Bunker, in this case it is AR specific because it is the only "Assault Weapon" he knows by name. He's not an uneducated or unreasonable man, he just only knows about guns what he has seen on T.V. or the internet. His liberal bias (which is fine) has lead him only to liberally skewed and incomplete information about "assault weapons" - which is not fine. When I mentioned that they cannot easily be converted into machine guns he didn't doubt me, directly, but also wasn't sure how to deal with the discrepancy in information. He knows I know what I'm talking about. I wanted to track down the details in order to show him clearly how uninformed his sources about gun issues are.

I don't care that he, or anyone, is anti-gun. I would like them to be well informed. The democratic process makes a lot more sense when the players are all well informed.

no one cares.  arfcom has an article that's been pinned for years.

I guess that's their prerogative to do so, but many gun sites will block or delete anything that describes or encourages illicit activities, such as select-fire conversion. I know that is not the intent of this conversation but one post can immediately change the intent and I would think most moderators don't want that content on their site. JMHO

I'm trying to explain to some friends of mine that civilian AR-15 style firearms cannot be "easily converted into machine guns." I know with the CETME you'd have to replace the bolt carrier, trigger group and housing and make modifications to the receiver - all of which require NFA clearance to own or do. Even just drilling the receiver is a felony.

Can anyone point me to the broad strokes of what is involved in converting an AR? I don't need details or a howto, just the steps involved so I can explain why its not just plug and play. Though, as an amateur gunsmith I'm curious about the details.

I tried Google searching and it turned up so much flack that I figured I'd ask here.

Broad strokes? Okay because as responsible gun owners and we do things the right way:
1 - Make sure it's legal in your State/County.
2 - Fill out a Form 1 and submit with the $200 tax.  Then wait for approval.
3 - Purchase or manufacture M16 fire control parts and the correct bolt carrier.
4 - Fit & assemble the parts.
5 - Make the necessary adjustments and test (by cycling not with ammo). Repeat and adjust if required.
6 - Live fire test.
Done...

no one cares.  arfcom has an article that's been pinned for years.  basically, you need a new trigger assembly, the sear, and the bolt carriers are designed so that even if you threw a civilain ar 15 bolt into an M16, it wouldnt trip the auto sear.  and i believe civilain lowers are machined in such a way that adding the full auto trigger group is impossible without further machining. 

so thats at least two parts (the lower and the bolt carrier) that would need either heavy machining to convert, to be replaced with NFA registered parts, along with obtaining the sear and stuff.

basically, you'd need to replace everything but the upper and barrel.

http://www.ar15.com/content/legal/AR15-M16Parts/

Not necessarily true...A low shelf construction and milled out sear relief (to accomodate select fire parts) comes standard on quality mil-spec lowers. Only minor fitting of M16 fire control parts and a full-auto bolt carrier would be required. This fact and things like the Lightning Link are why critics claim AR's can be "easily converted".

Not necessarily true...A low shelf construction and milled out sear relief (to accomodate select fire parts) comes standard on quality mil-spec lowers. Only minor fitting of M16 fire control parts and a full-auto bolt carrier would be required. This fact and things like the Lightning Link are why critics claim AR's can be "easily converted".

Excellent point....mil-spec vs commercial is a key point in the discussion and not just for ARs.

I believe this topic should not be discussed on a public forum, regardless of the context.

Concur

Thanks, Colt808. That was the missing link, so to speak.

I know the anti-gun interests are not afraid to exaggerate things like that to make them seem FAR worse than they are but until you mentioned that bit I didn't know there was a small kernel of truth buried way under it.

I'm not an AR guy at all and I really appreciate you guys taking to time to help me refine my education of my anti-gun friend.

edit: If it is indeed a moderators choice to delete this thread I fully support that. It was not at all my intention to lead the forum into dangerous waters and that's why I asked for broad strokes and not details.

Look out!  It's a Glockenspiel!

* lets watch what we say here people.  Do not post anything that can be misconstrued as illegal modification to any firearms.

* lets watch what we say here people.  Do not post anything that can be misconstrued as illegal modification to any firearms.

Fully agree...I know that was not the intent of this thread but I've seen topics of this nature quickly escalate into very specific details or encouraging illicit activity and my personal opinion is it's in everyone's best interest to avoid subjects of this nature completely.

I wish i could answer this topic. But too afriaid to. I have experience in this in another state.

It is very involved. Not an easy task. Dont try this at home kids.  You are in the wrong state.

Not worth the major felony.

Bump fire is just as fun. Just harder to aim

I guess that's their prerogative to do so, but many gun sites will block or delete anything that describes or encourages illicit activities, such as select-fire conversion. I know that is not the intent of this conversation but one post can immediately change the intent and I would think most moderators don't want that content on their site. JMHO

i just think anyone who's afraid there will be repercussions for talking about this on a tiny site in hawaii are being seriously unreasonable.  there isnt anything illegal about this, and no one is asking how to do it with the purpose of actually doing it. 

no one's going to end up on a watch list, because no one cares.  EVERYONE who might care has bigger fish to fry.

Just buy a slide fire stock,,,,, problem solved,,,,,, technique is everything

Broad strokes? Okay because as responsible gun owners and we do things the right way:
1 - Make sure it's legal in your State/County.
2 - Fill out a Form 1 and submit with the $200 tax.  Then wait for approval.
3 - Purchase or manufacture M16 fire control parts and the correct bolt carrier.
4 - Fit & assemble the parts.
5 - Make the necessary adjustments and test (by cycling not with ammo). Repeat and adjust if required.
6 - Live fire test.
Done...

Not necessarily true...A low shelf construction and milled out sear relief (to accomodate select fire parts) comes standard on quality mil-spec lowers. Only minor fitting of M16 fire control parts and a full-auto bolt carrier would be required. This fact and things like the Lightning Link are why critics claim AR's can be "easily converted".

Never will get ATF approval if you're making a new MG.

Never will get ATF approval if you're making a new MG.

No, you're not making a NEW anything and this has little to do with FOPA regulation. Just using a correct spec receiver (that one might already own) and a particular purchased part, which I was intentionally vague about...being "broad steps" and all.  BUT you are partially right, because the BATFE would not approve applications from Hawaii residents anyway.

*I'm speaking from experience as someone who has gone through the process and assembled/purchased several NFA firearms & devices. (All stored in Killeen.) 

Never will get ATF approval if you're making a new MG.

This is true.

Research "transferable machine guns"

Any machine gun made after 1986 is not allowed.

This is true.

Research "transferable machine guns"

Any machine gun made after 1986 is not allowed.

Wrong. No one said anything about transferring a machine gun made after 1986. clshade asked about conversion and I gave the ONLY way to legally do it.

And I don't need to research it, I'm very aware of the US Code, GCA and FOPA....it's not an opinion or something I Googled. Again, this has absolutely NOTHING to do with building new firearm/Machine Gun. I'm not talking about some home garage/shop conversion or build, but one using a specific REGISTERED part (26 USC §5845(b)). That (part)is what's defined, regulated and registered NOT the receiver to which it is installed. Meaning if you own one LEGALLY (Form(s) on file, tax stamp paid, etc) you can use it with any receiver you have, regardless of when the receiver was manufactured.

Hmm...Maybe you're trying to goad me into spelling it out? Not gonna happen. I'd never post information that advises or teaches someone to do something that'll get them 10-15 years of Federal time. (Plus putting the specific words together ALWAYS draws unnecessary attention.)


================


I believe the OP got his answer. We should let the topic die or be closed/locked.

Lots of great information in here.

Short version, don't even think about wanting something full auto in Hawaii. It's not legal even with NFA registered firearms registered before 1986.