I think this statement strengthens the need for citizen self defense..or maybe our State loves criminals..

https://www.hawaiinewsnow.com/2025/02/08/new-report-shows-concepts-new-occc-prison-system-reforms/

Oahu Community Correctional Center was built in 1916, when the focus of jail was incarceration.

The concepts for a new facility to replace it lean heavily on something it can’t do as much -- rehabilitation.

“What have we learned from a hundred years of punishment? It hasn’t stopped crime,” said Kat Brady, coordinator of the Community Alliance on Prisons.

OCCC is the state’s largest jail with an original design capacity of 628 beds and an operational capacity of 950 beds. It has rehabilitation programs, but it’s also overcrowded and deteriorating.

As the state prepares to build a massive new jail in Halawa at the current animal quarantine station, leaders contracted the University of Hawaii Community Design Center to come up with ideas to help prepare inmates to re-enter the community.

“Ninety-eight percent of them exit prison, and has we have to do something to freshen things up, make these individuals into much better citizens,” said state Sen. Glenn Wakai, the vice chair of the senate’s Public Safety and Military Affairs Committee.

U.H. students spent two years getting input from the community, officials, cultural practitioners and even some inmates. The resulting design concepts are radically different from the current jail, with a focus on self-improvement and larger areas for wellness.

“Most of it was outdoors,” said Brady. “It was cultural spaces, it was gardens, it was lots of greenery -- you know, it was things that we don’t have in our facilities.”

“We’re going to have all these little modules next to it as people go through the various mental health services, drug rehab services -- so it’s not going to be granddaddy’s OCCC,” said Wakai.

The design also creates spaces for staff and corrections officers, including a gym, a courtyard and a dining room.

The big hurdle, of course, is the cost -- upwards of $1 billion.

Prisons DO stop crime.

According to a 2021 study on the rate of recidivism for prisoners who are released, on probation and on parole ranges between 50-57%.

For the length of time those prisoners (sample size 2,149 criminals) were incarcerated, they were committing zero (0) new crimes against the public at large.  Once released, they were capable of committing more crimes, and half of them did.

A report from the same year says there were about 28,680 crimes committed across the state -- that's listed as 2,868 per 100K of the population.  I think I can guess who committed at least 10,750 of those crimes.

So, while the statutes don't prevent every crime, the penalties, if applied to the crimes that come before the courts, do prevent additional crimes from repeat offenders for the time they are kept away from society.

they argue that childhood doesn't end at 18 but goes on in 30s. I see their agenda almost interlocking with another group.
https://caphawaii.wordpress.com/

Who’s a Kid?
Science — and law enforcement — are rethinking young adults.
Dana Goldstein, The Marshall Project, Oct. 27, 2016

Excerpt:
“Consider three young people: An 18-year old who can vote, but can’t legally buy a beer; a 21-year old who can drink, but is charged extra to rent a car; and a 25-year old who can rent a car at the typical rate, but remains eligible for his parents’ health insurance.

“Which one is an adult? All of them? None of them? Some of them? Or does it depend on the individual?

“These questions are newly salient in the criminal justice system. Over the past year, several states—including Vermont, Illinois, New York, and Connecticut—have debated laws that would change how the justice system treats offenders in their late teens and early twenties. It remains the case that in 22 states, children of any age—even those under 10—can be prosecuted as adults for certain crimes. “Raise the Age” campaigns across the country are pushing for legal changes in order to treat all offenders under 18 as juveniles. But some advocates and policymakers are citing research to argue 18 is still too young, and that people up to the age of 25 remain less than fully grown up.

“Some of the most compelling evidence comes via magnetic resonance imaging, or MRI. In 2011, brain researchers Catherine Lebel and Christian Beaulieu published a study of 103 people between the ages of 5 and 32, each of whom received multiple brain scans over the course of six years. The researchers were looking for changes in white brain matter, a material that supports impulse control and many other types of cognitive functioning. The majority of participants in the study, including those as old as 32, experienced increases in white matter connectivity between scans. In some parts of the brain, this connectivity increased by as much as 4 percent between the ages of 20 and 30, compared to as much as a 6 percent change between the ages of 10 and 20. In a separate study of 403 children and adults, the same researchers and a group of collaborators found that the volume of white brain matter peaks around age 37. Altogether, the research suggests that brain maturation continues into one’s twenties and even thirties.

(…)

“If people in their twenties are a lot like adolescents socially and biologically, should they really be considered full adults under the law? Many advocates who work directly with this population say no. “For many years, the idea of how to achieve public safety with this group was you want to lock them up, protect the community by not having them around,” said Yotam Zeira, director of external affairs for Roca, a Massachusetts organization that provides counseling, education, and job training to 17 to 24-year old male offenders. “The sad reality is that after you lock them up, nothing gets better. Public safety is not really improved. Prosecutors know they are prosecuting, again and again, the same people.”

“Zeira, the coauthor of a report on justice alternatives for this age group, sees three possible reforms: reclassifying young adults in their early twenties as juveniles, as is the case in Germany and the Netherlands; providing judges, attorneys, and probation programs more tools within the adult system to treat younger defendants with leniency and rehabilitation; or creating an entirely new young adult justice system “in between” the family and criminal court, with specially trained prosecutors and judges and less of a mandate to incarcerate. …”

Does childhood end at 18?
Jessica Pishko, writer at Fair Punishment Project, In Justice Today, August 17, 2017

Excerpt:
“If someone commits a crime days after turning 18, should he be treated like an adult or a child?

“In two recent cases — Miller v. Alabama and Montgomery v. Louisiana — the U.S. Supreme Court held that life-without-parole should be reserved for the rare kid (defined as someone under 18) “whose crime reflects irreparable corruption,” citing the ability of youth to evolve and scientific discoveries about young adult brain development. “Children are different,” Justice Kagan wrote, neatly summarizing modern-day medical understanding and common sense attributable to anyone who knows a teenager.

“But does 18 makes sense as an arbitrary cut-off? More courts across the country are saying no. After all, people under 18 cannot drink or rent a car. Experts say that the brain continues to develop profoundly between the ages of 18 to 22. And anyone with common sense who knows someone between 18 and 22 cannot reasonably argue that they are able to make the same judgments an adult would make.

(…)

they argue that childhood doesn't end at 18 but goes on in 30s. I see their agenda almost interlocking with another group.
https://caphawaii.wordpress.com/

Who’s a Kid?
Science — and law enforcement — are rethinking young adults.
Dana Goldstein, The Marshall Project, Oct. 27, 2016

Excerpt:
“Consider three young people: An 18-year old who can vote, but can’t legally buy a beer; a 21-year old who can drink, but is charged extra to rent a car; and a 25-year old who can rent a car at the typical rate, but remains eligible for his parents’ health insurance.

“Which one is an adult? All of them? None of them? Some of them? Or does it depend on the individual?

“These questions are newly salient in the criminal justice system. Over the past year, several states—including Vermont, Illinois, New York, and Connecticut—have debated laws that would change how the justice system treats offenders in their late teens and early twenties. It remains the case that in 22 states, children of any age—even those under 10—can be prosecuted as adults for certain crimes. “Raise the Age” campaigns across the country are pushing for legal changes in order to treat all offenders under 18 as juveniles. But some advocates and policymakers are citing research to argue 18 is still too young, and that people up to the age of 25 remain less than fully grown up.

“Some of the most compelling evidence comes via magnetic resonance imaging, or MRI. In 2011, brain researchers Catherine Lebel and Christian Beaulieu published a study of 103 people between the ages of 5 and 32, each of whom received multiple brain scans over the course of six years. The researchers were looking for changes in white brain matter, a material that supports impulse control and many other types of cognitive functioning. The majority of participants in the study, including those as old as 32, experienced increases in white matter connectivity between scans. In some parts of the brain, this connectivity increased by as much as 4 percent between the ages of 20 and 30, compared to as much as a 6 percent change between the ages of 10 and 20. In a separate study of 403 children and adults, the same researchers and a group of collaborators found that the volume of white brain matter peaks around age 37. Altogether, the research suggests that brain maturation continues into one’s twenties and even thirties.

(…)

“If people in their twenties are a lot like adolescents socially and biologically, should they really be considered full adults under the law? Many advocates who work directly with this population say no. “For many years, the idea of how to achieve public safety with this group was you want to lock them up, protect the community by not having them around,” said Yotam Zeira, director of external affairs for Roca, a Massachusetts organization that provides counseling, education, and job training to 17 to 24-year old male offenders. “The sad reality is that after you lock them up, nothing gets better. Public safety is not really improved. Prosecutors know they are prosecuting, again and again, the same people.”

“Zeira, the coauthor of a report on justice alternatives for this age group, sees three possible reforms: reclassifying young adults in their early twenties as juveniles, as is the case in Germany and the Netherlands; providing judges, attorneys, and probation programs more tools within the adult system to treat younger defendants with leniency and rehabilitation; or creating an entirely new young adult justice system “in between” the family and criminal court, with specially trained prosecutors and judges and less of a mandate to incarcerate. …”

Does childhood end at 18?
Jessica Pishko, writer at Fair Punishment Project, In Justice Today, August 17, 2017

Excerpt:
“If someone commits a crime days after turning 18, should he be treated like an adult or a child?

“In two recent cases — Miller v. Alabama and Montgomery v. Louisiana — the U.S. Supreme Court held that life-without-parole should be reserved for the rare kid (defined as someone under 18) “whose crime reflects irreparable corruption,” citing the ability of youth to evolve and scientific discoveries about young adult brain development. “Children are different,” Justice Kagan wrote, neatly summarizing modern-day medical understanding and common sense attributable to anyone who knows a teenager.

“But does 18 makes sense as an arbitrary cut-off? More courts across the country are saying no. After all, people under 18 cannot drink or rent a car. Experts say that the brain continues to develop profoundly between the ages of 18 to 22. And anyone with common sense who knows someone between 18 and 22 cannot reasonably argue that they are able to make the same judgments an adult would make.

(…)

Rental car companies and insurance companies do demographic analysis to look for trends.  In their opinion, there are gender and age categories which cost them more money than those not in those groups.

Auto insurance and rental car businesses are private companies.  There's no government mandate that forces them to treat one age & gender group differently than other customers.  Therefore, it's not reasonable to lump those situations in with things like government mandated drinking ages and healthcare maximum ages.

Children can remain on their parents' health insurance coverage -- most of which is through their employers --  thru age 26.  That's to allow for coverage while children are attending college.  If the child decides against college, then they can seek employment and obtain coverage from their own employers' plans.

i think too many "children" stay at their parents' homes, play video games, watch streaming content and remain dependent on their parents out of choice.   The rules for health coverage doesn't have anything to do with being an adult.  it has to do with enabling someone to opt out of the workforce with nothing productive going on in their lives, such as college or full time employment.

Voting ages were changed as society changed.  The original voting age in the US was 21.  In the 1960s, young men being drafted to fight in Vietnam at 18 were unable to elect those who sent them to war.  Thus, public sentiment to lower the voting age to 18 resulted in the 26th Amendment ratified in 1971.  Again, this has nothing to do with whether or not the voter is an "adult," but instead it resolved the conflict between voting and being drafted.

What i'm getting at is that the age of majority for legal purposes is 18 -- the age at which a parent is no longer legally responsible for supporting a child, the age at which crimes are no longer charged as a juvenile, and the age at which an adult can enter into a binding contract without parental agreement.

in summary, 18 is the legal age of majority, but that has nothing to do with the ages at which other privileges are bestowed upon adults.

How about an artificial island prison like the reef runway. One road in and out, secure by water on all sides, doesn't take up prime real estate like OCCC. Too expensive of course and people will be upset about damage to the reefs but Japan builds lots of these little islands in their major cities.

How about an artificial island prison like the reef runway. One road in and out, secure by water on all sides, doesn't take up prime real estate like OCCC. Too expensive of course and people will be upset about damage to the reefs but Japan builds lots of these little islands in their major cities.

Hypothetical.  Not an a reasonable solution.

Hypothetical.  Not an a reasonable solution.

Wrong, it isn't a hypothetical, it was a suggestion.

And yes, I already pointed out why it wouldn't likely work.

Wrong, it isn't a hypothetical, it was a suggestion.

And yes, I already pointed out why it wouldn't likely work.

What if there are nukes stored on the island?  Not the best place for  prison.

It doesn't matter how much you rehabilitate prisoners if you release them into a destroyed economy.

The best place to fight crime is to start at the top, and let the results trickle down from there.

https://www.kitv.com/news/salary-commission-reviews-64-increase-for-hawaii-legislators-other-roles/article_14685e24-e84a-11ef-b465-dfe42dff29eb.html

Wrong, it isn't a hypothetical, it was a suggestion.

And yes, I already pointed out why it wouldn't likely work.

Do you often knowingly make irrelevant, ineffective and unrealistic suggestions to problems? 

Why would you do that? 

Do you think anyone cares about your nonsensical musings?

Do you often knowingly make irrelevant, ineffective and unrealistic suggestions to problems? 

Why would you do that? 

Do you think anyone cares about your nonsensical musings?

Am I not allowed to have dreams now? Are you the dream nazi?

Do you think anyone cares about your argumentative trolling remarks to my unrealistic dreams?

according to kuleana, there are ICBM silos on Oahu...

What if there are nukes stored on the island?  Not the best place for  prison.

#addingnuance

Do you often knowingly make irrelevant, ineffective and unrealistic suggestions to problems? 

Why would you do that? 

Do you think anyone cares about your nonsensical musings?

Am I not allowed to have dreams now? Are you the dream nazi?

Do you think anyone cares about your argumentative trolling remarks to my unrealistic dreams?

Hahahhahahah. Pot, kettle. Nukes being kept in Panama Canal.

I think this statement strengthens the need for citizen self defense..or maybe our State loves criminals..

https://www.hawaiinewsnow.com/2025/02/08/new-report-shows-concepts-new-occc-prison-system-reforms/

Oahu Community Correctional Center was built in 1916, when the focus of jail was incarceration.

The concepts for a new facility to replace it lean heavily on something it can’t do as much -- rehabilitation.

“What have we learned from a hundred years of punishment? It hasn’t stopped crime,” said Kat Brady, coordinator of the Community Alliance on Prisons.

OCCC is the state’s largest jail with an original design capacity of 628 beds and an operational capacity of 950 beds. It has rehabilitation programs, but it’s also overcrowded and deteriorating.

As the state prepares to build a massive new jail in Halawa at the current animal quarantine station, leaders contracted the University of Hawaii Community Design Center to come up with ideas to help prepare inmates to re-enter the community.

“Ninety-eight percent of them exit prison, and has we have to do something to freshen things up, make these individuals into much better citizens,” said state Sen. Glenn Wakai, the vice chair of the senate’s Public Safety and Military Affairs Committee.

U.H. students spent two years getting input from the community, officials, cultural practitioners and even some inmates. The resulting design concepts are radically different from the current jail, with a focus on self-improvement and larger areas for wellness.

“Most of it was outdoors,” said Brady. “It was cultural spaces, it was gardens, it was lots of greenery -- you know, it was things that we don’t have in our facilities.”

“We’re going to have all these little modules next to it as people go through the various mental health services, drug rehab services -- so it’s not going to be granddaddy’s OCCC,” said Wakai.

The design also creates spaces for staff and corrections officers, including a gym, a courtyard and a dining room.

The big hurdle, of course, is the cost -- upwards of $1 billion.

I'll need to disagree with the title of his article. Punishment does lower crime, incarceration doesn't lower crime. I and many others  believe there needs to be a fundamental restructuring of our incarceration system. The conditions, in some cases provide a better and more secure standard of living then does the criminals choices have outside our jail system.

I'll need to disagree with the title of his article. Punishment does lower crime, incarceration doesn't lower crime. I and many others  believe there needs to be a fundamental restructuring of our incarceration system. The conditions, in some cases provide a better and more secure standard of living then does the criminals choices have outside our jail system.

My brother spent one week in the Mecklenburg County jail in Charlotte, NC for contempt of court.  He failed to pay restitution in the 6 months he was given for bounced checks.  He said it was the most humiliating experience of his life, and that he'd do whatever he needed to keep from ever going back.

There's a benefit to negative reinforcement (punishment) for the people who need motivation to straighten up.  But for some, they see our jails and prisons as a place to get free room, food, running water, heat, A/C, medical care and other necessities.  They use the revolving door of the penal system as a cost of doing business.  Do what they want, and if they get caught and sent to jail, there are worse things that can happen to them.

I seriously think we need to reinstate hard labor for repeat offenders.  I can imagine a few public service that can be provided depending on the area.  Even if it's walking along beaches, highways and homeless camps to clean up garbage, we'd be showing there's a real price to be paid other than being warehoused away from society.  Maybe painting over graffiti would be good for anyone caught and convicted of graffiti?

My brother spent one week in the Mecklenburg County jail in Charlotte, NC for contempt of court.  He failed to pay restitution in the 6 months he was given for bounced checks.  He said it was the most humiliating experience of his life, and that he'd do whatever he needed to keep from ever going back.

There's a benefit to negative reinforcement (punishment) for the people who need motivation to straighten up.  But for some, they see our jails and prisons as a place to get free room, food, running water, heat, A/C, medical care and other necessities.  They use the revolving door of the penal system as a cost of doing business.  Do what they want, and if they get caught and sent to jail, there are worse things that can happen to them.

I seriously think we need to reinstate hard labor for repeat offenders.  I can imagine a few public service that can be provided depending on the area.  Even if it's walking along beaches, highways and homeless camps to clean up garbage, we'd be showing there's a real price to be paid other than being warehoused away from society.  Maybe painting over graffiti would be good for anyone caught and convicted of graffiti?

I think there's a point of going to jail that it doesn't matter anymore.  Your first time offender I would assume would most likely try to stay out. But the guys with many arrest don't care. I know a guy who's an excon (1st time offense) and had a very successful business.  He often hires other ex cons because he knows what it's like to not be able to get a job. He was rejected 50 times before he asked is parents for money to start a business. He's lucky though.  He's now in his early 40s and retired. He sold his business, but got bored after 3 months of retirement. So he began new businesses with his own money.  He said the problem is what I mentioned above, most he gave chances to end up missing work cause they're back in jail. 

My brother spent one week in the Mecklenburg County jail in Charlotte, NC for contempt of court.  He failed to pay restitution in the 6 months he was given for bounced checks.  He said it was the most humiliating experience of his life, and that he'd do whatever he needed to keep from ever going back.

There's a benefit to negative reinforcement (punishment) for the people who need motivation to straighten up.  But for some, they see our jails and prisons as a place to get free room, food, running water, heat, A/C, medical care and other necessities.  They use the revolving door of the penal system as a cost of doing business.  Do what they want, and if they get caught and sent to jail, there are worse things that can happen to them.

I seriously think we need to reinstate hard labor for repeat offenders.  I can imagine a few public service that can be provided depending on the area.  Even if it's walking along beaches, highways and homeless camps to clean up garbage, we'd be showing there's a real price to be paid other than being warehoused away from society.  Maybe painting over graffiti would be good for anyone caught and convicted of graffiti?

I am guessing your brother wasn't a hardcore addict?
The drug addicts who are responsible for so much of our property crime don't care about shame. They will steal from their own mother to get their next fix, I don't see these types of public shame programs having much effect. For first time shoplifters, graffiti artists, your brother, etc. I think it would help some but those types aren't the ones really making Hawaii a bad place to live.

I am guessing your brother wasn't a hardcore addict?
The drug addicts who are responsible for so much of our property crime don't care about shame. They will steal from their own mother to get their next fix, I don't see these types of public shame programs having much effect. For first time shoplifters, graffiti artists, your brother, etc. I think it would help some but those types aren't the ones really making Hawaii a bad place to live.

I knew an addict who's brother died rich and left her $300K.  Instead of trying to change her life, she instead was shopping at Louie Vuitton, Gucci, Ferragama, etc...She tried to look classy with all those rich items, but still looked like trailer trash crackhead.

Then she would show up to withdraw like $10K cash at a time.  She would also be spending $2K a night at hotels, I'm assuming the presidential like suites.  After about a few months, the money was all spent. She was in her 50's.

I knew an addict who's brother died rich and left her $300K.  Instead of trying to change her life, she instead was shopping at Louie Vuitton, Gucci, Ferragama, etc...She tried to look classy with all those rich items, but still looked like trailer trash crackhead.

Then she would show up to withdraw like $10K cash at a time.  She would also be spending $2K a night at hotels, I'm assuming the presidential like suites.  After about a few months, the money was all spent. She was in her 50's.

It is very sad to hear stories like that and extremely frustrating that we cannot solve our drug problem. Sadly it has become the situation where overdose deaths often end up improving society.