The hearing is the next day on 2/19 at 2pm.

https://www.capitol.hawaii.gov/session/measure_indiv.aspx?billtype=HB&billnumber=150&year=2025

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Help me out on this one.

On Maui at least, spouses can and are strongly encouraged to jointly register pistols, but cannot jointly register rifles. I've been told that if a pistol isn't jointly registered, then you could be prosecuted for lending your spouse a pistol whenever you leave the house, provided they know the safe combo or whatever. I've asked the police department to jointly register a long gun, and they straight up told me that there's no need because the "lending window" is so long; it'd be impossible to persecute.

This bill would make it illegal for a married person to leave the house for more than 12 hours, or to leave the house at all if the spouse "does not have a permit pursuant to section 134-2, does not own or possess a firearm that is registered pursuant to section 134-3".

Correct? Or was the line about "spouses must jointly register pistols" horsecrap all along and it doesn't actually work that way? What if a 22 year old with a gun is married to a 20 year old?


Not to mention the fact that it often takes longer than 12 hours to go hunting. This would also keep you from loaning a gun who is leaving the state for a trip to the mainland?

How the !@#$ do they come up with this stuff.


Any other talking points on this one?

Help me out on this one.

On Maui at least, spouses can and are strongly encouraged to jointly register pistols, but cannot jointly register rifles. I've been told that if a pistol isn't jointly registered, then you could be prosecuted for lending your spouse a pistol whenever you leave the house, provided they know the safe combo or whatever. I've asked the police department to jointly register a long gun, and they straight up told me that there's no need because the "lending window" is so long; it'd be impossible to persecute.

This bill would make it illegal for a married person to leave the house for more than 12 hours, or to leave the house at all if the spouse "does not have a permit pursuant to section 134-2, does not own or possess a firearm that is registered pursuant to section 134-3".

Correct? Or was the line about "spouses must jointly register pistols" horsecrap all along and it doesn't actually work that way? What if a 22 year old with a gun is married to a 20 year old?


Not to mention the fact that it often takes longer than 12 hours to go hunting. This would also keep you from loaning a gun who is leaving the state for a trip to the mainland?

How the !@#$ do they come up with this stuff.


Any other talking points on this one?

You are right. Rifles would have to be joinlty registered as well.  Add this to your test and how any you both will have to do and how long it would take MPD with all the extra paperwork.  Your talking points are valid.

A few years ago, they tried this and failed. Buenaventura asked HPD many questions and it went from 1 day to 3 days to 7 days to back to 15 days is sufficient.  Her thought was for hunters.

The joint registration issue is a good one to bring up, and I'll try shoehorn it into my live testimony tomorrow if I got time.  It's weird that married couples have to jump through all of these hoops and restrictions for one to use the others firearms.

The lending firearms for hunting also affects outer island travel which I've loaned my rifles to friends before.  Prevents young adults from having a group hunt/campout together.  Also for instructors borrowing firearms to teach classes and for students borrowing to take classes, and for events like the shooting sports fair.

Help me out on this one.

On Maui at least, spouses can and are strongly encouraged to jointly register pistols, but cannot jointly register rifles. I've been told that if a pistol isn't jointly registered, then you could be prosecuted for lending your spouse a pistol whenever you leave the house, provided they know the safe combo or whatever. I've asked the police department to jointly register a long gun, and they straight up told me that there's no need because the "lending window" is so long; it'd be impossible to persecute.

This bill would make it illegal for a married person to leave the house for more than 12 hours, or to leave the house at all if the spouse "does not have a permit pursuant to section 134-2, does not own or possess a firearm that is registered pursuant to section 134-3".

Correct? Or was the line about "spouses must jointly register pistols" horsecrap all along and it doesn't actually work that way? What if a 22 year old with a gun is married to a 20 year old?


Not to mention the fact that it often takes longer than 12 hours to go hunting. This would also keep you from loaning a gun who is leaving the state for a trip to the mainland?

How the !@#$ do they come up with this stuff.


Any other talking points on this one?

Joint registration would certainly make sure there were no issues with possession in the case of a self defense shooting by the wife at home but I think the main advantagae to a joint registration is that if one spouse passes away there isn't the more complicated transfer process. 

Joint registration isn't mentioned in the HRS as far as I recall so it seems like something the department policy sets.

EDIT:

I do not read the bill as making it illegal to leave your firearm in a home with your spouse who is not on the registration. Having a gun in your bedside drawer and going on a business trip, for example, wouldn't amount to your wife possessing the firearm.

Joint registration would certainly make sure there were no issues with possession in the case of a self defense shooting by the wife at home but I think the main advantagae to a joint registration is that if one spouse passes away there isn't the more complicated transfer process. 

Joint registration isn't mentioned in the HRS as far as I recall so it seems like something the department policy sets.

Joint reg isnt' specifically named, but if you read he HRS for a handgun, then no one but the owner or "within proximity" of the owner can poses a handgun.  So 1 can deduce that if a wife wanted to use the husbands gun for self defense and he wasn't home, then she would have to be a reg owner.

What the law doesn't state that HPD is doing is telling people that only a spouse can be on the reg. So no children, relative, or friend.

1 disadvantage to having a joint reg is if they get divorced.  Another disadvantage is the above. Wife grabs the wrong handgun for self defense when home alone. Then taking the time to both go to the station to file the joint reg. There are more disadvantages.  Imagine if HI had no reg, then the spouse can do what they wish with the gun, like they can in other states.

Joint reg isnt' specifically named, but if you read he HRS for a handgun, then no one but the owner or "within proximity" of the owner can poses a handgun.  So 1 can deduce that if a wife wanted to use the husbands gun for self defense and he wasn't home, then she would have to be a reg owner.

What the law doesn't state that HPD is doing is telling people that only a spouse can be on the reg. So no children, relative, or friend.

1 disadvantage to having a joint reg is if they get divorced.  Another disadvantage is the above. Wife grabs the wrong handgun for self defense when home alone. Then taking the time to both go to the station to file the joint reg. There are more disadvantages.  Imagine if HI had no reg, then the spouse can do what they wish with the gun, like they can in other states.

Indeed, it is a made up rule that it can only be a spouse. Why not just make it all adults who life in that house with you?

Indeed, it is a made up rule that it can only be a spouse. Why not just make it all adults who life in that house with you?

Why even stop there?  Why can't anyone be joint on a reg, regardless where they live?  As long as they're not a prohibited person, the sky's the limit.  And at the same time, why not be able to have 10 people on the reg who would at some point want to use the handgun?

I wrote that this bill would take what is already an asinine and silly law that is only somewhat practicable due to the joint registration policies, and would push that law to the breaking point.

Effectively making it illegal for a spouse to ever leave the house is pretty damn stupid, and it's very counterintuitive that anybody could be charged for possession of a firearm that had never even left the household of who it's registered to.

"When did you commit a felony?"
"When my flight home was delayed."
~or~
"When my husband's flight home was delayed."

It's already illegal to possess a gun where one shouldn't have one, so I have no idea what is achieved by splitting hairs, wringing hands and clutching pearls over the gun being "loaned" or not at the time. 

In most states, perhaps almost all states, the firearm owner can gift handguns to those under 21 while under 21 cannot buy one from an FFL.  Usually that's parents giving a firearm to a son or daughter.  The parents are trusted with that responsibility.

Should be the same with the loaning of guns here.

Joint registration isn't mentioned in the HRS as far as I recall so it seems like something the department policy sets.

Joint registration is mentioned in the HRS 134-2 Permits to acquire
(d) & (h)
 134-9
and
SB 1230 section 846-2.7.  "In the case of a joint application"
But you should already know that 

I wrote that this bill would take what is already an asinine and silly law that is only somewhat practicable to do the joint registration policies, and would push that law to the breaking point.

Effectively making it illegal for a spouse to ever leave the house is pretty damn stupid, and it's very counterintuitive that anybody could be charged for possession of a firearm that had never even left the household of who it's registered to.

"When did you commit a felony?"
"When my flight home was delayed."
~or~
"When my husband's flight home was delayed."

It's already illegal to possess a gun where one shouldn't have one, so I have no idea what is achieved by splitting hairs, wringing hands and clutching pearls over the gun being "loaned" or not at the time.

hey!  you're beginning to catch on.  Welcome to our friendly banana republic.   

Testimony:  https://www.youtube.com/live/tBVtNv--Dk0?feature=shared&t=1057

Deferred:  https://www.youtube.com/live/tBVtNv--Dk0?feature=shared&t=9585