Salt Lake Fireworks Explosion (Read 6347 times)

changemyoil66

Re: Salt Lake Fireworks Explosion
« Reply #20 on: January 04, 2025, 03:56:08 PM »
The ticketing and arrest.numbers from when the ban began to now is laughable.


Either many didnt pop illegals or hpd not citing. Waipahu begs to differ for 1st part.

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zippz

Re: Salt Lake Fireworks Explosion
« Reply #21 on: January 05, 2025, 03:41:02 PM »
I think you're making it more dramatic than it needs to be.

Up to a certain infraction, it's a ticket that includes a fine.  It's a civil infraction, just like a traffic ticket.

Criminal penalties would be for possession/using certain categories of banned fireworks deemed dangerous or stored in large quantities.

It's not a fine, it's a misdemeanor or felony.  25lbs is a good amount, but not excessive.

   §132D-14  Penalty.  (a)  Any person:

     (1)  Importing aerial devices, display fireworks, or articles pyrotechnic without having a valid license under section 132D-7 shall be guilty of a class C felony;

     (2)  Purchasing, possessing, setting off, igniting, or discharging aerial devices, display fireworks, or articles pyrotechnic without a valid permit under sections 132D-10 and 132D-16, or storing, selling, or possessing aerial devices, display fireworks, or articles pyrotechnic without a valid license under section 132D-7, or allowing an individual to possess, set off, ignite, or otherwise cause to explode any aerial device in violation of section 132D-14.5:

          (A)  If the total weight of the aerial devices, display fireworks, or articles pyrotechnic is twenty-five pounds or more, shall be guilty of a class C felony; or

          (B)  If the total weight of the aerial devices, display fireworks, or articles pyrotechnic is less than twenty-five pounds, shall be guilty of a misdemeanor;



As far as what some people like. what about those of us who don't like the noise for 3-4 months out of the year, the smoke, the fireworks at all hours, and the impact they have on pets?  Then there are people with medical issues the smoke and noises worsen.  It's impossible to mitigate or avoid those things when people ignore dates and times when fireworks are permitted.

It's the abuse of fireworks that's the issue...setting off outside of permitted hours, excessive amounts, excessive power.  If that could be limited like I propose, it wouldn't be so bad.  You'll still have illegal fireworks and setting off at other times, so go after those and police would be more likely to arrest for those.

Usually when there's a contentious issue, the solution is for balancing it out on both sides.  Bans are pretty rare for things a lot of people want and usually don't work.  Like trying to ban alcohol.

Flapp_Jackson

Re: Salt Lake Fireworks Explosion
« Reply #22 on: January 05, 2025, 03:58:24 PM »
It's not a fine, it's a misdemeanor or felony.  25lbs is a good amount, but not excessive.

   §132D-14  Penalty.  (a)  Any person:

     (1)  Importing aerial devices, display fireworks, or articles pyrotechnic without having a valid license under section 132D-7 shall be guilty of a class C felony;

     (2)  Purchasing, possessing, setting off, igniting, or discharging aerial devices, display fireworks, or articles pyrotechnic without a valid permit under sections 132D-10 and 132D-16, or storing, selling, or possessing aerial devices, display fireworks, or articles pyrotechnic without a valid license under section 132D-7, or allowing an individual to possess, set off, ignite, or otherwise cause to explode any aerial device in violation of section 132D-14.5:

          (A)  If the total weight of the aerial devices, display fireworks, or articles pyrotechnic is twenty-five pounds or more, shall be guilty of a class C felony; or

          (B)  If the total weight of the aerial devices, display fireworks, or articles pyrotechnic is less than twenty-five pounds, shall be guilty of a misdemeanor;

It's the abuse of fireworks that's the issue...setting off outside of permitted hours, excessive amounts, excessive power.  If that could be limited like I propose, it wouldn't be so bad.  You'll still have illegal fireworks and setting off at other times, so go after those and police would be more likely to arrest for those.

Usually when there's a contentious issue, the solution is for balancing it out on both sides.  Bans are pretty rare for things a lot of people want and usually don't work.  Like trying to ban alcohol.
Why did you not paste the entire section 132D-14?
Quote
(b) Except as provided in subsection (a) or as otherwise specifically provided
for in this chapter, any person violating any other provision of this chapter,
shall be fined no more than $5,000 for each violation. Notwithstanding any
provision to the contrary in this section, any person violating section
132D-14.5 shall be fined at least $500 and no more than $5,000.


(c) The court shall collect the fines imposed in subsections (a) and (b) for violating
this chapter and, of the fines collected, shall pay twenty per cent to the State and
eighty per cent to the county in which the fine was imposed which shall be
expended by the county for law enforcement purposes.

(d) Notwithstanding any penalty set forth herein, violations of subsection (a)(1) or
(3) may be subject to nuisance abatement proceedings provided in part V of chapter
712. [L 1994, c 180, pt of §1; am L 2000, c 233, §12; am L 2006, c 183, §16; am
L 2010, c 136, §3; am L 2019, c 248, §2; am L 2022, c 104, §2]
The reasonable man adapts himself to the world;
the unreasonable one persists in trying to adapt the world to himself.
Therefore, all progress depends on the unreasonable man.
-- George Bernard Shaw

zippz

Re: Salt Lake Fireworks Explosion
« Reply #23 on: January 05, 2025, 07:57:58 PM »
Why did you not paste the entire section 132D-14?

Because it's long and not pertinent to the possession and playing of fireworks.

It pertains to the selling and disassembly of fireworks which I'm not covering.  The bolded penalties you point out don't apply to possession and playing.

Flapp_Jackson

Re: Salt Lake Fireworks Explosion
« Reply #24 on: January 05, 2025, 08:33:55 PM »
Because it's long and not pertinent to the possession and playing of fireworks.

It pertains to the selling and disassembly of fireworks which I'm not covering.  The bolded penalties you point out don't apply to possession and playing.
I beg to differ.  I believe this section falls squarely into the "any other provision of this chapter" category which involves a fine, not a criminal charge:
Quote
§132D-3 Permissible uses of consumer fireworks.
Consumer fireworks may be set off, ignited, discharged, or otherwise
caused to explode within the State only:

(1) From 9:00 p.m. on New Year's Eve to 1:00 a.m. on New Year's Day;
from 7:00 a.m. to 7:00 p.m. on Chinese New Year's Day; and from 1:00
p.m. to 9:00 p.m. on the Fourth of July; or

(2) From 9:00 a.m. to 9:00 p.m. as allowed by permit pursuant to section
132D-10 if the proposed cultural use is to occur at any time other than
during the periods prescribed in paragraph (1);

provided that the purchase of not more than five thousand individual
consumer fireworks commonly known as firecrackers shall be allowed
under each permit. [L 1994, c 180, pt of §1; am L 2000, c 233, §5; am
L 2006, c 183, §4]
The reasonable man adapts himself to the world;
the unreasonable one persists in trying to adapt the world to himself.
Therefore, all progress depends on the unreasonable man.
-- George Bernard Shaw

macsak

Re: Salt Lake Fireworks Explosion
« Reply #25 on: January 05, 2025, 08:51:08 PM »
things i am hearing about the aliamanu fireworks incident. the guy dao who was transferred to the mainland was allegedly the guy who is selling all the fireworks. story is he has multiple rental houses around the island where he and his crew store the fireworks. this is the reason why there were so many people there the next day cleaning up. hpd seized a lot from the area anyways. i am further hearing that there may have been propane canister explosions that made things worse. burn unit is at straub rather than at queens. they did not have enough bed space or people, so they had patients at queens and kapiolani that should have been at straub. they generally have 2 large grafts available at all times, but obviously they had more patients than that, so this is why they needed to transfer to mainland...

macsak

Re: Salt Lake Fireworks Explosion
« Reply #26 on: January 05, 2025, 08:51:50 PM »
allegedly there are pictures
they are allegedly as bad as you can imagine...

zippz

Re: Salt Lake Fireworks Explosion
« Reply #27 on: January 05, 2025, 09:06:02 PM »
I beg to differ.  I believe this section falls squarely into the "any other provision of this chapter" category which involves a fine, not a criminal charge:

So you can play any kind of fireworks during those times and not get fined or arrested?

Not understanding, but I think you're saying police can fine them for playing aerials outside of the hours.  I don't think they can ignore the aerials law while fining them with that law.  That could mean aerials would be legal during allowed times.
« Last Edit: January 05, 2025, 10:12:26 PM by zippz »

Flapp_Jackson

Re: Salt Lake Fireworks Explosion
« Reply #28 on: January 06, 2025, 12:22:27 AM »
So you can play any kind of fireworks during those times and not get fined or arrested?

Not understanding, but I think you're saying police can fine them for playing aerials outside of the hours.  I don't think they can ignore the aerials law while fining them with that law.  That could mean aerials would be legal during allowed times.
I never said that.

You're trying to simplify a complex system of firework type/category, size, amount, times of use, licenses, permits, fees, sales, purchases, minors, parents/guardians of minors, use for movies, locations (near hotels, from above the first floor, ...), and all the various penalties for not complying.

You have to sort through the entire chapter to get the specifics on all the many, many ways you can and cannot use fireworks of a given variety and the permits/licenses needed.

For example, you just made a false assumption. 
Quote
Consumer fireworks" means any fireworks designed primarily for retail sale to the public during authorized dates and times, that produces visible or audible effects by combustion, and that is designed to remain on or near the ground and, while stationary or spinning rapidly on or near the ground, emits smoke, a shower of colored sparks, whistling effects, flitter sparks, or balls of colored sparks, and includes combination items that contain one or more of these effects. "Consumer fireworks" shall comply with the construction, chemical composition, and labeling regulations of the United States Consumer Product Safety Commission as set forth in Title 16 Code of Federal Regulations and fireworks classified as UN0336 and UN0337 by the United States Department of Transportation as set forth in Title 49 Code of Federal Regulations. "Consumer fireworks" include firework items commonly known as firecrackers that are single paper cylinders not exceeding one and one-half inches in length excluding the fuse and one-quarter of an inch in diameter and contain a charge of not more than fifty milligrams of pyrotechnic composition, snakes, sparklers, fountains, and cylindrical or cone fountains that emit effects up to a height not greater than twelve feet above the ground, illuminating torches, bamboo cannons, whistles, toy smoke devices, wheels, and ground spinners that when ignited remain within a circle with a radius of twelve feet as measured from the point where the item was placed and ignited, novelty or trick items, combination items, and other fireworks of like construction that are designed to produce the same or similar effects.
Aerials are specifically defined as well and require a state-issued license for display fireworks of that type.
Quote
Aerial device" means any fireworks containing one hundred thirty milligrams or less of explosive materials that produces an audible or visible effect and is designed to rise into the air and explode or detonate in the air or to fly about above the ground, and that is prohibited for use by any person who does not have a permit for display issued by a county under section 132D-16. "Aerial devices" classified as fireworks under UN0336 and UN0337 by the United States Department of Transportation as set forth in Title 49 Code of Federal Regulations include firework items commonly known as bottle rockets, sky rockets, missile-type rockets, helicopters, torpedoes, daygo bombs, roman candles, flying pigs, and jumping jacks that move about the ground farther than a circle with a radius of twelve feet as measured from the point where the item was placed and ignited, aerial shells, and mines.
https://law.justia.com/codes/hawaii/title-10/chapter-132d/section-132d-2/
Quote
§132D-16 Permit for display. (a) Any person desiring to set off, ignite, or discharge aerial devices, display fireworks, or articles pyrotechnic for a display shall apply to, and obtain a permit as required by section 132D-10, from the county not less than twenty days before the date of the display.
Lots of sections to sift through.  Bantering back and forth trying to pick the current statute apart is only productive if you read and combine the entire chapter.

That doesn't include some news articles saying how some legislators are considering changing the law to make the penalties for most residential infractions a civil case -- more encompassing than the broad "any other section" penalty clause.
« Last Edit: January 06, 2025, 12:28:08 AM by Flapp_Jackson »
The reasonable man adapts himself to the world;
the unreasonable one persists in trying to adapt the world to himself.
Therefore, all progress depends on the unreasonable man.
-- George Bernard Shaw

RSN172

Re: Salt Lake Fireworks Explosion
« Reply #29 on: January 06, 2025, 05:35:58 AM »
Watched video on news of HPD several times just driving by people setting off aerials on the sidewalk and street.

For their personal safety, better to let it go than confront 15 guys who are probably intoxicated.
Happily living in Puna

oldfart

Re: Salt Lake Fireworks Explosion
« Reply #30 on: January 06, 2025, 10:36:38 AM »
There is an HNN story just posted with interviews with some neighbors. One of the neighbors said, "nice boom"

This goes to show you where the mentality of the neighborhood is.
SMH.
...
"nice boom"
3-year-old victim in Aliamanu fireworks explosion dies from injuries, HPD says https://www.hawaiinewsnow.com/2025/01/06/3-year-old-child-dies-connection-with-aliamanu-fireworks-explosion-hpd-says/
« Last Edit: January 06, 2025, 02:41:14 PM by oldfart »
What, Me Worry?

QUIETShooter

Re: Salt Lake Fireworks Explosion
« Reply #31 on: January 06, 2025, 04:39:43 PM »
My guess is after a lot of hemming and hawing and gesturing and posturing, along with long winded words that will equal kamala's word salad..........

Nothing going happen.
Sometimes you gotta know when to save your bullets.