first off, so you all understand, i live RIGHT next to a graveyard and i'd often go shooting there away from the graves and whatnot. so yesterday i got cited for doing some shooting at a target standing against a brick wall of my own house and someone called the cops on me. i heard a siren as i was getting ready to go back in the house when suddenly a fucking cop is pointing his AR-15 at me screaming  . so i got threatened with arrest but just got a citation (thank god). so the ticket says

 "...and commit the offense of: REPLICA GUN"

they said it should've had an orange tip...PELLET GUNS DON'T HAVE ORANGE TIPS. anyway i'm just kind of worried i could lose my permit to acquire. also the pellet gun isn't mind and they took it as evidence. im hoping ill be able to get it back so i can return it to the owner. anyone have any first or second hand experience in such a situation?

first off, so you all understand, i live RIGHT next to a graveyard and i'd often go shooting there away from the graves and whatnot. so yesterday i got cited for doing some shooting at a target standing against a brick wall of my own house and someone called the cops on me. i heard a siren as i was getting ready to go back in the house when suddenly a fucking cop is pointing his AR-15 at me screaming  . so i got threatened with arrest but just got a citation (thank god). so the ticket says

 "...and commit the offense of: REPLICA GUN"

they said it should've had an orange tip...PELLET GUNS DON'T HAVE ORANGE TIPS. anyway i'm just kind of worried i could lose my permit to acquire. also the pellet gun isn't mind and they took it as evidence. im hoping ill be able to get it back so i can return it to the owner. anyone have any first or second hand experience in such a situation?

Were you in your yard shooting at a target in your yard (against the brick wall)?  OR
Were you in the graveyard shooting at a target in your yard?

.

yeah i was technically off my property. i know it was stupid, but ive never had a problem in the past doing so. will my permit be revoked???

Some links I found while looking for the law on the matter:
http://www.airsofthawaii.org/safety/laws.shtml


This appears to be the city ordinance that deals with pellet guns. Article 8, starts on page 6: http://www1.honolulu.gov/council/ocs/roh/rohchapter41a125.pdf

It is interesting to note that Sec. 9 points out that palm readers need permits. Wow.

I couldn't find the HRS section that deals with air guns before I ran out of time but I saw other references to all air guns being classified as "toy guns." If the all fall under the same classification then the orange tip deal probably applies to them.

Didn't specify what level of crime it was, but if its a "toy gun" it is unlikely to classify as a firearms related or violent crime and I'm pretty sure it won't be a felony... so your permit shouldn't be revoked. I'm not a lawyer, though.

Looks like it's just a petty misdemeanor.

http://archives.starbulletin.com/2003/08/14/news/story2.html

C&C of Honolulu Ordinance Chapt. 40 Article 23.1- 23.3  ( 40-23.1 to 23.3 )     

You should probably be OK.

But I am not a lawyer.

if its not a felony you should be ok.
but i'm not a lawyer either.

According to chapter 41 article 8 Air Guns
 Sec. 41-8.1 Definitions.
"Air gun" means any gun, rifle or pistol, by whatever name known, which is designed to expel a pellet or BB shot by the
action of compressed air or gas, or by the action of a spring or elastic but does not include any firearm.
"Dealer" means any person engaged in the business of selling or renting air guns. (Sec. 13-19.1, R.O. 1978 (1983 Ed.))

I don't see within the definition any reference to a "toy gun". Infact the article goes on to cite exceptions:
Sec. 41-8.4 Exceptions
(d) Used in or on any private parcel of land or residence under circumstances in which the air gun can be fired, discharged or
operated in such a manner as not to endanger persons or property and in such manner as to prevent the pellet or BB shot
from traversing any grounds or space outside the limits of such parcel of land or residence.
(e) Used in hunting or going to or from the place of hunting in accordance with law by a person who has obtained a hunting
license pursuant to HRS Chapter 183D or who, if such person is under 18 years of age, has obtained such a hunting license
and is accompanied by an adult who has obtained such hunting license.

Section 41 indicates very much the oposite with regard to an air gun being a toy as it cites hunting use. When was the last time you saw a toy gun used to effectively hunt?
I'd go to court and ask for the citation to be dismissed. It appears inappropriately applied in your case. Also note that "private property" is not described as the shoooters private property. Is the cemetary private property? From what you've described in the citation there's no grounds.

Just my opinion based on the information given and the law regarding air guns. I wouldn't lose any sleep over it and wait till you get to go to court to have it dismissed before letting take over anymore of your current thoughts.

According to chapter 41 article 8 Air Guns
 Sec. 41-8.1 Definitions.
"Air gun" means any gun, rifle or pistol, by whatever name known, which is designed to expel a pellet or BB shot by the
action of compressed air or gas, or by the action of a spring or elastic but does not include any firearm.
"Dealer" means any person engaged in the business of selling or renting air guns. (Sec. 13-19.1, R.O. 1978 (1983 Ed.))

I don't see within the definition any reference to a "toy gun". Infact the article goes on to cite exceptions:
Sec. 41-8.4 Exceptions
(d) Used in or on any private parcel of land or residence under circumstances in which the air gun can be fired, discharged or
operated in such a manner as not to endanger persons or property and in such manner as to prevent the pellet or BB shot
from traversing any grounds or space outside the limits of such parcel of land or residence.
(e) Used in hunting or going to or from the place of hunting in accordance with law by a person who has obtained a hunting
license pursuant to HRS Chapter 183D or who, if such person is under 18 years of age, has obtained such a hunting license
and is accompanied by an adult who has obtained such hunting license.

Section 41 indicates very much the oposite with regard to an air gun being a toy as it cites hunting use. When was the last time you saw a toy gun used to effectively hunt?
I'd go to court and ask for the citation to be dismissed. It appears inappropriately applied in your case. Also note that "private property" is not described as the shoooters private property. Is the cemetary private property? From what you've described in the citation there's no grounds.

Just my opinion based on the information given and the law regarding air guns. I wouldn't lose any sleep over it and wait till you get to go to court to have it dismissed before letting take over anymore of your current thoughts.

thank you all so much. this is very helpful. and yes the cemetery was a private cemetery, so its not like i was i was shooting in a public area or something. so on the citation it just states the offense as "Replica Gun" what the hell does that mean? pellet guns are in no way modeled after real firearms, at least mine wasn't.  so you think there wasn't grounds for the citation? how do you mean exactly? also how should i tackle this in court? i really want to get the pellet gun back to the owner. the cop that cited me said there is probably a fine and that the judge will determine amount. would i be able to work it off as community service?

i think all of this is just ridiculous. i dont have a car so what? am i supposed to catch the bus with my pellet rifle or even a real gun to koko head? out of courtesy i wouldn't take valuable bench time at the range with an air gun. are we even allowed to take public transportation carrying a rifle?

are we even allowed to take public transportation carrying a rifle?

Nope

thank you all so much. this is very helpful. and yes the cemetery was a private cemetery, so its not like i was i was shooting in a public area or something. so on the citation it just states the offense as "Replica Gun" what the hell does that mean? pellet guns are in no way modeled after real firearms, at least mine wasn't.  so you think there wasn't grounds for the citation? how do you mean exactly? also how should i tackle this in court? i really want to get the pellet gun back to the owner. the cop that cited me said there is probably a fine and that the judge will determine amount. would i be able to work it off as community service?

i think all of this is just ridiculous. i dont have a car so what? am i supposed to catch the bus with my pellet rifle or even a real gun to koko head? out of courtesy i wouldn't take valuable bench time at the range with an air gun. are we even allowed to take public transportation carrying a rifle?

Article 23 replica guns.
Sections:
40-23.1 Definitions.
40-23.2 Prohibitions.
40-23.3 Violation—Penalty.
Sec. 40-23.1 Definitions.
“Firearm” shall mean the same as it is defined in HRS Section 134-1.
“Law enforcement officer” shall mean any public servant, whether employed by the state, the city or the United
States, vested by law with a duty to maintain public order or to make arrests for offenses or to enforce the criminal laws,
whether that duty extends to all offenses or is limited to a specific class of offenses.
“Replica gun” shall mean any toy or other object which bears such a resemblance to an actual firearm that a
reasonable person would have difficulty visually distinguishing it from an actual firearm, and which lacks any feature or
aspect which would serve as a signal to allow a person to readily distinguish the replica gun from an actual firearm by sight.
The term shall not include an actual firearm.
(Added by Ord. 03-24)
Sec. 40-23.2 Prohibitions.
(a) No person shall carry or display a replica gun on any street, alley, public road, or on any public lands unless such
replica gun is in a suitable case or securely wrapped.
(b) No person shall draw or brandish a replica gun in the presence of a law enforcement officer engaged in the
performance of his or her duties.
(c) Nothing in this article shall be deemed to prevent any person who has obtained a hunting license pursuant to HRS
Chapter 183D from engaging in hunting in accordance with law.
(d) In the event a replica gun is also an “air gun,” as defined in Section 41-8.1, the exceptions in Section 41-8.4 shall
also be exceptions to the prohibitions in this article.
(e) Nothing in this article shall prevent carrying or display of a replica gun by a person involved in a living history
presentation or other activity for historical interpretation or educational purposes, or by a person participating in a
parade if such activity or parade participant is associated with an established historical organization, museum,
military preservation organization, or other group with a mission to educate the public at various events through the
use of historical artifacts, clothing, vehicles, aircraft, maritime vessels, and firearms or replicas thereof.
(Added by Ord. 03-24; Am. Ord. 03-35)
Sec. 40-23.3 Violation—Penalty.
Any person violating the provisions of Section 40-23.2(a) shall be deemed guilty of a petty misdemeanor and upon
conviction shall be punished by a fine not exceeding $500, or by imprisonment not exceeding 30 days.
Any person violating the provisions of Section 40-23.2(b) shall be deemed guilty of a misdemeanor and upon
conviction shall be punished by a fine not exceeding $1,000, or by imprisonment not exceeding one year.
(Added by Ord. 03-24)

Again... you were on private property thus replica guns do not apply, the cemetary is no more public property than a store is on public property displaying replica guns. Private property is not public property. Make a motion for the court to dismiss the citation based on the facts that you were on private property and observing the exceptions section of the air guns article while shooting in a safe manner. It doesn't sound to me as if your were at any time on public property or shooting irresponsibly. Sounds like the ticket is pure BS.  Smile, it's a BS ticket.

if your over 21 (which you have to be to buy a gun/get a permit to aquire a gun), you really should have known better then to step off your property with any type of gun which shoots anything (airsoft, bb, real gun, potato gun, what ever).  I hope this teachs you that ignorance does not free you from a crime and that you are lucky that cop didn't shoot you because with all the crazy stuff going on in the news, they probally scared and will shoot first and ask questions later.  Look at the LAPD which shot up that truck with asian women in it which was not the same color or make or licenses plate as the car they were looking for.  You actually had a gun in hand, I shiver to think what they could have done to you. 


Becareful and use common sense next time.  That and buy a real rifle (a .22lr is the same price or even cheaper then most bb guns, hell an aeg airsoft gun will run you 300-400 bucks while a .22lr rifle cost about 120-150 bucks) and go to the range, its much safer, more fun, and cheaper.

Here's 41.8 and needed to complete 40.23 with regard to exceptions. Read through the above 40.23 and then through 41.8 point by point and see if you've violated them. It doesn't sound like you have broken the law from what you've described.
Article 8. Air Guns
Sections:
41-8.1 Definitions.
41-8.2 Restrictions on sale, rental, gift or other transfer.
41-8.3 Restrictions on use.
41-8.4 Exceptions.
41-8.5 Seizure, forfeiture and disposal.
41-8.6 Violation--Penalty.
Sec. 41-8.1 Definitions.
"Air gun" means any gun, rifle or pistol, by whatever name known, which is designed to expel a pellet or BB shot by the
action of compressed air or gas, or by the action of a spring or elastic but does not include any firearm.
"Dealer" means any person engaged in the business of selling or renting air guns. (Sec. 13-19.1, R.O. 1978 (1983 Ed.))
Sec. 41-8.2 Restrictions on sale, rental, gift or other transfer.
(a) It is unlawful for any dealer to sell, lend, rent, give or otherwise transfer an air gun to any person under the age of 18 years
where the dealer knows or has reasonable cause to believe the person to be under 18 years of age or where the dealer has
failed to make reasonable inquiry relative to the age of such person and such person is under 18 years of age.
(b) It is unlawful for any person to sell, lend, rent, give or otherwise transfer any air gun to any person under 18 years of age,
except where the relationship of parent and child, guardian and ward, or adult instructor and pupil exists between such
person and the person under 18 years of age.
(Sec. 13-19.2, R.O. 1978 (1983 Ed.))
Sec. 41-8.3 Restrictions on use.
(a) It is unlawful for any person to carry or display an air gun on any street, alley, public road or on any public land, unless the
air gun is unloaded and in a suitable case or securely wrapped.
(b) It is unlawful for any person to discharge any air gun from or across any street, sidewalk, alley or public land, or any public
place except on a properly constructed target range.
(c) It is unlawful for any person to discharge any air gun on any private parcel of land or residence in such a manner that the
pellet or BB shot may reasonably be expected to traverse any ground or space outside the limits of such parcel of land or
residence or in such a manner that persons or property may be endangered; provided, that nothing in this article shall be
deemed to prevent any person who has obtained a hunting license pursuant to HRS Chapter 183D from engaging in
hunting in accordance with law.
(d) It is unlawful for any person to discharge any air gun in such a manner or under such circumstances that persons or
property may be endangered.
(Sec. 13-19.3, R.O. 1978 (1983 Ed.); Am. Ord. 96-58, 03-23)
Sec. 41-8.4 Exceptions.
Notwithstanding any provision of this article to the contrary, it shall be lawful for any person to possess an air gun if it is:
(a) Kept within such person's domicile.
(b) Used by a person under 18 years of age, who is a duly enrolled member of any club, team or society organized for
education or training purposes and maintaining as a part of its facilities or having written permission to use an indoor or
outdoor target range, when the air gun is used at such target range under the supervision, guidance and instruction of a
responsible adult.
(c) Used by a person 18 years of age or older at a properly constructed target range.
(d) Used in or on any private parcel of land or residence under circumstances in which the air gun can be fired, discharged or
operated in such a manner as not to endanger persons or property and in such manner as to prevent the pellet or BB shot
from traversing any grounds or space outside the limits of such parcel of land or residence.
(e) Used in hunting or going to or from the place of hunting in accordance with law by a person who has obtained a hunting
license pursuant to HRS Chapter 183D or who, if such person is under 18 years of age, has obtained such a hunting license
and is accompanied by an adult who has obtained such hunting license.
(f) Used by a person involved in a living history presentation or other activity for historical interpretation or educational
purposes, or by a person participating in a parade if such activity or parade participant is associated with an established historical
organization, museum, military preservation organization, or other group with a mission to educate the public at various events
through the use of historical artifacts, clothing, vehicles, aircraft, maritime vessels, and firearms or replicas thereof.
(Sec. 13-19.4, R.O. 1978 (1983 Ed.); Am. Ord. 96-58, 03-23, 03-35)
Sec. 41-8.5 Seizure, forfeiture and disposal.
Any police officer who arrests any person for possessing, using, lending, renting, giving or transferring an air gun in
violation of any provisions of this article shall take custody of such air gun. Upon conviction of such person the air gun so seized shall
be forfeited to the city. Any air gun so forfeited shall remain in the custody of the police department for one year and thereafter
destroyed; provided, that such air gun shall be retained for subsequent proceedings, both civil or criminal, and until any such action is
concluded, if any person desiring the use of such forfeited air gun as evidence files with the chief of police a written notice of an
intention to so use the air gun before the destruction date herein provided. (Sec. 13-19.5, R.O. 1978 (1983 Ed.))
Sec. 41-8.6 Violation--Penalty.
Any person violating any provision of this article shall, upon conviction, be punished by a fine not exceeding $500.00 or
imprisonment for a period not exceeding one year, or both. (Sec. 13-19.6, R.O. 1978 (1983 Ed.))

The intent of the legislation is to make sure air guns are not used on public property and to make sure replica guns are not displayed in public resulting in a possible shooting such as the one where the FBI agent shot a person waving an air soft gun about in public. What you were doing does not fall under the prohibitions or regulated intent of the legislation. Honolulu has clearly allowed people within the aformentioned laws to use air guns safely on private property and for hunting purposes.

Sliver... Your reply reminds me of democrap poopeganda.

I would just get one of those bb traps and shoot in the house lol

mykdebauch - are you over 18?
(b) It is unlawful for any person to sell, lend, rent, give or otherwise transfer any air gun to any person under 18 years of age,
except where the relationship of parent and child, guardian and ward, or adult instructor and pupil exists between such
person and the person under 18 years of age.
If you are under 18 and the air gun wasn't lent to you by one of the above then the person who lent the airgun to you is in violation of the statutes/articles or what ever they call it Honolulu - not you.

thank you all so much. this is very helpful. and yes the cemetery was a private cemetery, so its not like i was i was shooting in a public area or something. so on the citation it just states the offense as "Replica Gun" what the hell does that mean? pellet guns are in no way modeled after real firearms, at least mine wasn't.  so you think there wasn't grounds for the citation? how do you mean exactly? also how should i tackle this in court? i really want to get the pellet gun back to the owner. the cop that cited me said there is probably a fine and that the judge will determine amount. would i be able to work it off as community service?

i think all of this is just ridiculous. i dont have a car so what? am i supposed to catch the bus with my pellet rifle or even a real gun to koko head? out of courtesy i wouldn't take valuable bench time at the range with an air gun. are we even allowed to take public transportation carrying a rifle?

A privately owned cemetery can still considered public property...it just depends on it's use (by whom), but in your case, it's not your private property and probably didn't have permission. "Replica gun" is used to describe any air/spring powered gun or device designed to fire a projectile. So it doesn't matter if it's a 1:1 scale 1911 or a pink bunny that shoot's BB's, the citation would be the same. Basically you got a citation for being off your property with an air gun and, based on your explanation, it is valid. As for how you should approach it in court? Talk to the attorney on your court date. Honestly, getting the pellet gun back (which is very unlikely) should be the least of your worries...if you get off without a fine count yourself lucky and buy your friend a new one. And unless you were endangering others, it's very unlikely that you'd lose your permit over it.

It is a minor offense, but ridiculous or not you need to take it seriously and lack of transportation is no defense...Nothing says you have to go to Koko Head for an air gun. A cardboard box packed with newspaper in your enclosed yard would be enough to make an air rifle range.

Agreed with Colt808.  You need to understand the definition of "public" or "private" property as it applies to Hawaii law.  Then you need to determine if the cemetery actually fits into the "public" or "private" category according to the  law.  I have no issues with people shooting airsoft or BB guns when they are not hurting anyone, being reckless or destroying others property, however I would not get upset at the Officer showing up armed with an AR15 shouting out commands in response to this call.  He does not know the exact situation and must assume the weapon to be real until proven otherwise.  Also he could have just as easily arrested you but left you with a citation instead.  I might look into contesting the citation.  Hope things work out well.     

I find it funny you get a citation for an air gun, when an LEO gets shitfaced and lets off a few rounds in his yard, but keeps his job

Sliver... Your reply reminds me of democrap poopeganda.

how so?  by using your mind and common sense or the part about buying a real gun and stop futting around with a bb gun in a public area and almost getting shot by a cop which makes the rest of us look back?