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"Constitutional Crisis"? (Read 8438 times)

eyeeatingfish

"Constitutional Crisis"?
« on: April 15, 2025, 02:48:59 PM »
Kilmar Abrego Garcia was mistakenly deported to El Salvador under the Trump administration. He had been given hearings and he was approved to be deported but there was a hold on the deportation over a claim he wouldn't be safe if deported to El Salvador. ICE somehow deported him anyway. The case made its way up to the supreme court and the supreme court stated that the administration had to facilitate his return.

Trump had previously stated if the SCOTUS ordered his return he would follow but in a public media session in the oval office with the El Salvadoran president Trump said he wouldn't.

This is too early to call a constitutional crisis as there is still a process that needs to play out but if Trump still refuses to obey the SCOTUS this would be a serios violation of presidential powers.


https://reason.com/2025/04/14/salvadoran-president-says-he-wont-return-kilmar-abrego-garcia/

Or if you prefer the comedic version.
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changemyoil66

Re: "Constitutional Crisis"?
« Reply #1 on: April 15, 2025, 03:19:59 PM »
Mike Kitchens of SSH posted that he in fact does have ties to MS13 as court docs revealed.  The left from day 1 said he had no association with them, so using that to deport him is wrong.

Other than the above, I never followed this because had he come here legally from day 1, he wouldn't be in this mess.
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changemyoil66

Re: "Constitutional Crisis"?
« Reply #2 on: April 15, 2025, 03:34:43 PM »
A quick google search found that:

The president of El Salvador said he will not send him back to the USA.  "It's like smuggling a terrorist into the USA".  So he's thinks this guy is no good.

I mean, does the US now have to invade El Salvador and break him out of prison using Delta?
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hvybarrels

Re: "Constitutional Crisis"?
« Reply #3 on: April 15, 2025, 07:17:07 PM »
Who knew this whole time that Maryland district court judges had these amazing international powers?

Why don't they tell Mr. Putin to get out of Ukraine?
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The F in Communism stands for Food

astroboy

Re: "Constitutional Crisis"?
« Reply #4 on: April 15, 2025, 08:11:03 PM »
Is this the same guy who shot a police officer? But not to worry he only shot him in the leg.
The Supreme court carefully worded their ruling.
 
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QUIETShooter

Re: "Constitutional Crisis"?
« Reply #5 on: April 16, 2025, 07:02:18 AM »
He was in the US for 14 years and never bothered to become a legal citizen?

Just like that farmer here.

Wassamatta wit deese guys.  Unless.......
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Sometimes you gotta know when to save your bullets.

changemyoil66

Re: "Constitutional Crisis"?
« Reply #6 on: April 16, 2025, 09:30:53 AM »
I think I saw an article saying that the retard Corey Booker wants to fly to El Salvador to bring him back.  If only your DNC politicians cared for Americans more.
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Flapp_Jackson

Re: "Constitutional Crisis"?
« Reply #7 on: April 16, 2025, 11:51:46 AM »
1.  If he was in danger of dying if returned to El Salvador, and that was a known fact, then why was he not granted political asylum or refugee status?  His status was in the system as illegal alien - flagged for deportation.

2.  If he wishes to return to the US, then he can immigrate LEGALLY.  He can travel to the first nation that he will be safe in, which could be Mexico, Guatemala or Belize.  Then he's able to apply for entry in the US as a refugee, asylum seeker or plain old immigrant.

3.  Just because the deportation was a mistake does not mean he gets a free pass to return.  If he'd entered the US legally the first time, he would not be in this situation to start with.

4.  Now the kicker -- there was evidence he was a member of the gang MS-13.  He denied the allegation even though a confidential informant said he was.  Part of the defense's argument is he had no criminal record in the US or El Salvador.  Really?  Having never been caught breaking the law doesn't mean you've never done it.  It just means you haven't been caught -- yet.  Weak argument.  "The court granted him protection from removal to El Salvador, citing credible fear of persecution by gangs there."  Um, if he was never a member of a gang, why would he be in fear of persecution by gangs there?  It's a Catch 22.  How can you have no affiliation with gangs but also be targeted by gangs?  And persecution doesn't mean imminent threat of grave harm or death.  It could mean extortion (protection money), vandalized or stolen property, etc.  Persecution is vague and usually implies the reason is based on politics, religion, race, color, etc. and occurring over a LONG period.  So, there's no imminent threat of death.  He's got the time to apply for LEGAL entry into the US.

Persecution:
    unfair or cruel treatment over a long period of time because of race, religion, or political beliefs:
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The reasonable man adapts himself to the world;
the unreasonable one persists in trying to adapt the world to himself.
Therefore, all progress depends on the unreasonable man.
-- George Bernard Shaw

QUIETShooter

Re: "Constitutional Crisis"?
« Reply #8 on: April 16, 2025, 12:10:24 PM »
that damn senator better not be using taxpayer money.  Use his own fricken money.

Amazing how quick politicians jump on the drama wagon and forget who they represent and who they are serving.

And if he says he's doing it because the people he represents wants him to do it, well as far as I'm concerned all of them can take a

FLYING F*CK AT A ROLLING DOUGHNUT. :wave:
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Sometimes you gotta know when to save your bullets.

eyeeatingfish

Re: "Constitutional Crisis"?
« Reply #9 on: April 16, 2025, 02:38:30 PM »
Quote from: changemyoil66 on April 15, 2025, 03:19:59 PM
Mike Kitchens of SSH posted that he in fact does have ties to MS13 as court docs revealed.  The left from day 1 said he had no association with them, so using that to deport him is wrong.

Other than the above, I never followed this because had he come here legally from day 1, he wouldn't be in this mess.

There was some sort of source who told law enforcement he was MS13 but the credibility of that source is in question. He was never convicted of any crimes related to gang activity though.

The big issue isn't so much whether he was in MS13 or not though, the issue is that he had a hold on his deportation which needed to be resolved before he could be deported. I think we should bring him back, have the hearing regarding the hold on his deportation, then deport him. Do it properly not only for the sake of due process but so he doesn't become a martyr for the left to hold up.

Another question is why is he being sent to a prison instead of a simple ticket home since he wasn't convicted of any crime?
There was also another case where an illegal alien from Venezuela ended up in an El Salvador prison. Cases like these are tarnishing our ideals of justice.
« Last Edit: April 16, 2025, 03:34:05 PM by eyeeatingfish »
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eyeeatingfish

Re: "Constitutional Crisis"?
« Reply #10 on: April 16, 2025, 02:40:55 PM »
Quote from: changemyoil66 on April 15, 2025, 03:34:43 PM
A quick google search found that:

The president of El Salvador said he will not send him back to the USA.  "It's like smuggling a terrorist into the USA".  So he's thinks this guy is no good.

I mean, does the US now have to invade El Salvador and break him out of prison using Delta?

The USA is also paying $6 million to El Salvador to hold prisoners. If Trump wanted him released the president of El Salvador would most certainly comply.

Releasing him back to the custody of the USA wouldn't be smuggling by any stretch of the word.
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eyeeatingfish

Re: "Constitutional Crisis"?
« Reply #11 on: April 16, 2025, 02:52:53 PM »
Quote from: Flapp_Jackson on April 16, 2025, 11:51:46 AM
4.  Now the kicker -- there was evidence he was a member of the gang MS-13.  He denied the allegation even though a confidential informant said he was.  Part of the defense's argument is he had no criminal record in the US or El Salvador.  Really?  Having never been caught breaking the law doesn't mean you've never done it.  It just means you haven't been caught -- yet.  Weak argument. 

So someone claims you are in a gang now the burden is for you to prove you aren't... how do you prove a negative? Wonder if he had a chance to cross examine the source of the claim...


Quote
"The court granted him protection from removal to El Salvador, citing credible fear of persecution by gangs there."  Um, if he was never a member of a gang, why would he be in fear of persecution by gangs there?  It's a Catch 22.  How can you have no affiliation with gangs but also be targeted by gangs?  And persecution doesn't mean imminent threat of grave harm or death.  It could mean extortion (protection money), vandalized or stolen property, etc.  Persecution is vague and usually implies the reason is based on politics, religion, race, color, etc. and occurring over a LONG period.  So, there's no imminent threat of death.  He's got the time to apply for LEGAL entry into the US.

Persecution:
    unfair or cruel treatment over a long period of time because of race, religion, or political beliefs:

Criminal gangs like MS13 don't only kill other members of gangs FYI.
The background, according to the court records, his family stated that the gangs were extorting the family and threatened to kidnap or kill Garcia.
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macsak

Re: "Constitutional Crisis"?
« Reply #12 on: April 16, 2025, 03:29:26 PM »
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Flapp_Jackson

Re: "Constitutional Crisis"?
« Reply #13 on: April 16, 2025, 03:37:47 PM »
Quote from: eyeeatingfish on April 16, 2025, 02:52:53 PM
So someone claims you are in a gang now the burden is for you to prove you aren't... how do you prove a negative? Wonder if he had a chance to cross examine the source of the claim...

Please show me where I said burden of proof is on the accused, or that they must prove a negative.


Criminal gangs like MS13 don't only kill other members of gangs FYI.
The background, according to the court records, his family stated that the gangs were extorting the family and threatened to kidnap or kill Garcia.

He is afraid of being persecuted, not kidnapped or killed.  Two different arguments.  Please show me where the court said he would be kidnapped or killed in their deportation hearing.
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The reasonable man adapts himself to the world;
the unreasonable one persists in trying to adapt the world to himself.
Therefore, all progress depends on the unreasonable man.
-- George Bernard Shaw

astroboy

Re: "Constitutional Crisis"?
« Reply #14 on: April 16, 2025, 06:57:18 PM »
The CNN legal analyst speaks on the ruling by SCOTUS. Listen carefully to what she says.

Those of you on the left you need to stop repeating: "He's a Maryland Man"
Repeating this phrase over and over is unhealthy and its making your TDS condition worse.


https://youtu.be/ZQnx8LkrrtU?t=830
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changemyoil66

Re: "Constitutional Crisis"?
« Reply #15 on: April 17, 2025, 08:05:37 AM »
Quote from: eyeeatingfish on April 16, 2025, 02:40:55 PM
The USA is also paying $6 million to El Salvador to hold prisoners. If Trump wanted him released the president of El Salvador would most certainly comply.

Releasing him back to the custody of the USA wouldn't be smuggling by any stretch of the word.

The El Salv pres said "like smuggling" as an example.  Maybe they know more info on him than the US does.  Hence his comment.
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changemyoil66

Re: "Constitutional Crisis"?
« Reply #16 on: April 17, 2025, 08:09:38 AM »
Quote from: eyeeatingfish on April 16, 2025, 02:52:53 PM
So someone claims you are in a gang now the burden is for you to prove you aren't... how do you prove a negative? Wonder if he had a chance to cross examine the source of the claim...


Criminal gangs like MS13 don't only kill other members of gangs FYI.
The background, according to the court records, his family stated that the gangs were extorting the family and threatened to kidnap or kill Garcia.

Police report from 2019 states he was with MS13 gang members when the interaction took place.

It stated he has multiple tattoos that gangs commonly use and went into detail of said tatts.  It also specified that a certain tatt he had meant he wasn't a low level member, but instead a higher ranking member.

He was also pulled over and had 7 illegals in his car. Maybe he was coming from Home Depot and needed laborers to build a deck?

2022 report from Homeland also states he's a gang member. I didn't read the details of this report so IDK what they used to come to this conclusion.
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Flapp_Jackson

Re: "Constitutional Crisis"?
« Reply #17 on: April 17, 2025, 09:32:41 AM »
Quote from: eyeeatingfish on April 16, 2025, 02:52:53 PM
So someone claims you are in a gang now the burden is for you to prove you aren't... how do you prove a negative? Wonder if he had a chance to cross examine the source of the claim...


Criminal gangs like MS13 don't only kill other members of gangs FYI.
The background, according to the court records, his family stated that the gangs were extorting the family and threatened to kidnap or kill Garcia.

Do you even know anything about this story other than what the MSM tells you?

Time once again to Educate EEF.

The dude is locked up in a maximum security prison in El Salvador because of his gang activities.  Do you really want to advocate for his return to the US?  You want the president of El Salvador to knowingly traffic in criminals and help them enter the US illegally?

Quote
The maximum security prison in El Salvador is called the
Terrorism Confinement Center (CECOT), which opened in
January 2023. It has a capacity of 40,000 inmates and
was built as part of a crackdown on gang violence in the
country.

Taken one step further, what would happen the moment he arrives in the US?  He's not going to get a VISA, and he must not have grounds for asylum or refugee status or he'd have been granted that long, long ago.  He would either be immediately deported again as an illegal trying to enter the country, or he'd be arrested, tried, and if guilty deported again.  There's no scenario in which this man will be allowed to enter the US again and stay after the US "facilitates" his return.

Any other non-US citizens sitting in foreign prisons you'd like Trump to bring here?

One other fact:  that man was never granted a green card or work visa, was never granted asylum or refugee status, and he never tried to become a naturalized citizen.  A judge issuing an order not to deport is not the same as becoming a legal resident with the permission of the federal government to remain in the US.  Only the feds can make such a determination legally.

When you know you're in the US illegally, and you eventually get deported, how is that Trump's fault?  The law is the law.  Trump's just enforcing it.
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The reasonable man adapts himself to the world;
the unreasonable one persists in trying to adapt the world to himself.
Therefore, all progress depends on the unreasonable man.
-- George Bernard Shaw

Flapp_Jackson

Re: "Constitutional Crisis"?
« Reply #18 on: April 17, 2025, 09:45:31 AM »
More verifiable facts -- not EEF-isms.


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The reasonable man adapts himself to the world;
the unreasonable one persists in trying to adapt the world to himself.
Therefore, all progress depends on the unreasonable man.
-- George Bernard Shaw

changemyoil66

Re: "Constitutional Crisis"?
« Reply #19 on: April 17, 2025, 01:26:26 PM »
A Maryland politician went to El Salv and tried to visit him in the prison. He was denied entry. (wasn't Booker).

Too bad these same types of law makers don't fight hard for the US citizens held hostage in Gaza.  Good thing these politicians don't have much international power like how a POTUS does.  Or we would get trade raped.  This 1 guy for like $100,000,000 or something.
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