re: Another FUBAR ATF Raid
« Reply #9 on: December 28, 2024, 10:49:12 AM »

I would say that there are a number of considerations with which I would consider.

The F in Communism stands for Food

changemyoil66

Re: Another FUBAR ATF Raid
« Reply #10 on: December 28, 2024, 07:01:27 PM »
You should stop lying about what I have said about red flag laws.  :stopjack:
Hahahha im still waiting for u to post a constitutional one. Ur last failed attempt was HI's one and left a huge part of it.


Im not lying. U should just admit that ur wrong amd there arent any constitutional ones.

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rhayder

Re: Another FUBAR ATF Raid
« Reply #11 on: December 31, 2024, 04:07:40 PM »
ATF’s Baltimore Field Office told The Washington Times the search warrant is under seal and it has no comment on the case/

I'm pretty sure Marc Manley can request a copy of the warrant. If the ATF acted improperly then he deserves to be compensated. Rather than standing up for his rights, seems like he just wants to exploit the incident for media attention and go fund me revenue.

I mean did they really go in and not say why, not provide a copy of a warrant, not mention anything about what they were investigating, not provide any contact information to follow up on the event? It's probably unlikely but if it is true, there might be some problems at the Baltimore Field Office.

macsak

Re: Another FUBAR ATF Raid
« Reply #12 on: December 31, 2024, 05:03:02 PM »
awesome, that's two...

ATF’s Baltimore Field Office told The Washington Times the search warrant is under seal and it has no comment on the case/

I'm pretty sure Marc Manley can request a copy of the warrant. If the ATF acted improperly then he deserves to be compensated. Rather than standing up for his rights, seems like he just wants to exploit the incident for media attention and go fund me revenue.

I mean did they really go in and not say why, not provide a copy of a warrant, not mention anything about what they were investigating, not provide any contact information to follow up on the event? It's probably unlikely but if it is true, there might be some problems at the Baltimore Field Office.

changemyoil66

Re: Another FUBAR ATF Raid
« Reply #13 on: December 31, 2024, 05:50:20 PM »
ATF’s Baltimore Field Office told The Washington Times the search warrant is under seal and it has no comment on the case/

I'm pretty sure Marc Manley can request a copy of the warrant. If the ATF acted improperly then he deserves to be compensated. Rather than standing up for his rights, seems like he just wants to exploit the incident for media attention and go fund me revenue.

I mean did they really go in and not say why, not provide a copy of a warrant, not mention anything about what they were investigating, not provide any contact information to follow up on the event? It's probably unlikely but if it is true, there might be some problems at the Baltimore Field Office.
Wow, imagine what u can do when TDS isnt kicking in.

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Flapp_Jackson

Re: Another FUBAR ATF Raid
« Reply #14 on: December 31, 2024, 06:12:42 PM »
ATF’s Baltimore Field Office told The Washington Times the search warrant is under seal and it has no comment on the case/

I'm pretty sure Marc Manley can request a copy of the warrant. If the ATF acted improperly then he deserves to be compensated. Rather than standing up for his rights, seems like he just wants to exploit the incident for media attention and go fund me revenue.

I mean did they really go in and not say why, not provide a copy of a warrant, not mention anything about what they were investigating, not provide any contact information to follow up on the event? It's probably unlikely but if it is true, there might be some problems at the Baltimore Field Office.

Who are you?

And what have you done with rhater?
The reasonable man adapts himself to the world;
the unreasonable one persists in trying to adapt the world to himself.
Therefore, all progress depends on the unreasonable man.
-- George Bernard Shaw

eyeeatingfish

Re: Another FUBAR ATF Raid
« Reply #15 on: January 08, 2025, 11:00:06 AM »

If you note, all Biden ATF raids have been pre-dawn raids.  No conciderations whether kid are present or not.

Are you saying that based on the two that have hit the news or did you find something that shows the times of all ATF search warrants were executed at?

eyeeatingfish

Re: Another FUBAR ATF Raid
« Reply #16 on: January 08, 2025, 11:09:59 AM »
The story about the black family subjected to an ATF pre-dawn raId will never be covered by
the main stream media. There is also no outrage from BLM, NAACP, nor the Black Caucus.
Protecting the Biden White House from more scandals seems to be more important. 

The children did not have to be subjected to such treatment. The emotional damage to them
could last a life time. Nothing was confiscated except for the man's cell phone, which was
later returned. A sealed warrant does not mean the facts behind the allegations can remain
hidden forever. A new Administration in the White House will soon make America great again.
Old proverb: A new broom will sweep much cleaner. 

It is interesting to note that some of the documents confiscated at Trump's home during yet another
pre-dawn raid at Mar A Lago were the same documents that the Feds insisted that Trump needed to take
possession of upon leaving the White House. Can we trust the Feds? It will take time to correct
the mistakes of the past admins.

Warrants are often sealed when something needs to be kept secret. Examples would be to protect the identity of an informant/witness or to prevent a larger or future operation from being discovered. There are ways that it gets unsealed, especially if the case goes to court.

I agree that putting children in this type of situation should be avoided at all reasonable costs. My point is that there is simply not enough information publicly available to judge whether their actions were justifiable or not.

changemyoil66

Re: Another FUBAR ATF Raid
« Reply #17 on: January 08, 2025, 11:16:16 AM »
Are you saying that based on the two that have hit the news or did you find something that shows the times of all ATF search warrants were executed at?

Concepts are hard.

Interview=daytime and knock on the door.

Raiding someone who has a gun=best to do when they're asleep.

"Search warrant" can be either done by a raid type or knock on the door.  Since you added in search warrant to the convo, even though what you quoted said "raid".

Each type of raid has it's preferred time. Ask your coworkers the best time to raid a game room.  Hint, it's not 2am.

changemyoil66

Re: Another FUBAR ATF Raid
« Reply #18 on: January 08, 2025, 11:18:34 AM »
Warrants are often sealed when something needs to be kept secret. Examples would be to protect the identity of an informant/witness or to prevent a larger or future operation from being discovered. There are ways that it gets unsealed, especially if the case goes to court.

I agree that putting children in this type of situation should be avoided at all reasonable costs. My point is that there is simply not enough information publicly available to judge whether their actions were justifiable or not.

U left out how much is either redacted or sealed totally is subjective.

Example: UIPA on HPD and FBI about Rapback. Over 90% was redacted.  I'm sure all that was very confidential enough to redact. (sarcasm).

eyeeatingfish

Re: Another FUBAR ATF Raid
« Reply #19 on: January 08, 2025, 11:24:10 AM »
U left out how much is either redacted or sealed totally is subjective.

Example: UIPA on HPD and FBI about Rapback. Over 90% was redacted.  I'm sure all that was very confidential enough to redact. (sarcasm).

A sealed warrant and a redacted document aren't the same thing. So yes it is possible that if/when the document is unsealed some of it will be redacted but we aren't there yet so it is irrelevant to bring up now.