Ok, thinking this through... I am thinking about what ideas I would have when talking with legislators about not infringing on our rights.

Is there anything that can be done (besides adding more laws) to prevent guns from being accessed by law breakers?

Or do what we have now work and it's just a matter of better enforcement?  What are our gun crime stats in Hawaii?

Other ideas?

Ok, thinking this through... I am thinking about what ideas I would have when talking with legislators about not infringing on our rights.

Is there anything that can be done (besides adding more laws) to prevent guns from being accessed by law breakers?

Or do what we have now work and it's just a matter of better enforcement?  What are our gun crime stats in Hawaii?

Other ideas?

Yes; several other ideas.  Not trying to sound all "conspiracy theorist" or anything like that, but do you all think it would be best to discuss these ideas online, in a public forum, though?

Ok, thinking this through... I am thinking about what ideas I would have when talking with legislators about not infringing on our rights.

Is there anything that can be done (besides adding more laws) to prevent guns from being accessed by law breakers?

Or do what we have now work and it's just a matter of better enforcement?  What are our gun crime stats in Hawaii?

Other ideas?

the past three years, we've had 24 total murders with guns.

how much safer can it honestly get with more laws?

Yes; several other ideas.  Not trying to sound all "conspiracy theorist" or anything like that, but do you all think it would be best to discuss these ideas online, in a public forum, though?

im not sure what you'd be suggesting, but he's suggesting how to stop criminals from getting guns, not the lawmakers from confiscating them.

you cant stop the criminals from getting guns.  The only thing you can do is make sure there are more good guys with guns then bad guys.  Allow CCW.

Well, I'll do what I can to find and post the stats I've been looking at. I recall from my legislation reading and fact checking last night that Hawaii had all of 1 firearm homicide in 2011 and it was with a rifle and that nationally we consistently rank in the top 5 safest states. Where we rank at the moment I don't know.

I'm not sure there is much liability in discussing these things publicly. Its not like we have a backroom avenue to make something sneaky happen anyway. Sure, anyone can see this but I doubt very many people other than us are looking at it. I'd be aware that this is a public space and, as always, chose your words accordingly.

I think its a great idea to discuss this. I've often thought that the gun lobby needs to do more to address the fears of those clamoring for more gun safety. In the absence of our expertise (only partly through our own fault) we have things like "assault weapons" being defined by cosmetics. Yep, that bayonet lug sure does make that rifle SOOO much more dangerous. Wait, when was the last time a mounted bayonet was used in the commission of a crime?

Meanwhile there are REAL issues that we could work together on solving like how to keep weapons out of the hands of criminals. Hawaii actually does this fairly well and has its priorities largely straight: 1 permit to acquire per year for long guns, 1 permit for each handgun. And, like it or not, all modern weapons are registered and that registration is used to confiscate weapons from people if they become ineligible to own firearms. This combination is fairly effective while largely allowing civilians to own non-NFA firearms that give us enough teeth to feel like we could put up a fight against tyranny if we had to.

That's what the crime stats say: handguns are by far the most common firearms used in crimes.

Better funding of law enforcement is a must. LEO's have an extremely tough job and that gets exponentially harder the more hostile the funding situation gets. In particular the ATF needs to be stabilized, well funded, and WELL REGULATED so they stop killing innocent people with no-knock raids based on inaccurate information. The director of the ATF should be someone who understands firearms and not a left wing, armchair theoretician. Hell, call Petraeus and see if he's looking for a job.

Those are a few ideas of the top of my head.

Well, I'll do what I can to find and post the stats I've been looking at. I recall from my legislation reading and fact checking last night that Hawaii had all of 1 firearm homicide in 2011 and it was with a rifle and that nationally we consistently rank in the top 5 safest states. Where we rank at the moment I don't know.

I'm not sure there is much liability in discussing these things publicly. Its not like we have a backroom avenue to make something sneaky happen anyway. Sure, anyone can see this but I doubt very many people other than us are looking at it. I'd be aware that this is a public space and, as always, chose your words accordingly.

I think its a great idea to discuss this. I've often thought that the gun lobby needs to do more to address the fears of those clamoring for more gun safety. In the absence of our expertise (only partly through our own fault) we have things like "assault weapons" being defined by cosmetics. Yep, that bayonet lug sure does make that rifle SOOO much more dangerous. Wait, when was the last time a mounted bayonet was used in the commission of a crime?

Meanwhile there are REAL issues that we could work together on solving like how to keep weapons out of the hands of criminals. Hawaii actually does this fairly well and has its priorities largely straight: 1 permit to acquire per year for long guns, 1 permit for each handgun. And, like it or not, all modern weapons are registered and that registration is used to confiscate weapons from people if they become ineligible to own firearms. This combination is fairly effective while largely allowing civilians to own non-NFA firearms that give us enough teeth to feel like we could put up a fight against tyranny if we had to.

That's what the crime stats say: handguns are by far the most common firearms used in crimes.

Better funding of law enforcement is a must. LEO's have an extremely tough job and that gets exponentially harder the more hostile the funding situation gets. In particular the ATF needs to be stabilized, well funded, and WELL REGULATED so they stop killing innocent people with no-knock raids based on inaccurate information. The director of the ATF should be someone who understands firearms and not a left wing, armchair theoretician. Hell, call Petraeus and see if he's looking for a job.

Those are a few ideas of the top of my head.

have at it.

http://www2.fbi.gov/ucr/cius2009/data/table_20.html
http://www.fbi.gov/about-us/cjis/ucr/crime-in-the-u.s/2010/crime-in-the-u.s.-2010/tables/10tbl20.xls
http://www.fbi.gov/about-us/cjis/ucr/crime-in-the-u.s/2011/crime-in-the-u.s.-2011/tables/table-20

im not sure what you'd be suggesting, but he's suggesting how to stop criminals from getting guns, not the lawmakers from confiscating them.

Try read original post again, bruddah xer21. See, below:

Ok, thinking this through... I am thinking about what ideas I would have when talking with legislators about not infringing on our rights.

Bruddah JI808 DOES talk about how to stop criminals from getting guns in his sentence, below:

Is there anything that can be done (besides adding more laws) to prevent guns from being accessed by law breakers?

What I was "suggesting" refers to the first sentence and the last sentence of the original post.  Do you want to give your thoughts and strategies away to members of the pro-gun community who may be viewing this public, online forum?

bass monkey, you actually can largely stop the criminals from getting guns. Australia and England are proof of this and there are many others so your argument, while I agree with you, is easy to invalidate. The NFA itself is also proof that gun control alters the gun violence landscape. The trick in the US and the individual states is balancing than against the 2nd amendment and the weight of public opinion that England's solution is not constitutional here.

Meanwhile, examples like Vermont and New Hampshire are also worth pointing out: 2 of the most lax gun control states yet are the top two safe states in terms of gun control. Why? Is it JUST that the gun laws are lax or are there other factors. Louisiana also has incredibly lax gun laws and it is the least safe state. Why? What's the difference? Is it the heat? The state of the economy? Something in the water?

Its very worth talking about because without looking at real stats and thinking outside the box we're just going to get more bullshit "barrel shrouds are dangerous!" from our brilliant legislators.

North Dakota also has almost no gun related homicides.

Hmmm... I think we'll find that the most effective way to reduce ~gun~ violence (which has already been the trend for several years despite increases in gun ownership) will be reducing the conditions which encourage violent crime in general. More jobs, better social services, stabilized economy, less income inequality, effective and high integrity law enforcement, etc.

North Dakota also has almost no gun related homicides.

Hmmm... I think we'll find that the most effective way to reduce ~gun~ violence (which has already been the trend for several years despite increases in gun ownership) will be reducing the conditions which encourage violent crime in general. More jobs, better social services, stabilized economy, less income inequality, effective and high integrity law enforcement, etc.

How about making sure that all legal firearms owners store their firearms properly.  I cannot tell you how many people I have spoken to that keep their guns under the bed, in the car etc.  And they think that is OK. Many say "I am thinking about buying one of those gun cabinets."  Thinking about it?  You have the responsiblity as an owner to secure it in a manner that negates the chances of an accident and reduces as much as possible the chance of theft.  This alone would contribute to keeping guns out of the hands of criminals.  I am not accusing anyone in particular but some of the people I have come across don't seem to understand the importance of this responsibility.  That would be my step #1.....

BUD, I'd say store it however you like but if it isn't under lock and key (of some kind) the owner may be held partially liable for what happens with the weapon if it is stolen.

Not substantially different than if I forget to park my car properly when on a steep hill and it rolls into someone's house. My property, my lack of proper control over it, my responsibility for the damage. Its not 1 to 1 responsibility with stolen firearms, though, if someone else commits a crime with it - that will be a tricky one to word properly.

I wouldn't mandate particular kinds of storage by law. Having a home defense weapon that you can't get to is considered by many people to be rather pointless. The law can encourage safe storage, though. HI law already does this, I think, with regard to children having inappropriate access to firearms.

bass monkey, you actually can largely stop the criminals from getting guns. Australia and England are proof of this and there are many others so your argument, while I agree with you, is easy to invalidate. The NFA itself is also proof that gun control alters the gun violence landscape. The trick in the US and the individual states is balancing than against the 2nd amendment and the weight of public opinion that England's solution is not constitutional here.

Meanwhile, examples like Vermont and New Hampshire are also worth pointing out: 2 of the most lax gun control states yet are the top two safe states in terms of gun control. Why? Is it JUST that the gun laws are lax or are there other factors. Louisiana also has incredibly lax gun laws and it is the least safe state. Why? What's the difference? Is it the heat? The state of the economy? Something in the water?

Its very worth talking about because without looking at real stats and thinking outside the box we're just going to get more bullshit "barrel shrouds are dangerous!" from our brilliant legislators.

That is true, but at the same time it also takes guns away from the law abiding citizen.  I was also trying to avoid the C word

... implement stiffer penalties for crimes committed using firearms.

Ban or no ban criminals will acquire guns. Is idiotic to think that a ban will prevent the criminal underworld from acquireing guns. Take a look at drugs. It's been banned for decades yet it still runs rampant in our streets.

They need to strengthen our laws. Make the punishment so severe that the criminal element will shy away from the use of guns because the penalty is so severe. On the flip side where are we going to put the convicted when they are sent to prison. No one wants to build new prisons to hold the offenders. So went in into a "damned if we do, and damned if we don't scenario.

I believe that a gun is used in a crime it should be a automatic a felony that cannot be pled down with a mandatory minimum 8 years without the possibility of parole. If the weapon is fired it is another 3 years per round fired. If the crime involves children it is 10 years per child affected. These type of criminals need to be put away and the key lost. They do not belong in society.

They need to stop blaming the responsible gun owners and face the reality. Punish the offenders.

Ban or no ban criminals will acquire guns. Is idiotic to think that a ban will prevent the criminal underworld from acquireing guns. Take a look at drugs. It's been banned for decades yet it still runs rampant in our streets.

They need to strengthen our laws. Make the punishment so severe that the criminal element will shy away from the use of guns because the penalty is so severe. On the flip side where are we going to put the convicted when they are sent to prison. No one wants to build new prisons to hold the offenders. So went in into a "damned if we do, and damned if we don't scenario.

I believe that a gun is used in a crime it should be a automatic a felony that cannot be pled down with a mandatory minimum 8 years without the possibility of parole. If the weapon is fired it is another 3 years per round fired. If the crime involves children it is 10 years per child affected. These type of criminals need to be put away and the key lost. They do not belong in society.

They need to stop blaming the responsible gun owners and face the reality. Punish the offenders.

+1. Agree.

first this was brought on by sandy hook. why is there such misinformation and lack of evidence on what type of gun was used, but the media blew it up as the AR. whatever type of gun that was used was acquired legally so all this legislation would of done nothing to prevent the tragedy that took place. in one of obamas speechs he even said laws would not of stopped these types of tragedies. really wonder why  they are really concentrating on demonizing the AR. I'm not a conspiracy type of guy but all this media that dosent add up really has me thinking

Reality: The US has the most firearms per capita

Reality: We have among the highest rates of gun violence among the 1st world nations and worse than several 3rd world nations.

Reality: Anti-gunners use this as their premise that reducing the availability of any guns for any reason will contribute to reducing gun violence.

Reality: Countries that have drastically reduced civilian access to firearms have a marked drop in gun related violence

Reality: We either address this effectively or it will continue being the basis of incremental gun control legislation that doesn't actually make us any safer.

Reality: The US has the most firearms per capita

This is a good thing.

Reality: We have among the highest rates of gun violence among the 1st world nations and worse than several 3rd world nations.

If there are no guns, violent crimes will involve less guns is obvious. dosent mean it makes people less violent and violent crimes will go down.


 The media will show us what they hope to turn into general consciousness.

backround checks should be mandatory. lower capacity magazines ok. crimes committed by convicted criminals with firearms should have sever penalties. disarming the people unconstitutional.

Is any gun law really gonna have any affect on someone that is committed to commit such crimes. there mind is made up and no law is gonna have weight in their decisions. If new laws that don't stop criminals or tragedies from happening pass, and gun violence is still a problem. what kind of laws will they pass next?