Anyone have similar experiences?

I guess I consider myself lucky..  I've heard stories from friends of guys flagging ppl on both the pistol and rifle ranges, never seen that though.  WIth that said, almost every time I go I see ppl that don't know how to lock the bolt back manually when the RSO calls a cease fire.

My favorite is the guys with the flashlight lasers on their pistols that plow the berm in front of the target.

Hopefully just the fact that someone has a laser/light on their pistol doesn't classify them as a range ninja right?  I don't have one yet but when I do, I would like to practice with the device on the weapon to get used to the weight and handling.  I fully intend to hit the target but I am still a novice (and miss the paper occasionally) but, I thought that it would be a good thing to train with the light and/or laser on your pistol if you intend to use them for home defense? 

Hopefully just the fact that someone has a laser/light on their pistol doesn't classify them as a range ninja right?  I don't have one yet but when I do, I would like to practice with the device on the weapon to get used to the weight and handling.  I fully intend to hit the target but I am still a novice (and miss the paper occasionally) but, I thought that it would be a good thing to train with the light and/or laser on your pistol if you intend to use them for home defense? 

You're good.


When people start labeling certain type of shooters as this or that, they effectively weaken the 2a movement.

That's the problem with some gun owners in general.

If someone doesn't conform to their idea of what they believe someone should do then they're a "range ninja" or whatever else is the current insult to heap on a new shooter.

The gun gripes folks are old school. Nothing wrong with that.

There is a new school of gun owner that includes the range ninjas. Its largely fed by TV and movies, I think, but somewhere in the last couple decades everything sprouted rails and all manner of accessories to go on them. The new school of gun owner enjoys this and part of the fun of owning and using the firearm comes from what accessories to use.

Nothing wrong with that.

Range ninjas are people who take that waaaaaaaay too seriously. They mistake plentiful accessories with a capability. Or, worse, they are more concerned about how the weapons looks than how well it functions - possibly having little idea of how it functions at all. Its an easy trap to fall into especially if you don't have any old school folks in your life who can show you what a functional weapon is and how it is used. Lacking that... all you have is the movies. and video games.

There isn't anything wrong with that, either. It just is. And it irritates the old schoolers to no end.

Dont care as long as they point their weapons away from me.

Hopefully just the fact that someone has a laser/light on their pistol doesn't classify them as a range ninja right?  I don't have one yet but when I do, I would like to practice with the device on the weapon to get used to the weight and handling.  I fully intend to hit the target but I am still a novice (and miss the paper occasionally) but, I thought that it would be a good thing to train with the light and/or laser on your pistol if you intend to use them for home defense? 

The main purpose of the flashlight/laser concept is for low light conditions, target ID and precision shot placement. When used in daylight it only becomes a barrel weight with batteries.

Practice good marksmanship fundamentals and get a good zero with your defensive ammo of choice. Co-witness laser and iron sights at same distance.

If you use and indoor range the laser should be clearly visible withing 15 yards. If your use and outdoor range in daylight, then your laser is useless unless you have a highly  reflective target.

Closing your eyes and shooting is not a substitute for simulated lowlight conditions. Plowing the berm is usually caused by flinching due to anticipating recoil and muzzle blast, not the weight if the device.

We need all the help that we can get.... If someone needs flashlights, lasers, red dots etc, who cares.....

I'm the guy that likes to hear the blast from the gun I'm shooting, while at the same time missing the target all day.....

Buy, shoot, accessorize and do whatever you want... Whatever floats your boat.....

I know some people like that..... They don't understand that we're all raised differently..

We all have different likes..... We all buy firearms for different reasons...

Those guys and a lot of people probably don't wanna hear this, but I bought my first gun for a few reasons.....

1) Cool Factor.....(Yeah I said it!)
2) Cause I can......
3) Home protection.....


I hope I don't bump into more guys like this....... These guys suck

ps: Their defintition of Ninja is kinda twisted...

nin·ja  (nnj)
n. pl. ninja or nin·jas
"A member of a class of 14th-century Japanese mercenary agents who were trained in the martial arts and hired for covert operations such as assassination and sabotage."

I call those type of people Sifu or Sensei.....

By the way cool Mosin Nagant... I know people who wouldn't approve... Boat Floating is most important....

This type of behavior is comman in any hobby.

I see this within the car clubs/groups I am in as well. Posers, fan boys, turd polishers, wanna be's and never was.

I just laugh, it's their money and time.

By the way cool Mosin Nagant... I know people who wouldn't approve... Boat Floating is most important....
[/quote]

What's this about boat floating a Mosin Nagant? Is that like free floating? Cause I want mod!!! Hopefully its a quad rail so I can mount a light, VG, bipod, laser, red dot etc. It's gonna be a tacticool Mosin

The chances of any of use needing to use our weapons for defense is pretty slim, much less any kind of "tactical" situation. The amount of time and money we spend on stuff for the guns amounts to entertainment more than it does preparedness or tactical anything. Its fun and I like thinking about how to best be prepared for this and that, practicing with the firearms - dialing in quick reloads, tactical reloads, that kind of thing. But I have no illusions that it means I'll actually be prepared for a dire situation - just  a little less unprepared.

I know a number of guys who were active special forces. To a one their weapons (if they own any) are clean. Optics and lasers are the only additions, if any. When I asked why the answer is always the same: less stuff to catch on the brush or on your other gear if you need to present that rifle in a hurry. Lasers because ammo is heavy and it helps you not waste any, though they don't like that they require batteries and that you have to be more careful to not get them wet.

To each his own. The gun gripes guys are being crusty bastards about it, but the core of it is that inexperienced gun owners can have poor and unsafe manners. That's really what irritates people, not what they have hanging off their guns. But, being crusty bastards, they then criticize everything else they can about that person.

The main purpose of the flashlight/laser concept is for low light conditions, target ID and precision shot placement. When used in daylight it only becomes a barrel weight with batteries.

Practice good marksmanship fundamentals and get a good zero with your defensive ammo of choice. Co-witness laser and iron sights at same distance.

If you use and indoor range the laser should be clearly visible withing 15 yards. If your use and outdoor range in daylight, then your laser is useless unless you have a highly  reflective target.

Closing your eyes and shooting is not a substitute for simulated lowlight conditions. Plowing the berm is usually caused by flinching due to anticipating recoil and muzzle blast, not the weight if the device.

Teichi,

Agree with you on all points.  I am especially guilty of flinching, though not bad enough to hit the burm, ha ha.  I hope that I do not sound as if I am implying that any device or gizmo will replace technique and practice. 

However, I would like to give my fellow newbies the benifit of the doubt that they would know that a laser and flashlight won't be effective out in the bright sunshine.  I was speaking of just the general handling of the weapon.  Just as different ammo behaves differently, so does a heavier or lighter weapon.  Firing the weapon with the weight of the "stuff" on I think will be of some benifit when it comes time to use it at night or indoors. Small benifit indeed, definitely not saying it will make me a better shot but suddenly changing the weight of the weapon when I need it most could make me a worse shot than I already am.  Just my thinking... 

I'm kind of reminded about a guy that told me he wanted to go to scuba school, but didn't know how to swim. He figured that if he could breath underwater, he wouldn't need too.

There are different tactics and techniques for using lights and lasers dependent on the scenario.  You are allowed to add all the lights, lasers, comps, spikes, and doodads you like.

My advice is first learn to operate your weapon safely, then learn to shoot accurately, then you can add speed, scenarios, and fancy black ops gear. 

And always practice good shooting etiquette.

I'm kind of reminded about a guy that told me he wanted to go to scuba school, but didn't know how to swim. He figured that if he could breath underwater, he wouldn't need too.

There are different tactics and techniques for using lights and lasers dependent on the scenario.  You are allowed to add all the lights, lasers, comps, spikes, and doodads you like.

My advice is first learn to operate your weapon safely, then learn to shoot accurately, then you can add speed, scenarios, and fancy black ops gear. 

And always practice good shooting etiquette.

Wow, lights and lasers are "black ops" gear? Comparing normal people to a very stupid scuba student?  Piers Morgan, is that you?

You seem to have a persisting opinion that anyone with any kind of tactical attachement on their weapon is automatically using the it as a training crutch instead of practicing, is a disastrously poor shot, doesn't have range etiquette, is unwilling to practice... in other words, a range ninja???.  That smacks of elitism towards your fellow gun owners don't you think?  Is it even possible that people who have a practical-tactical attachment on their weapon could still have good etiquette, are trying very hard to increase their skill, will practice as much as time and money allows, and try their best to understand science behind their tools?  Is it also possible to do things concurrently?  Can't I have a pistol with a laser at the range (without using the actual laser, yes I know) to practice proper technique and etiquette while maintaining the total weight of the weapon?   If I ever have to use my firearm in self defense, my guess is that it will be in my home, at night and the lights will be off.  Are you suggesting that I should not even consider this scenario since I am a newbie?  Are you also suggesting that I should not use every advantage that I can, like a light or laser attachment, that will make hitting the bad guy easier?  I can't agree with that thought process.  . 

I am splitting hairs with this next point, I know but, the term "fancy black ops gear" sounds like you are trying to stigmatize tactical attachments, kind of like how some people use "assault weapon" and "military style weapon" to scare people away from the AR and AK.  Bad juju there.

Please note, if someone actually waves thier gun around at the range, never practices, ignores range etiquette then, by all means, let's call them "range ninjas".  It really has nothing to do with what weapon they have in their hand and even less with what they have attached to it.  I look at it this way - would I rather have A) an a-hole point his unadorned pistol at my head at the range or B) an a-hole point a pistol with a light at my head at the range?  Neither A nor B actually.  The flashlight just below the barrel I am looking down doesn't really make it any worse.

I think we all had to start somewhere.... No one pops outta the womb a Grand Master!

Some people I know also forgot where they came from....

Everyones gotta work from the bottom to get to the top....

I know that when "I think I'm good at something", I never forget where I came from....

Gotta love and encourage everyone in this hobby, sport or whatever we call this that we're in, or else we're just hypocrites....

I do agree with rustyeleio, careless people at the range (even after knowing the correct safety precautions) are stupid....

I really suggest that people actually read at my posts. Nowhere have I actually named anyone a "Range Ninja". I think that is a misnomer and insulting to real ninja.

 I just want to point out the lack of understanding, training errors and bad equipment choices that some people make when it comes to firearms marksmanship.

Am I an Elitist? No. I'm a nationally ranked competitor and distinguished in both Pistol and Rifle, a certified instructor for both USMC and Army. State Top Gun Champion in 2000. State
High Power Rifle Champion in 2004. Regional Combined Weapons Champion in 1999. The guns I used were off the rack military weapons except for the 2000 Top Gun which was pretty much the same guns used by all competitors. I'm just a good shooter that understands how to shoot good because I watch and listen to other good shooters.

If you want to find your own way to the bullseye. Cool.

I must say that learning the "basics" are a lot more work and involving than watching how people do it on Hawaii 5-0 The "range ninja" that irritates me are the ones that disrespect the ROs and range rules while they are doing mag dumps, drills etc. I have seen those with all kinds of attachments, not sure if they meant to hit the berm at the 25 yd line but they did it well.

Teichi, I apologize for misunderstanding and overreacting to the video and your first statement about range ninjas being typified by the use of lasers and flashlights on their weapons, thin skin I guess.  And I especially apologize about the Piers Morgan crack. though I hope it was at least a little funny.  I certainly was not making any judgment regarding your skill or qualifications as a marksman and I was in no way doubting your advice about flinching and developing proper skills instead of depending on any accessories, you are 100% correct and I agree fully.  Accessories will not make up for a lack of skill, sympatico!

This is not directed at you but to explain myself to everyone, it does get under my skin if someone makes a statement like "you can never hope to be a respectable marksman because youre gun looks different from mine".  I have always thought that good work ethic and proper training count more than what gun is used or what is hanging off of it.  Again, I am not justifying using the laser as a way to avoid training in basic marksmanship.  I don't even have an attachement so this was a principle thing.


...I still would like a light one day if I am forced to defend myself in the dark though.   sorry, I have a hard head.

P.S.  I do NOT look anything like the previous photo!