http://hawaii-gov.net/information/media-kit/constitution/

Being the right to bear arms has really nothing to do with rights granted by a governing body but that of a Creator's Natural Given Rights; could we possibly promote a better position for our "SO CALLED"  2A rights specified in the Hawaii 2000 Constitution with the possible return of the Sovergn Nation of Hawaii.?  That being said; our position as a possible Monarchy could very well be groomed and Consitutional freedoms could provide an extrodinary opportunity to remake Hawaii as a Sovergn Nation to be the new Free Country without all the downsides of Federalism.  We could possibly create a nation that has all the freedoms envisioned by the US Founding Fathers without the interference of the criminal enterprise of our corrupt Congress and Legislative branches as well as the Federal Reserve.  The Opportunity exists. Just a thought.

http://hawaii-gov.net/information/media-kit/constitution/

Being the right to bear arms has really nothing to do with rights granted by a governing body but that of a Creator's Natural Given Rights; could we possibly promote a better position for our "SO CALLED"  2A rights specified in the Hawaii 2000 Constitution with the possible return of the Sovergn Nation of Hawaii.?  That being said; our position as a possible Monarchy could very well be groomed and Consitutional freedoms could provide an extrodinary opportunity to remake Hawaii as a Sovergn Nation to be the new Free Country without all the downsides of Federalism.  We could possibly create a nation that has all the freedoms envisioned by the US Founding Fathers without the interference of the criminal enterprise of our corrupt Congress and Legislative branches as well as the Federal Reserve.  The Opportunity exists. Just a thought.

are you associated with any of the sovereignty groups?
Since your being technical, the UN already recognizes a "lawful hawaiian government" in existence, which would mean its a occupation.
You could give up all your american rights, and become a member of said government. Theoretically, the us would have no jurisdiction over you, and you could exercise whatever rights you wished.
Not that im promoting it.  Your choice.

I doubt any monarchy would survive if the people had the physical means to resist it.  Monarchy = tyranny.

are you associated with any of the sovereignty groups?
Since your being technical, the UN already recognizes a "lawful hawaiian government" in existence, which would mean its a occupation.
You could give up all your american rights, and become a member of said government. Theoretically, the us would have no jurisdiction over you, and you could exercise whatever rights you wished.
Not that im promoting it.  Your choice.

I would rather not disclose my association with the movement; however it does present a very ripe LEGAL opportunity that no other state other than Texas has to throw off the heavy hand of a failed US Government that has gone beyond it's ENUMERATED POWERS given to it by the people of in the US Constittution.  I believe that as it stands now I would rather live under the Hawaiian Parlimentary Constitution with a stronger protection of our right to bear arms rather than a unlawful group of NeoCommunists who would deney our God Given rights as we have now.  We have slowly over the years become slaves to a group of un-accountable thieves... The IRS and the Federal Reserve as well as the majority of Federal employees have no accountabillity to the taxpayers anymore.  As Hawaiians we have an extrordinary opportunity to throw off these riegns of slavery.

I would rather not disclose my association with the movement; however it does present a very ripe LEGAL opportunity that no other state other than Texas has to throw off the heavy hand of a failed US Government that has gone beyond it's ENUMERATED POWERS given to it by the people of in the US Constittution.  I believe that as it stands now I would rather live under the Hawaiian Parlimentary Constitution with a stronger protection of our right to bear arms rather than a unlawful group of NeoCommunists who would deney our God Given rights as we have now.  We have slowly over the years become slaves to a group of un-accountable thieves... The IRS and the Federal Reserve as well as the majority of Federal employees have no accountabillity to the taxpayers anymore.  As Hawaiians we have an extrordinary opportunity to throw off these riegns of slavery.

I think your biggest opposition would be all the other sovereignty movement groups.
Best of luck to you guys.
You guys have a plan to deal with everyone else who is not a "nationalist", the military, reclaiming lands and whatnot?

I doubt any monarchy would survive if the people had the physical means to resist it.  Monarchy = tyranny.

The monarchy that was overthrown here was actually a democratic one. Similar to England with a monarch but a fully empowered congress that represents the people and does the heavy lifting. While there is most certainly tyranny in Hawaii's past the government that was overthrown was among the most egalitarian in the world. Complete with the corporate interests buying of the legislature that everyone else has enjoyed since the dawn of "representative" government.

But bass monkey nailed it. Which of the 30+ "Hawaiian Kingdoms" is this? Oh, who cares. Since there is no unity about sovereignty it is ~highly~ unlikely to happen even if there is a legal and moral case for it.

The sovereignty folks should really have a heart to heart conversation with the Native Americans about the success of their legal and moral arguments with the United States over the years. Yeah, the UN has ruled against the US. So? It has also ruled against the US regarding the Native Americans. Repeatedly and without effect. Just because it is (gasp!) true that the US took Hawaii (and the rest of its land) by force or trickery doesn't mean anything is going to change. Its not some huge, vast conspiracy to break laws... its the way nations have behaved since the very first nation. Its only been since WWII and the artificial fixing of borders that happened afterwards that the illusion of stable political boundaries has seemed real. Doesn't make it "right" or "moral" but it has been business as usual for... oh, about 5000 years that we have written records of. One might suggest at some point that getting over it would be more fruitful than trying to change it.

As to the topic... theoretically a Hawaiian Kingdom could have different firearms rights for its citizens. The chances of them being much different are fairly slim as the culture here is what it is. None of the previous Hawaiian constitutions have any protections of firearms ownership at all. None. Zip. Zero.

The United States is unique with the 2nd Amendment protections of arms ownership without required military service. Regardless of the various state and federal laws that restrict gun ownership in various ways we still have more access to more kinds or legal firearms than just about anywhere in the world.

The monarchy that was overthrown here was actually a democratic one. Similar to England with a monarch but a fully empowered congress that represents the people and does the heavy lifting. While there is most certainly tyranny in Hawaii's past the government that was overthrown was among the most egalitarian in the world. Complete with the corporate interests buying of the legislature that everyone else has enjoyed since the dawn of "representative" government.

But bass monkey nailed it. Which of the 30+ "Hawaiian Kingdoms" is this? Oh, who cares. Since there is no unity about sovereignty it is ~highly~ unlikely to happen even if there is a legal and moral case for it.

The sovereignty folks should really have a heart to heart conversation with the Native Americans about the success of their legal and moral arguments with the United States over the years. Yeah, the UN has ruled against the US. So? It has also ruled against the US regarding the Native Americans. Repeatedly and without effect. Just because it is (gasp!) true that the US took Hawaii (and the rest of its land) by force or trickery doesn't mean anything is going to change. Its not some huge, vast conspiracy to break laws... its the way nations have behaved since the very first nation. Its only been since WWII and the artificial fixing of borders that happened afterwards that the illusion of stable political boundaries has seemed real. Doesn't make it "right" or "moral" but it has been business as usual for... oh, about 5000 years that we have written records of. One might suggest at some point that getting over it would be more fruitful than trying to change it.

As to the topic... theoretically a Hawaiian Kingdom could have different firearms rights for its citizens. The chances of them being much different are fairly slim as the culture here is what it is. None of the previous Hawaiian constitutions have any protections of firearms ownership at all. None. Zip. Zero.

The United States is unique with the 2nd Amendment protections of arms ownership without required military service. Regardless of the various state and federal laws that restrict gun ownership in various ways we still have more access to more kinds or legal firearms than just about anywhere in the world.

Yeah. one disadvantage is that the kingdom has no standing army. 
And one thing that is different between hawaii and many other places is the people fought back.  the native american tribes fought, the maori fought back, tahiti as well i believe. many others did. the queen here asked the people not to.

The sovereignty folks should really have a heart to heart conversation with the Native Americans about the success of their legal and moral arguments with the United States over the years. Yeah, the UN has ruled against the US. So? It has also ruled against the US regarding the Native Americans. Repeatedly and without effect. Just because it is (gasp!) true that the US took Hawaii (and the rest of its land) by force or trickery doesn't mean anything is going to change. Its not some huge, vast conspiracy to break laws... its the way nations have behaved since the very first nation. Its only been since WWII and the artificial fixing of borders that happened afterwards that the illusion of stable political boundaries has seemed real. Doesn't make it "right" or "moral" but it has been business as usual for... oh, about 5000 years that we have written records of. One might suggest at some point that getting over it would be more fruitful than trying to change it.

Thank you for writing this so I didn't have to.
I've always thought that the best bet for Hawaiians to receive anything from the US government is to push for reservations like some of the Native American tribes have. Extreme sovereignty people want the US to pull out of Hawaii, get real. Even if that happens, another country will take over because this is a very important military vantage point. Hawaii did not and never will stand a chance as a lone nation out in the middle of the Pacific without a powerful military. So yes, get over it, get a reservation, build some casinos, and get rich off the pale faces. And I think reservations also set their own gun laws so that would work for your idea, but I believe your guns would have to stay and be used on the reservation, just like fireworks at the Native American reservations.

Thank you for writing this so I didn't have to.
I've always thought that the best bet for Hawaiians to receive anything from the US government is to push for reservations like some of the Native American tribes have. Extreme sovereignty people want the US to pull out of Hawaii, get real. Even if that happens, another country will take over because this is a very important military vantage point. Hawaii did not and never will stand a chance as a lone nation out in the middle of the Pacific without a powerful military. So yes, get over it, get a reservation, build some casinos, and get rich off the pale faces. And I think reservations also set their own gun laws so that would work for your idea, but I believe your guns would have to stay and be used on the reservation, just like fireworks at the Native American reservations.

I would highly recommend visiting an Indian reservation before you start advocating for the same deal the Indians got.  Sure, they get free stuff from the government; but they also get chronic alcoholism, high unemployment, a sky-high suicide rate, and all the other trappings that go along with living on handouts.  Indian reservations bring all the joys of the inner city to the rural countryside, and for the exact same reason--welfare is toxic to its recipients.

I am Hawaiian and I will be the first to say that Hawaiians cannot agree to come together as a people much less a nation.  I will also add that I am extremely embarrassed by many who attempt to speak on behalf of the Hawaiian people. 

I would highly recommend visiting an Indian reservation before you start advocating for the same deal the Indians got.  Sure, they get free stuff from the government; but they also get chronic alcoholism, high unemployment, a sky-high suicide rate, and all the other trappings that go along with living on handouts.  Indian reservations bring all the joys of the inner city to the rural countryside, and for the exact same reason--welfare is toxic to its recipients.

Good point. I do not know everything about reservations. This also further illustrates the problem with sovereignty is much more than just getting your land back.

I am Hawaiian and I will be the first to say that Hawaiians cannot agree to come together as a people much less a nation.  I will also add that I am extremely embarrassed by many who attempt to speak on behalf of the Hawaiian people. 

My family and friends of Hawaiian ancestry have said the same thing. I think it's because the media always tries to find the most animated and outspoken people to put on TV.

Good point. I do not know everything about reservations. This also further illustrates the problem with sovereignty is much more than just getting your land back.
My family and friends of Hawaiian ancestry have said the same thing. I think it's because the media always tries to find the most animated and outspoken people to put on TV.

Here's what I think the sovereignty advocates should be pushing for: limitations on the federal government.  The individual states, including Hawaii, should be sovereign members of the federal government, instead of the subjects they've been turned into.  There's no need to become a new, sovereign nation if we as Americans could work to re-establish the states as robust entities who are represented, rather than ruled, by a federal government which works only to facilitate relations among the states and provide for the common defense.

I am Hawaiian and I will be the first to say that Hawaiians cannot agree to come together as a people much less a nation.  I will also add that I am extremely embarrassed by many who attempt to speak on behalf of the Hawaiian people.

Are you embarrassed for the people because of the lack of speaking skills or lack of knowledge of the subject?  Please elaborate.  If so maybe the movement can find better spokesmen with a little help. 

   From my perspective; there is a lack of education here in Hawaii with regard to how government is supposed to work and I am going to add some constructive comments that our basic school system here has failed our kids and that is partially the fault of the parents and a larger blame can be laid at the feet of the Democratic Party here in Hawaii.  A lot of people are not aware that the history of the Communist Party of Hawaii in the 1950's were involved a takeover of the Plantaion labor, local governments, and the school system and ultimatly some of those people became prominant members of the CURRENT Democratic Party.  ....Frank Marshall Davis was insrumental in promoting Marxism here in Hawaii and was one of Obama's biggest influences...... Flame Suit ON.

Are you embarrassed for the people because of the lack of speaking skills or lack of knowledge of the subject?  Please elaborate.  If so maybe the movement can find better spokesmen with a little help. 

   From my perspective; there is a lack of education here in Hawaii with regard to how government is supposed to work and I am going to add some constructive comments that our basic school system here has failed our kids and that is partially the fault of the parents and a larger blame can be laid at the feet of the Democratic Party here in Hawaii.  A lot of people are not aware that the history of the Communist Party of Hawaii in the 1950's were involved a takeover of the Plantaion labor, local governments, and the school system and ultimatly some of those people became prominant members of the CURRENT Democratic Party.  ....Frank Marshall Davis was insrumental in promoting Marxism here in Hawaii and was one of Obama's biggest influences...... Flame Suit ON.

Lol, you must be new here.  Pointing out Obama's brazen ties to CPUSA leadership won't get you flamed on this forum.

IMO this is one of those things that may sound like a good idea in theory but the reality is MUCH different.

This is based on my dealings with Hawaiian sovereignty groups in my previous job during Section 106 (Historic Preservation) issues in highway construction projects.  As noted previously, there is so much infighting that they never seem to be able to get a consensus on anything.  Some groups will oppose another group just out of spite, even if during conversations with each group individually, we found that they groups were actually in agreement.  Then there are the groups that are uncompromising to the point where it puts everything at a stalemate.  Even many of them conceed that is why as a group, nothing seems to get done. 

In many of the Section 106 processes, the preservation groups have the opportunity to include improvements that serve them.  When when they can not come to a consensus, they basically lose out on what they could have gained instead of fighting amonst themselves.  It was really frustrating to see their frustration with themselves and we could really do nothing to help them because they wouldn't help themselves. 

I lived in Washington State for 11 years and was around the Indian reservations often.  Yeah, it as for the casinos.  Anyways, let me tell you, I don't know if they really benefitted the native Americans that live there.  As mentioned previously.  Super high levels of chronic alcoholism and unemployment.  Every "pay day" the bingo halls and casinos are packed with the "locals" blowing all their money at the casinos.  Many of them talked about how they'd like to take things back "to the way they were".  That's something you'll hear from the Hawaiian sovereignty groups here.

Nothing new, really. The Ali'i fought with each other as a matter of course.   

Are you embarrassed for the people because of the lack of speaking skills or lack of knowledge of the subject?  Please elaborate.  If so maybe the movement can find better spokesmen with a little help.

I don't doubt that the movement has some smart and eloquent speakers in it. The problem is the media likes to put the "entertaining" ones on evening news. You know, loud, ranting, possibly drunk, holding up a sign, and shouting incoherent phrases.

Many of them talked about how they'd like to take things back "to the way they were".  That's something you'll hear from the Hawaiian sovereignty groups here.

Ya it's all just more pointless dreaming while they play on their touch screen phones and tablet devices. Most people don't know how to live off the land so this would be an instant fail.

I don't doubt that the movement has some smart and eloquent speakers in it. The problem is the media likes to put the "entertaining" ones on evening news. You know, loud, ranting, possibly drunk, holding up a sign, and shouting incoherent phrases.
Ya it's all just more pointless dreaming while they play on their touch screen phones and tablet devices. Most people don't know how to live off the land so this would be an instant fail.

If the movement could get it's Crap in one bag this terrotory could become one of the richest and well off on the planet.. So you lease back properties to the US Military in exchange for their bases here but uncouple from all the oher Socialist Federal garbage that goes with being part of the Union.  This state could be completly self sufficient based upon Military and tourism alone.... Just dreaming.

If the movement could get it's Crap in one bag this terrotory could become one of the richest and well off on the planet.. So you lease back properties to the US Military in exchange for their bases here but uncouple from all the oher Socialist Federal garbage that goes with being part of the Union.  This state could be completly self sufficient based upon Military and tourism alone.... Just dreaming.

I'm not so sure about that.  Hawaii is one of eleven states with more people on food stamps than working; I think if Hawaii were to leave the Union, it would quickly become the Philippines.  I think Hawaii is addicted to the socialist federal garbage, which is a damn shame. 

Ya it's all just more pointless dreaming while they play on their touch screen phones and tablet devices. Most people don't know how to live off the land so this would be an instant fail.

What was funny (strange funny, not ha-ha funny) was that the people who would come out to the community meetings for these projects would be the same families.  They would go on, an on, about how they didn't want ANY more development in west Maui.  That they wanted things "to go back to the way they were", but all of them worked in the hotels in Kaanapali and Kapalua?     They really don't think these through.  That's why I've also heard that many of the more respected members of the native Hawaiian community don't attend those meetings because they can't stand to hear the ignorance coming from many of the "younger generation" that are often vocal at those meetings. 

We met a few families that we needed to provide access to their land during construction and they were the real deal.  Living of the land and SUPER nice and humble.  Very welcoming to talk to us as long as we respected their space, which we always did.  In those cases, we were able to help them because they were not deadset on resisting everything.