***FIRE MISSION***HB 125 DUE BEFORE 2/5/25 AT 2PM SAFE STORAGE (Read 2627 times)

changemyoil66

***FIRE MISSION***HB 125 DUE BEFORE 2/5/25 AT 2PM SAFE STORAGE
« on: February 03, 2025, 02:05:39 PM »
Click link

https://www.capitol.hawaii.gov/session/measure_indiv.aspx?billtype=HB&billnumber=125&year=2025

Press orange tab "submit testimony"

Log in

Hearing is the next day 2/6 at 2pm. Testimony is due 24 hours prior to the hearing.

edited by macsak to include correct bill...
« Last Edit: February 03, 2025, 05:05:55 PM by macsak »

RSN172

Re: ***FIRE MISSION***HB 125 DUE BEFORE 2/5/25 AT 2PM SAFE STORAGE
« Reply #2 on: February 03, 2025, 06:33:01 PM »
My AR15 and 9MM are both safely stored right next to my bed, just below the wall hook with my ear muffs.
Happily living in Puna

Begle1

Re: ***FIRE MISSION***HB 125 DUE BEFORE 2/5/25 AT 2PM SAFE STORAGE
« Reply #3 on: February 03, 2025, 09:20:03 PM »
What are the talking points for opposition to this one?

macsak

Re: ***FIRE MISSION***HB 125 DUE BEFORE 2/5/25 AT 2PM SAFE STORAGE
« Reply #4 on: February 04, 2025, 07:07:12 AM »
« Last Edit: February 04, 2025, 07:40:09 AM by macsak »

Begle1

Re: ***FIRE MISSION***HB 125 DUE BEFORE 2/5/25 AT 2PM SAFE STORAGE
« Reply #5 on: February 04, 2025, 07:34:23 AM »
I don't use Instagram, but your posts don't appear to be working as intended.

EDIT: They appear to be working now.
« Last Edit: February 04, 2025, 07:46:58 AM by Begle1 »

changemyoil66

Re: ***FIRE MISSION***HB 125 DUE BEFORE 2/5/25 AT 2PM SAFE STORAGE
« Reply #6 on: February 04, 2025, 08:36:12 AM »
What are the talking points for opposition to this one?

Besides that it violates Heller SCOTUS ruling (?) about needing to keep a firearm locked.

Write how this personally would affect you. Any violation would take away your 2a right in hawaii for 20 years due to the other law being past 2 years ago.

Flapp_Jackson

Re: ***FIRE MISSION***HB 125 DUE BEFORE 2/5/25 AT 2PM SAFE STORAGE
« Reply #7 on: February 04, 2025, 12:22:48 PM »
Besides that it violates Heller SCOTUS ruling (?) about needing to keep a firearm locked.

Write how this personally would affect you. Any violation would take away your 2a right in hawaii for 20 years due to the other law being past 2 years ago.
This law is a copy of laws from other states.  Do a few searches to see what the other opponents said.

Constitutionally, there's been no ruling on forcing the use of trigger locks, lock boxes or gun safes to store firearms.

The biggest argument against is enforcement.  The only way this law can be enforced is after someone gets a gun they shouldn't have had access to and does something illegal with it.  the alternative would be to force gun owners to allow home inspections by las enforcement to ensure storage law compliance.

So, if there's a storage law, not only would the person who took your gun be prosecuted (if still alive), the state could also prosecute you as the gun owner who obviously did nothing wrong with your gun.  They are looking to blame someone for the damages caused by guns, and a dead shooter is difficult to punish.  Most gun deaths are suicides, so the number of suicides using someone else's gun would also be high.

If you notice the alterations in the bill, they are changing from a stance of forcing anyone with minors in the home to lock up their guns.  Whether or not the minor is a resident or just a frequent visitor, the owner must lock it up if there is a reasonable chance of a minor getting possession of it.  They are now wanting to make the statute apply to anyone regardless of the risk of a minor gaining access.

it's been my contention forever that if the the state wants to force us to buy safe storage for our guns, they need to help subsidize it.  Offer rebates for first time gun owners to buy a lockbox or safe.  When someone needs a gun, the cost of the firearm, ammo, accessories, training (including private range time), permits, and carry licenses are very expensive.  Adding a mandatory locking storage is just additional cost.  The more the state forces gun owners to spend, the more the "right to keep and bear arms" becomes a right only the upper classes can afford to exercise.  People living where they may actually need protection won't be able to afford to do so.  And someone buying a gun in a poor area isn't going to be forced into buying a safe -- at least not right away.  They will put that off until they can save for it which may be too late to stop what the bill is intended to stop.

in short, if the state wants every gun owner to lock their guns up at home, they need to shift the burden of that cost to the state.  We already pay fees for "gun violence prevention."  Use some of that to enact these programs rather than making more laws to punish gun owners with no way to effectively enforce them.

The reasonable man adapts himself to the world;
the unreasonable one persists in trying to adapt the world to himself.
Therefore, all progress depends on the unreasonable man.
-- George Bernard Shaw

Begle1

Re: ***FIRE MISSION***HB 125 DUE BEFORE 2/5/25 AT 2PM SAFE STORAGE
« Reply #8 on: February 04, 2025, 02:35:45 PM »
What is a "firearm" under this law?

If I have a gun disassembled on my workbench, is the serialized component the firearm? Would a disassembled, nonfunctional gun be a violation?

It sounds like a gun not being loaded wouldn't be a defense.

changemyoil66

Re: ***FIRE MISSION***HB 125 DUE BEFORE 2/5/25 AT 2PM SAFE STORAGE
« Reply #9 on: February 05, 2025, 07:33:19 PM »
This law is a copy of laws from other states.  Do a few searches to see what the other opponents said.

Constitutionally, there's been no ruling on forcing the use of trigger locks, lock boxes or gun safes to store firearms.

The biggest argument against is enforcement.  The only way this law can be enforced is after someone gets a gun they shouldn't have had access to and does something illegal with it.  the alternative would be to force gun owners to allow home inspections by las enforcement to ensure storage law compliance.

So, if there's a storage law, not only would the person who took your gun be prosecuted (if still alive), the state could also prosecute you as the gun owner who obviously did nothing wrong with your gun.  They are looking to blame someone for the damages caused by guns, and a dead shooter is difficult to punish.  Most gun deaths are suicides, so the number of suicides using someone else's gun would also be high.

If you notice the alterations in the bill, they are changing from a stance of forcing anyone with minors in the home to lock up their guns.  Whether or not the minor is a resident or just a frequent visitor, the owner must lock it up if there is a reasonable chance of a minor getting possession of it.  They are now wanting to make the statute apply to anyone regardless of the risk of a minor gaining access.

it's been my contention forever that if the the state wants to force us to buy safe storage for our guns, they need to help subsidize it.  Offer rebates for first time gun owners to buy a lockbox or safe.  When someone needs a gun, the cost of the firearm, ammo, accessories, training (including private range time), permits, and carry licenses are very expensive.  Adding a mandatory locking storage is just additional cost.  The more the state forces gun owners to spend, the more the "right to keep and bear arms" becomes a right only the upper classes can afford to exercise.  People living where they may actually need protection won't be able to afford to do so.  And someone buying a gun in a poor area isn't going to be forced into buying a safe -- at least not right away.  They will put that off until they can save for it which may be too late to stop what the bill is intended to stop.

in short, if the state wants every gun owner to lock their guns up at home, they need to shift the burden of that cost to the state.  We already pay fees for "gun violence prevention."  Use some of that to enact these programs rather than making more laws to punish gun owners with no way to effectively enforce them.
Heller said its unconstitutional to not have immediate access to ur gun (locked in a safe).

The office of public defender confirmed my post.

Sent from my SM-G991U using Tapatalk

zippz

Re: ***FIRE MISSION***HB 125 DUE BEFORE 2/5/25 AT 2PM SAFE STORAGE
« Reply #10 on: February 05, 2025, 08:43:57 PM »
I brought up why doesn't this bill cover everything that could be used as a weapon or injure people.  Kitchen knives, car keys/cars, buckets, prescription drugs, hammers, etc.

macsak

Re: ***FIRE MISSION***HB 125 DUE BEFORE 2/5/25 AT 2PM SAFE STORAGE
« Reply #11 on: February 05, 2025, 08:55:13 PM »
think of the children...

I brought up why doesn't this bill cover everything that could be used as a weapon or injure people.  Kitchen knives, car keys/cars, buckets, prescription drugs, hammers, etc.

ren

Re: ***FIRE MISSION***HB 125 DUE BEFORE 2/5/25 AT 2PM SAFE STORAGE
« Reply #12 on: February 05, 2025, 09:07:50 PM »
I brought up why doesn't this bill cover everything that could be used as a weapon or injure people.  Kitchen knives, car keys/cars, buckets, prescription drugs, hammers, etc.

Lifted Tacomas....


Deeds Not Words

Flapp_Jackson

Re: ***FIRE MISSION***HB 125 DUE BEFORE 2/5/25 AT 2PM SAFE STORAGE
« Reply #13 on: February 05, 2025, 09:13:31 PM »
Heller said its unconstitutional to not have immediate access to ur gun (locked in a safe).

The office of public defender confirmed my post.

Sent from my SM-G991U using Tapatalk

Quote
...struck down the portion of the Act that requires all firearms
including rifles and shotguns be kept "unloaded and disassembled
or bound by a trigger lock".

I don't think what the Heller decision said included what you said about being locked in a safe. Specifically, SCOTUS said:
Quote
... the requirement that any lawful firearm in the home be
disassembled or bound by a trigger lock makes it impossible
for citizens to use arms for the core lawful purpose of self-defense
and is hence unconstitutional.

By writing the law to require a lock box, safe or trigger lock provides alternatives to the DC law that was struck down.

In a nutshell, Heller said it's unconstitutional to render legal firearms nonfunctional (unloaded, disassembled or trigger-locked).  They never said it was unconstitutional to require firearms to be safely stored.

The difference is the Heller decision recognized the DC law did not include a self-defense exception, whereas with other safe storage options, there is an implied exception for self-defense -- i.e. you can't use a firearm for SD unless you remove it from a safe or lock box.

https://scholarship.law.duke.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=7013&context=faculty_scholarship
The reasonable man adapts himself to the world;
the unreasonable one persists in trying to adapt the world to himself.
Therefore, all progress depends on the unreasonable man.
-- George Bernard Shaw

zippz

Re: ***FIRE MISSION***HB 125 DUE BEFORE 2/5/25 AT 2PM SAFE STORAGE
« Reply #14 on: February 05, 2025, 09:32:37 PM »
A responsible gun owner should take some precautions to prevent kids from access and theft of their firearms.  There are quick access safes that are pretty good nowadays.  So be careful how you say things or you would sound like an extremist or out of touch. And acknowledge thieves steal guns.

The problem is:
1.  It's common for burglers to pry or cut open safes to steal guns.  Even steal large heavy safes with guns inside.  Small lockboxes and trigger locks won'd do anything.
2.  Good safes and quick access safes cost money.  If government wants us to use em, they should pay for it.
3.  Putting the blame and punishments on the victims of the crime, the gunowners who got their stuff stolen.  The focus should be solely on the arrest, prosecution, and punishment of the criminal.
4.  Gun owners are being unfairly targeted, there are a lot of other items that kill and injure people like kitchen knives.

Also why is law enforcement exempt from this?



Begle1

Re: ***FIRE MISSION***HB 125 DUE BEFORE 2/5/25 AT 2PM SAFE STORAGE
« Reply #15 on: February 05, 2025, 10:02:41 PM »

Also why is law enforcement exempt from this?

There's the angle I wish I saw before now. Absolute indefensible lunacy for law enforcement to be exempt from this.

RSN172

Re: ***FIRE MISSION***HB 125 DUE BEFORE 2/5/25 AT 2PM SAFE STORAGE
« Reply #16 on: February 06, 2025, 01:34:07 AM »

Also why is law enforcement exempt from this?

Especially since there seems to be a propensity for law enforcement to either misplace or get their firearms stolen lately.
Happily living in Puna

QUIETShooter

Re: ***FIRE MISSION***HB 125 DUE BEFORE 2/5/25 AT 2PM SAFE STORAGE
« Reply #17 on: February 06, 2025, 06:35:33 AM »
When you ban things, the problem does not go away.

Think fireworks.  When they banned firecrackers and ground sparklers and such, the aerials became a problem.

Let's all just live and let live.

And kill each other when appropriate.
Sometimes you gotta know when to save your bullets.

changemyoil66

Re: ***FIRE MISSION***HB 125 DUE BEFORE 2/5/25 AT 2PM SAFE STORAGE
« Reply #18 on: February 07, 2025, 08:05:52 AM »
Bill passed with amendments. Next step is it goes for a house floor vote.

RSN172

Re: ***FIRE MISSION***HB 125 DUE BEFORE 2/5/25 AT 2PM SAFE STORAGE
« Reply #19 on: February 07, 2025, 10:07:42 AM »
When you ban things, the problem does not go away.

The criminal element loves bans. It is a way to make money.

Think of Prohibition, fireworks and drugs to mention a few.
Happily living in Puna